Premium Plus and Linden Homes

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Tary Allen said:

It is not an IF, it was said at the web group meeting, new region types, new home types. The new region types is what leads me to think it will be not mainland. 

 

One could hope "new region types" is stuff like prim bonus, "event" (better/faster server) regions, regions where you can put your own rezzed home, etc. etc.

[Tary Allen]

@Love Zhaoying well, if they are event regions Plus will be super-expensive

 

I just wish for 2048 land and a little lower than 2 premiums so that I can keep mainland and a LH without paying more tier monthly like I do now.

[Alwin Alcott]

35 minutes ago, Tary Allen said:

I just wish for 2048 land and a little lower than 2 premiums so that I can keep mainland and a LH without paying more tier monthly like I do now.

but if double tier is the only reason,  its with a nearly double premium cost, still cheaper to tier up with 1024 = 7 usd a month.
Other perks will have to be super exciting and special to jump in for that only.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Alwin Alcott

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

but if double tier is the only reason its with a nearly double premium cost, still cheaper to tier up with 1024 = 7 usd a month.
Other perks will have to be super exciting and special to jump in for that only.

Maybe they will make it, so that there is less incentive to have multiple Premium alts to get combined group land bonus.

I wonder how people would feel about that..

[Tary Allen]

@Alwin Alcott  My VAT is 23%, as I'm paying with a CC there is also a little tax on that, in the end it is only a little bit cheaper, but it is not guaranteed that plus will be cheaper than double premium. 

As I see it I have 2 options, maintain 2 premium regular accounts or only one Plus, I hate the monthly payment so I have to get rid of it, just waiting for prices to decide

 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Tary Allen

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

6 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Why would I pay for PP now because it is benefits coming "in the future"? That can be years!

😕

 

My first thought as well! Why in the world would I sign up to pay more for some vague something that may or may not happen someday? I wouldn't do that in RL, and I won't do it here. 

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, Matthieu Quander said:

I know that a tier increase is a draw for many, but unless it means that I can claim multiple Linden Homes, it is of no value to me.  I have no interest in mainland, and it has always bothered me that if I claim a 512 home, that my remaining 512 of tier is wasted.  I want to be able to use all of my tier on Linden homes in any combination that allows me to use all of it.  

I don't care about groups, and I don't even fill all of the available slots I have now. 

While I can spend quite a bit on uploads from time to time, it is so sporadic, that I don't see that as much of an enticement either. 

Some of the future benefits might be interesting, but until they actually happen, I would not be very excited about paying for them. 

In short, the stipend increase is going to have to be very generous to sway me.  

I agree about groups and uploads, it is not important for me either, but I am not so very interested in LHomes and not multiple homes. So we are different. I said the opposite in 2019, "I am keeping my LHome for ever"! I can look back and laugh.

I am interested in as much land/Li free for tier as possible. Because I pay 25% VAT on tier. I want to play on a Sakura now, but it is not so high priority. And spread out on 371 Li here, 371 Li there is not so fun.

And as of today, I can pay annually for Premium without VAT*. I wonder what happens with Plus. 25% added on top of all subscriptions to Premium and Premium Plus will reduce the money I save on it instead of renting. Ugh, land cost so much.

So that's me. It is hard to find things that all agree on besides bigger stipend! All of us want that, right?

*Edit to add: LL must pay VAT for us, or maybe call it something different so it is not counted as virtual goods.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Marianne Little

[diamond Marchant]

What, Me Worry?

If the anticipated features of Premium Plus materialize, it will be a price reduction and value enhancer for weirdos like us. See this post for the numbers. However, the fundamental nature of SL will remain the same.

So WHY are they doing this? We can only guess, but I think they want to hold on to the existing users that actually show up on a regular basis. Don't want that needle moving down. Tilia needs transactions for the GDP.

<digression> I watched the Reed Linden Web User Group video. Interesting. What I got out of it is that he really needed a vacation in May, is working hard on getting the Premium Plus web infrastructure built, doesn't want to answer any PP questions (but then says a bunch of stuff), and thinks if we "yell" at anybody it should be Patch and Grumpity. Drama in River City? </digression>

[diamond Marchant]

On 5/15/2022 at 12:34 PM, Innula Zenovka said:

People pay what they're prepared to pay, whether or not there's any rational basis for it.

Richard Thaler won  a  Nobel Prize for writing about things like that 🙂

Edited June 3, 2022 by diamond Marchant
yet more typos

[Teresa Firelight]

Actually I am looking forward to getting the details on premium plus. It sounds like a lot of the people in this group care primarily about things pertaining directly to Linden Homes (which makes sense given this is the "Linden Homes" forum), and dont find the extra features attractive.

But there are people out there (myself, for example) who are actually very interested in features like Additional Groups, a bigger land allowance (because I own a Horizons parcel or two), cheaper upload fees (I do a lot of work that needs to be uploaded, like textures for builds and/or ads, etc). Also I cant say that I would object to a bigger weekly $L allowance.

