It's time for Uncle Gopi to make yet another controversial topic. ("IM bait")

[Blaise Glendevon]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

You gave me a great idea for an opening line. "Hallo! Ich bin eine Banane!"

And no, I do not speak German.

You know, that would at least be novel. LOL.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

You know, that would at least be novel. LOL.

Maybe follow it up with something in German about "appealing".  Attempt to make bad puns in other languages using Google Translate.

 

[PheebyKatz]

One could always respond with the complete lyrics of the theme song from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, and decide based upon their response whether they were worth having an actual conversation with.

It'd be fun to try, anyway.

[Cinos Field]

A fair enough observation. Personally I find that most of those random IMs come from other women, though. Either calling me very cute, complimenting my outfits or seeing if they could be one of the extremely rare exceptions for smooches. They just barely beat out of the classic man-IM chain of:

- Hi, how are you?

- I'm good, thanks! You?

- Doing alright!

*silence*

[PekeNL]

I ran a little (petty) experiment a while back. A week long, a male alt was situated at a social venue (nightclub) and after every day of it being there, I chalked the amount of IM's. Then, I did the same with a female avatar. Both of them were there for around a week or so.

Conclusion: Female avatars do get a lot more IM traffic then male avatars. Even if they're essentially running the same profile information. It's important to note that the quality of said IM's on the male side was by miles better compared to the absolute thirst I got on the female avi. 

Like I said it was a petty experiment and I was a bit in a dark spot. Still the results are something I keep in the back on my mind still.

[Maitimo]

Its hard for me to judge now, as I gave up my male avatar 4 years ago (gosh, has it really been that long??) and even before that, he was so feminine-looking that guys still IMd me all the time, thinking I was a girl (apparently long hair is just about the only thing that counts).

I did get an unsolicited IM yesterday from a guy who was at the same venue as me; he started staight off by talking about one of the places in my picks, not even a "hi", and we had a nice chat for half an hour or so. Not once did he pressure me into anything at all - no request to dance, or add as a friend, or anything else. It was just a nice chat that meandered across a few different topics. 

But now that I think on it, thats the first unsolicited IM I've had in a while, even though I no longer have "Male in RL" all over my profile.

[PheebyKatz]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

I did get an unsolicited IM yesterday from a guy who was at the same venue as me; he started staight off by talking about one of the places in my picks, not even a "hi", and we had a nice chat for half an hour or so. Not once did he pressure me into anything at all - no request to dance, or add as a friend, or anything else. It was just a nice chat that meandered across a few different topics. 

I love it when that happens. Especially when I can tell from the start of the conversation that there's nothing icky about it. An actual good conversation out of the blue is such a rare treat.

[Bree Giffen]

Can a male avatar put in their profile something like, "Guess my real life eye color and I'll pay you 25L$" ? Would that be gambling? I think something like that might encourage people to speak with the male avatar. Whether they guess wrong or right it's still a conversation opener.

[Rat Luv]

10 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Can a male avatar put in their profile something like, "Guess my real life eye color and I'll pay you 25L$" ?

I would definitely IM and try my luck! 🤞 And then log an alt in...😈 (no, not really!)

I once had "If you see xxxx tell him he still owes me 20L" on my profile, and someone once IM'd and said "I guess you haven't seen him yet?" and then paid me 200L 🤑 

[JeromFranzic]

7 hours ago, PheebyKatz said:

I love it when that happens. Especially when I can tell from the start of the conversation that there's nothing icky about it. An actual good conversation out of the blue is such a rare treat.

That happened to me last year, shortly after I managed a decent look with the free Genus Strong head and Lucybody Atenea last summer. It was at Hypnotic beach, which no longer exists. I engaged in a random conversation with someone who was only a few days into SL. Nothing too weighty, we just talked about stuff on our minds. I remained in character as my SL self, not giving away anything from RL. 

[PheebyKatz]

21 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Can a male avatar put in their profile something like, "Guess my real life eye color and I'll pay you 25L$" ? Would that be gambling? I think something like that might encourage people to speak with the male avatar. Whether they guess wrong or right it's still a conversation opener.

If he wants to lure some ladies into turning the tables in the old random IMs game, he's gonna need more than 25L$. Try it with gift cards from hair and shoe vendors, or free fatpacks, and you'll have too many IMs to handle, I bet. There would soon be inworld groups dedicated to exploiting you, and you'd be as popular as fishing.

[Katherine Heartsong]

I guess while the topic is "baitey" I'll go ahead and say that from personal experience, hanging out with Kat and my rarely seen male alt, at the same formal-semi-formal dance places, I get IMs all the time as Kat and even with a similar profile, none or a rare one or two as my male alt.

The male me doesn't come across as a creep or aggressive or anything like that and dresses well, yet I almost never have ever gotten an out-of-the-blue IM from a woman. Maybe two total? I think there's still a feeling that the guy needs to initiate a conversation? I don't know why, and it's one reason I far prefer being Kat in world.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I guess while the topic is "baitey" I'll go ahead and say that from personal experience, hanging out with Kat and my rarely seen male alt, at the same formal-semi-formal dance places, I get IMs all the time as Kat and even with a similar profile, none or a rare one or two as my male alt.

The male me doesn't come across as a creep or aggressive or anything like that and dresses well, yet I almost never have ever gotten an out-of-the-blue IM from a woman. Maybe two total? I think there's still a feeling that the guy needs to initiate a conversation? I don't know why, and it's one reason I far prefer being Kat in world.

And herein there does lie a real social conundrum. My general sense (and it's entirely possible that others may have different experiences of course) is that these basic rules apply to gendered interactions with strangers in SL:

• Men are expected to be the ones who initiate contact with women. Women rarely make a "first approach" to men.
• Women are relatively much more likely to approach other women (for non-romantic or non-sexual reasons).
• Men almost never (or very rarely) contact other men; one result is apparently that men don't tend to have other men friends, or socialize as much with other men except in the social contexts which tend to include women (such as a group of regulars at a club).
• Women, on the other hand, are very "homosocial": we tend to have lots of other women friends, and sometimes even travel in packs. (And we're very dangerous when we do. 😉)

Now, again, there are going to be exceptions. I have lots of men friends, and in most cases those friendships were established without a view to romance or sex. But, it's also true that in, I think, every instance, it was the man who approached me first.

There is of course absolutely no reason why women shouldn't be initiating entirely non-romantic or non-sexual conversations with men. Or, for that matter, be responsible for sexual or romantic first approaches. And yet, I think (anecdotally) that, on the whole, they do not. I'm sure there are many women here who could say that they do, but my sense, at least within my own social milieus, is that these are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Generally speaking, I myself do not initiate conversations with men I don't know. Partly that's because I am actually oddly shy in-world (despite being very sociable), and almost never initiate contact with any strangers, male or female. But I also have the sense that there is a tendency to read, correctly or not, a first contact with someone of a different gender identity, as an attempt to "hook up." And I tend to think (rightly or wrongly) that if I approach a man out of the blue, he is going to assume that my interest is romantic or sexual.

I'm probably wrong in that assumption? Maybe? And it's also true that a lot depends on context: approaching someone at a gallery opening is different from doing so in a club.

But I'd be interested to hear from men, or those who represent as men -- what are your assumptions if a woman you don't know cold IMs you?

(I'd also be fascinated to know why men don't seem very often to socialize with other men in SL, given that this is not the case in RL. It's a subject I've broached here before, and I still don't really understand it.)