I have to admit that I am disappointed that the details were not released in May (as originally promised) but look forward to hearing them come SL19B.

Edited June 3, 2022 by Teresa Firelight
added missing paren

[Marianne Little]

10 hours ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Actually I am looking forward to getting the details on premium plus. It sounds like a lot of the people in this group care primarily about things pertaining directly to Linden Homes (which makes sense given this is the "Linden Homes" forum), and dont find the extra features attractive.

But there are people out there (myself, for example) who are actually very interested in features like Additional Groups, a bigger land allowance (because I own a Horizons parcel or two), cheaper upload fees (I do a lot of work that needs to be uploaded, like textures for builds and/or ads, etc). Also I cant say that I would object to a bigger weekly $L allowance.

I have to admit that I am disappointed that the details were not released in May (as originally promised) but look forward to hearing them come SL19B.

Oh, I am very interested in the land allowance too. I rent 4098 m on the Mainland, and I will calculate if it is cheaper to set me and an alt on PP. If it is 2028 m land allowance as most of us think it will be. The Linden Homes are more a novelty for me now, grab a new style to play with.

Before I jump on PP, I will have to ask the guy I rent from if he will sell to me. If he set a very high price for my corner plot with sea to the south and west, I must decide if I will pay so much. So many decisions. I have always turned up my nose to abandoned land in the middle of nowhere, but will I change my mind...? Saving money is very important now, and I simply love to have enough Li to decorate with. Shall I wave goodbye to SL water that I love and move up in the sky with some artificial water? What will win, frugality or Linden water?

I must also look at the size of the stipend. I buy §L every month anyway, so I can't pretend that I will save up the stipend. I will need to buy less lindens for my shopping.

Texture uploads is a nice little perk. But it is way back in my calculations. I am annoyed that LL first promised us to unveil PP details in May, then walked it back. But soon we will know.

Edited June 4, 2022 by Marianne Little
spelling

[Bren Kenin]

I think one big advantage to add to Plus would be the ability to change your group name. I've known may stores over the years who have re-branded, re-named, etc. It would be wonderful to be able to change your current store groups to reflect the new name of your store. No hassle to make a new group and get group members to move over. Obviously, same rules apply, the name can't be taken. I think this feature and the added group would be the two features I'd be most excited about. 

[Sparkely Sugar]

More groups is a welcome addition, I am constantly having to leave to make room for others. I would love to see the ability to have two LH's on one account, but even more I would like a higher prim allowance as an option for LH. They can obviously do this as we have regions in Horizons and other areas with a double prim allowance.

Group name change would also be an amazing feature, the thought of closing and restarting a new store group is daunting. The ability to change your name as part of PP. would also be of interest, along with increased stipend.

Most important to me of all these things would be inventory back up. It is my understanding that are inventory could be backed in a small file on the amazon server. This is supremely important to me, and would be one thing that would guarantee me getting PP.

[Abnor Mole]

2 hours ago, Sparkely Sugar said:

I would like a higher prim allowance as an option for LH. They can obviously do this as we have regions in Horizons and other areas with a double prim allowance.

It was only possible in Horizons and other places because they were designed from the outset to be "double prim" using Object Bonus.

Object Bonus: A region-wide multiplier for the number of prims allowed on parcels in the region. May be between 1.0 (the default) and 10.0. For example, at 1.0 a 512m2 parcel is allowed 175 objects. Set at 2.0, a 512m2 parcel is allowed 351, or (roughly) twice as many, and so on. The maximum number of prims per per region is 22,500, regardless of the object bonus.

So Object Bonus does not actually "give" more LI.  It allows the LI of the main parcel to able to be used by the resident parcels. It raises the max limit allowed on the parcels in the region, but the region as a whole still only supports the original limit.  And, once the region reaches its limit, nothing more can be rezzed on the region even if at the the parcel level it shows there is more LI available. (i.e. the region can be full even if the parcels are supposedly not.)

So why can't we do that in Linden Homes like we did in Horizons? In Horizons there is very little content in large areas of the main parcel land there. It is left mostly barren with water and very low LI content. In Linden Homes the LI of the main parcel is instead used for all the decorative content along with the much more LI costly houses than the ones provided in Horizons. So it isn't available for use by the resident parcels via Object Bonus. The method used for making parcels in Horizons "double prim" cannot be used to raise just the limit of individual parcels (in fact I don't think any method can do that) and to try and do that in an existing Linden homes region would break pretty much everything. "Double primming" a region has to be planned for from the beginning when the region is being made because it affects everything else in how that region can be made.

And before anyone says it... even if we left nothing else on the region the LI of the houses alone is enough to prevent an even otherwise totally empty region from being able to be double prim via object bonus.

24 (parcels in a region) x 351 (LI) X 2 = 16848
22,500 (Max LI on a region) - 16848 = 5652 (Max LI we can use everywhere else no matter what the parcel limit says)
24 x 250 (Max LI of a house) = 6000
6000 > 5652

It may seem obvious that we can make parcels with a higher prim limit, and we can... but it's not that simple. The not so simple part isn't as obvious.