Edited October 24, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Ags Falconer]

12 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And herein there does lie a real social conundrum. My general sense (and it's entirely possible that others may have different experiences of course) is that these basic rules apply to gendered interactions with strangers in SL:

• Men are expected to be the ones who initiate contact with women. Women rarely make a "first approach" to men.
• Women are relatively much more likely to approach other women (for non-romantic or non-sexual reasons).
• Men almost never (or very rarely) contact other men; one result is apparently that men don't tend to have other men friends, or socialize as much with other men except in the social contexts which tend to include women (such as a group of regulars at a club).
• Women, on the other hand, are very "homosocial": we tend to have lots of other women friends, and sometimes even travel in packs. (And we're very dangerous when we do. 😉)

Now, again, there are going to be exceptions. I have lots of men friends, and in most cases those friendships were established without a view to romance or sex. But, it's also true that in, I think, every instance, it was the man who approached me first.

There is of course absolutely no reason why women shouldn't be initiating entirely non-romantic or non-sexual conversations with men. Or, for that matter, be responsible for sexual or romantic first approaches. And yet, I think (anecdotally) that, on the whole, they do not. I'm sure there are many women here who could say that they do, but my sense, at least within my own social milieus, is that these are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Generally speaking, I myself do not initiate conversations with men I don't know. Partly that's because I am actually oddly shy in-world (despite being very sociable), and almost never initiate contact with any strangers, male or female. But I also have the sense that there is a tendency to read, correctly or not, a first contact with someone of a different gender identity, as an attempt to "hook up." And I tend to think (rightly or wrongly) that if I approach a man out of the blue, he is going to assume that my interest is romantic or sexual.

I'm probably wrong in that assumption? Maybe? And it's also true that a lot depends on context: approaching someone at a gallery opening is different from doing so in a club.

But I'd be interested to hear from men, or those who represent as men -- what are your assumptions if a woman you don't know cold IMs you?

(I'd also be fascinated to know why men don't seem very often to socialize with other men in SL, given that this is not the case in RL. It's a subject I've broached here before, and I still don't really understand it.)

@Scylla Rhiadra, good questions.

Speaking as one who represents as male, I offer my data points to your study.

I rarely have been cold IMed by a woman. So I don't feel like i have a strong sense of my assumptions. I assume that many women are guarded IRL because it is simply a safer path. In SL, I would likely assume the person to be fairly new and looking for conversation or information.

Or perhaps she saw a fly in my fur.....and wanted to point it out.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Ags Falconer said:

In SL, I would likely assume the person to be fairly new and looking for conversation or information.

And that should be the correct assumption -- which is not to say that some women don't initiate because they are sexually interested, especially in regions or parcels which specialize in hook-ups. But I feel that very often your other assumption -- that "women are guarded IRL because it is simply a safer path" -- applies also somewhat to SL, with the difference that "safety" here means something very different than it does IRL.

7 minutes ago, Ags Falconer said:

Or perhaps she saw a fly in my fur.....and wanted to point it out.

Or maybe she was peckish?

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

I guess while the topic is "baitey"

You say "baitey", Matey, and I say.."Chum!"  

(Bait..Chum..Shark food..)

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And herein there does lie a real social conundrum. My general sense (and it's entirely possible that others may have different experiences of course) is that these basic rules apply to gendered interactions with strangers in SL:

• Men are expected to be the ones who initiate contact with women. Women rarely make a "first approach" to men.
• Women are relatively much more likely to approach other women (for non-romantic or non-sexual reasons).
• Men almost never (or very rarely) contact other men; one result is apparently that men don't tend to have other men friends, or socialize as much with other men except in the social contexts which tend to include women (such as a group of regulars at a club).
• Women, on the other hand, are very "homosocial": we tend to have lots of other women friends, and sometimes even travel in packs. (And we're very dangerous when we do. 😉)

Now, again, there are going to be exceptions. I have lots of men friends, and in most cases those friendships were established without a view to romance or sex. But, it's also true that in, I think, every instance, it was the man who approached me first.

There is of course absolutely no reason why women shouldn't be initiating entirely non-romantic or non-sexual conversations with men. Or, for that matter, be responsible for sexual or romantic first approaches. And yet, I think (anecdotally) that, on the whole, they do not. I'm sure there are many women here who could say that they do, but my sense, at least within my own social milieus, is that these are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Generally speaking, I myself do not initiate conversations with men I don't know. Partly that's because I am actually oddly shy in-world (despite being very sociable), and almost never initiate contact with any strangers, male or female. But I also have the sense that there is a tendency to read, correctly or not, a first contact with someone of a different gender identity, as an attempt to "hook up." And I tend to think (rightly or wrongly) that if I approach a man out of the blue, he is going to assume that my interest is romantic or sexual.

I'm probably wrong in that assumption? Maybe? And it's also true that a lot depends on context: approaching someone at a gallery opening is different from doing so in a club.

But I'd be interested to hear from men, or those who represent as men -- what are your assumptions if a woman you don't know cold IMs you?

(I'd also be fascinated to know why men don't seem very often to socialize with other men in SL, given that this is not the case in RL. It's a subject I've broached here before, and I still don't really understand it.)

So much to unpack here, Scylla. 

I appreciate when a guy initiates conversation, but I am also extra cautious when they do.  Not all of them are after friendship and conversation.  I put in effort to make myself approachable - friendly profile, generally dressed as a wallflower, superficially chatty in local to show I'm engaged in the moment.

I've had pretty good luck attracting potential male friends no matter who initiates.  This is where I am comfortable.   I have very few female friends in either life.  Women just don’t seem to like me much and I am uncomfortable in large groups of them.

A glance down my friends list confirms this.  The closest I came to a really accepting and mostly female group was back when The Ladies Who Lunch first started.

I agree the context of a meeting has a lot to do with initiating conversations. I meet a lot of people here in the forums and reach out pretty often inworld, but almost exclusively men unless i feel someonehas been treated in an unkind manner here.  Gender doesn't matter anymore then and ill reach out inworld.  I carefully initiate conversations in music clubs.  This is my own bias and I recognize it, but I like being around men 

Those large groups of women may be intimidating to men, but they are to me, too.

Oh, and the bigger a misfit someone appears to be, the MORE likely I am to reach out.  I don't like people feeling left out of activities because they don't fit someone's expectations and I invite them in or at least try to set them on a path of success.

Anyway, I do like when someone else initiates a connection. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

14 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I've had pretty good luck attracting potential male friends no matter who initiates.  This is where I am comfortable.   I have very few female friends in either life.  Women just don’t seem to like me much and I am uncomfortable in large groups of them.

Thanks, Cinn -- it's important to recognize that my generalizations are just that, generalizations, and moreover represent my own experience (and, so far as I have been able to discern, the experience of most of the women I know well in SL). (I have a difficult time believing that there is anyone who "doesn't like" you, though.)

19 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

This is my own bias and I recognize it, but I like being around men

I don't know that I feel more or less comfortable with my men or women friends. I feel different, perhaps: I'm likely to talk about different things in a way that is at least partially determined by gender, I think. And maybe my guard is less up around women, although that depends, of course, on the person too.

I do also like being around men, though. But in a way, they seem to serve a different social function for me than the women I know.

[Love Zhaoying]

40 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

Those large groups of women may be intimidating to men, but they are to me, too.

..and they all go to the bathroom together, and stuff! It's so weird!

[Paul Hexem]

On 10/24/2022 at 2:20 PM, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Men are expected to be the ones who initiate contact with women. Women rarely make a "first approach" to men.

Women that complain about the effort men put in to hit on them often forget this. It's true in dating in RL and SL. Men are constantly taking their shot and getting rejected or outright ignored.

Shogunning "hi" out to everything with a pulse is way more efficient and less discouraging than reading a whole profile, finding common interests, and crafting a clever line when the response will often be exactly the same as "hi".

And don't even get me started on the humble brag that is complaining about it to begin with...