[Teresa Firelight]

well tomorrow is Meet the Lindens with Patch. I am hoping that this will be the day that they give details and let us purchase Premium Plus.. but it could possibly come later in the meet the moles series.

TBH, I don't know if Premium Plus is for me or not. I suspect it might be, but I am not sure. I need to hear the details to decide. But I am hopeful....

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

52 minutes ago, Teresa Firelight said:

well tomorrow is Meet the Lindens with Patch. I am hoping that this will be the day that they give details and let us purchase Premium Plus.. but it could possibly come later in the meet the moles series.

Possibly on Thursday with Grumpity.  She is VP of Product and I think the Premium packages fall under her rule.

[Eirynne Sieyes]

On 6/6/2022 at 2:47 AM, Abnor Mole said:

It was only possible in Horizons and other places because they were designed from the outset to be "double prim" using Object Bonus.

Object Bonus: A region-wide multiplier for the number of prims allowed on parcels in the region. May be between 1.0 (the default) and 10.0. For example, at 1.0 a 512m2 parcel is allowed 175 objects. Set at 2.0, a 512m2 parcel is allowed 351, or (roughly) twice as many, and so on. The maximum number of prims per per region is 22,500, regardless of the object bonus.

So Object Bonus does not actually "give" more LI.  It allows the LI of the main parcel to able to be used by the resident parcels. It raises the max limit allowed on the parcels in the region, but the region as a whole still only supports the original limit.  And, once the region reaches its limit, nothing more can be rezzed on the region even if at the the parcel level it shows there is more LI available. (i.e. the region can be full even if the parcels are supposedly not.)

So why can't we do that in Linden Homes like we did in Horizons? In Horizons there is very little content in large areas of the main parcel land there. It is left mostly barren with water and very low LI content. In Linden Homes the LI of the main parcel is instead used for all the decorative content along with the much more LI costly houses than the ones provided in Horizons. So it isn't available for use by the resident parcels via Object Bonus. The method used for making parcels in Horizons "double prim" cannot be used to raise just the limit of individual parcels (in fact I don't think any method can do that) and to try and do that in an existing Linden homes region would break pretty much everything. "Double primming" a region has to be planned for from the beginning when the region is being made because it affects everything else in how that region can be made.

And before anyone says it... even if we left nothing else on the region the LI of the houses alone is enough to prevent an even otherwise totally empty region from being able to be double prim via object bonus.

24 (parcels in a region) x 351 (LI) X 2 = 16848
22,500 (Max LI on a region) - 16848 = 5652 (Max LI we can use everywhere else no matter what the parcel limit says)
24 x 250 (Max LI of a house) = 6000
6000 > 5652

It may seem obvious that we can make parcels with a higher prim limit, and we can... but it's not that simple. The not so simple part isn't as obvious.

Not to beat this to death; this is a rhetorical question: Linden Homes are on "normal" 20,000 Li sims. I wonder what would happen if the content got plopped down onto one the simulators that support 30,000 Li. Or, better yet, one of the amazing new chips that can hold 60,000 Li along with a ton of avatars?

Premium plus... Hmmm...

[LittleMe Jewell]

[Betth Ashbourne]

Some information of interest from Patch's Meet the Lindens today :

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Betth Ashbourne

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

In case anyone is interested, there are a couple of lively threads discussing the topic over in General Discussion. 

[Aria Aurelia]

Thanks for the video share.  I found it highly informative and to the point.  I can now upgrade to premium plus when its offered without having to be looking for more information.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Aria Aurelia

[Trinity Blakewell]

Oh my gosh, I’m so disappointed. I can see that it will be a good deal for creators. But for those of us who were may be interested in extra perks for not double the price or more it’s a big disappointment.  If  they really are targeting creators versus consumers, I wonder why they would be moving forward with the 2048 homes

Edited June 21, 2022 by Trinity1776

[yestothis]

The ability to pick a Linden Home is intriguing, but I would just rather bid for it auction-style. I don't like submitting a ticket and then waiting to see if I won or not.

[Prokofy Neva]

So one thing Patch mentioned as a feature of Premium Plus that wasn't covered in the "General" thread is that you will be able to *pick your own Linden home*.

There seemed to be some caveats there -- not just any lot, and it seems the automated system will be working on some areas, possibly the very newest, and you will only be able to put in requests to Support for older areas.

But what it means is that groups of people can pick homes next to each other and make neighbourhoods like in The Sims Online, and the cliquishness of Bellisseria will only increase, but possibly it will enable non-FIC cliques then to emerge in competition.

[Teresa Firelight]

I have to say that I am hugely disappointed at the price for the given set of features. [It might have been less upsetting/startling if another Linden had not publicly told us to expect the price to be double regular premium -- or under $200 a year. That extra $50 USD a year has drained away my enthusiasm for the product.]

It is just too expensive for what they offer.

Maybe my feelings will change when  I see 2048 Linden homes.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Teresa Firelight