[Cali Souther]

On 10/21/2022 at 5:44 PM, Gopi Passiflora said:

Yes, it's me again, with the topics that everyone hates. But try to forgive me, because it came to my mind again after recent experiences that happen time and time again. And I just want to vent, is all.

I will just say this: Woman avatars are basically "IM bait". If you have a woman avatar, you'll get way more IMs from strangers than other kinds of avatars will.

I'm not saying this to disparage anyone who has a woman avatar; I have one too and I like them. But this is just an observation I see time and time again while I'm playing as those avatars.

I am usually in SL as a pretty hot female avatar....  I don't get very many unsolicited IMs ....   (shrugs)......    I get more when I go in as a cat,  or a unicorn,  or a lion..........  etc.    

Just another dolled up female isn't much of a draw it seems.  😉 

[PheebyKatz]

12 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

Shogunning "hi" out to everything with a pulse is way more efficient and less discouraging than reading a whole profile, finding common interests, and crafting a clever line when the response will often be exactly the same as "hi".

This is a very valid point. I'm starting to wonder just how much of people's problems come from a lack of empathy, like not even considering what it's like for the other person in whatever interaction they find to be annoying. I'm sure a lot of guys who aren't even trying to pick anyone up, but are just hoping for a good conversation, get tired of being treated like they're some predator on the make, just because people are influenced in the present by their past experiences, and seeing a "hi" out of nowhere presses their cringe button.

I don't date, so I know how it is to get IMs from guys and instantly cringe because they might be trying to talk me into something I don't want. But I've also hurt very nice people's feelings before by responding poorly right out of the gate, without even looking to see their profile first. Imagine how foolish I felt the time I lashed out, only to discover it was a nice gay man who had questions about the sim I was on, and figured (correctly) that I was a longtimer there, and a good person to ask. His entire profile was full of stuff about how he wasn't looking for anything with the opposite sex, and I responded  to him like he was creeping on me.

I was really embarrassed by that one. It also reminded me I'm not the only person in the world who has feelings that should be respected.

Maybe we can all simply allow ourselves to be a little less sensitive in bad ways, and a little more sensitive in good ways, seeing as we inhabit a space where if someone does turn out to be a creep, we never have to see them again (block button for the win), and they can't even do anything to us, anyway. Hey, guess what, everybody! It's safe to talk to people!

Come to think of it, not even giving people a chance because they're not targeting you specifically but are just fishing for conversation is just as bad as assuming it's not worth your time to type more than "hi" because you'll probably be ignored anyway. It's both sides doing it, and for the same reason. Because others expect their feelings to be cared for from the word "go" but won't reciprocate that sentiment and set the same example for others. It's always "you go first!" like when we were six and a half years old.

Like people who insist others must earn their respect, etc., but who act like jerks to everyone. I think we all are guilty of this, at least to some degree. It's called being self-centered. And it sucks.

Edited October 26, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Cali Souther]

On 10/24/2022 at 11:37 AM, Ags Falconer said:

Or perhaps she saw a fly in my fur.....and wanted to point it out.

 

hahahahahaha!!!    Thank you for that,  I've really had one of those days and that made me literally laugh out loud.  🤣👍

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

1 hour ago, PheebyKatz said:

I'm starting to wonder just how much of people's problems come from a lack of empathy

 

1 hour ago, PheebyKatz said:

hurt very nice people's feelings before by responding poorly right out of the gate

 

1 hour ago, PheebyKatz said:

Because others expect their feelings to be cared for from the word "go" but won't reciprocate that sentiment and set the same example for others.

These are common inworld AND here in the forums.  Thank you for saying it.  The people who need to hear it most will convince themselves that it is not them, but everyone else who needs to be nicer.

[Gopi Passiflora]

A few recent responses in this topic are enlightening, and while it's cliche for me to say this, I apologize for complaining about the IMs. While I find it is still frustrating to get them out of the blue, I also sometimes don't think about what the other person feels and care only about my self-interest. Again, I was selfish without thinking about it.