New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Styxx Starchild]

5 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

This is good and fair...this rules could be implemented and adapted into the new rules for the conveyor belt as well

They probably should be updated to a rarity of 20%, but overall that's what we have now. As for adapting the rules to the conveyer belt, the other big issue with this "new" process is that it is likely to be banned too. Creators pushing for this system are just trying to put a Band-Aid on their income-hit. We'll be right back at square one, with people attempting to find work-arounds only for them to be highly likely to be considered illegal later. The biggest issue is that creators need to go back to their old ways and let this die with dignity and be thankful gachas were allowed for far longer than they should have been.

Edited August 6, 2021 by xAmbiguityx

[Faly Breen]

25 minutes ago, Angelina Sinclair said:

No laws would bother with this given there is zero monetary value with the game's products.

hold it. people can use prize giver-boxes and use this system and put the droprates of the items people could cast for extremly low and the rarety extremly high - yes prize boxes are a thing you can set up within the 7seas system so about that.

25 minutes ago, Angelina Sinclair said:

Trading cards

• Pay cash to receive a random set of cards.
• Rarity and market value varies depending on brand and poularity
• Original sellers are big cooperations and rarity of cards is regulated by laws.
• Some have actual game elements (Pokemon, Yugioh, Magic the gathering, etc)
• Rare cards are not needed to play the game and sometimes not compete but do help.

well i wouldnt call  people in sl which sell such cards grown big. i know some which sell them for, again, like 5-25L$ and never saw them on the marketplace, again they got traded between the people but really selling those? not really. In RL of course thats a different story where rare cards can coz thousends of real life dollars...

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Faly Breen

[Stella Davros]

6 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

They probably should be updated to a rarity of 20%, but overall that's what we have now. As for adapting the rules to the conveyer belt, the other big issue with this "new" process is that it is likely to be banned too. Creators pushing for this system are just trying to put a Band-Aid on their income-hit. We'll be right back at square one, with people attempting to find work-arounds only for them to be highly likely to be considered illegal later. The biggest issue is that creators need to go back to their old ways and let this die with dignity and be thankful gachas were allowed for far longer than they should have been.

Morally u have absolutely right....but if everybody think about that will be no business in any platforms, there is no addiction only in gachas,  there is addiction in all here in SL, people don t buy food cause they have to run to buy new head or body or go to an event ..... the sadly truth is that here there is companies,  creators,small business, that want to get money!! and gachas, event, shops, no devil,  excetera are just other ways to get money and this will never stop , so it s not only gacha the problem , after u see people running for buy the lelutka head because is hd pro or even don t sleep for have the priority for join in an event , there is people who like play gachas and this must to be respected from the others and not to judge the people like junkies or whatever , if someone don t like this kind of game ? Cool there is plenty of shops or events where someone can go.....this is my opinion in general , and if someone find the solution why instead to put s**t over we could find the way for make all this working good for creators , buyers, reseller?? As i said before your words have sense and logick 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Stella Davros said:

Cheaper? Wholesale u will never buy 1 piece that u want but u have to buy stock dear

If you're buying gacha with the expectation that you'll sell off duplicates or items you don't want you're already buying wholesale; you're just doing it with your eyes closed.

I think a good solution to keep resellers happy would be for the ex-gacha merchants to sell bundles of NC/T items that the resellers could sell individually.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Theresa Tennyson

[Styxx Starchild]

17 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

Morally u have absolutely right....but if everybody think about that will be no business in any platforms, there is no addiction only in gachas,  there is addiction in all here in SL, people don t buy food cause they have to run to buy new head or body or go to an event ..... the sadly truth is that here there is companies,  creators,small business, that want to get money!! and gachas, event, shops, no devil,  excetera are just other ways to get money and this will never stop , so it s not only gacha the problem , after u see people running for buy the lelutka head because is hd pro or even don t sleep for have the priority for join in an event , there is people who like play gachas and this must to be respected from the others and not to judge the people like junkies or whatever , if someone don t like this kind of game ? Cool there is plenty of shops or events where someone can go.....this is my opinion in general , and if someone find the solution why instead to put s**t over we could find the way for make all this working good for creators , buyers, reseller?? As i said before your words have sense and logick 

The issue is there are plenty of opportunities to make sales without being predatory. Bottom line is Gachas/Conveyer Systems or any system that is designed to directly create a dopamine response to addictive levels should be regulated. There is also a vast difference to being addicted to gambling and being addicted to playing a game versus a game/system that is  directly designed to predate on people. Second Life wasn't created to continuously produce dopamine based on random factors to squeeze the most money out of people. Second Life was designed as a creative and open world experience to meet and develop relationships. Second Life first and foremost will always be place of social hijinks and creativity. 

In Summary: The design/structure of the environment or influencing factor is the mindset behind it. Gachas and the conveyer belt system and/or any other systems that are designed to recreate a gambling are predatory.  They are predator because their intent is to maximize profits and user spending, they are not made with any other intent aside from producing a cashflow and taking advantage of those who may have an addiction or are more compulsive than others.

Edited August 6, 2021 by xAmbiguityx

[Theresa Tennyson]

57 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

ok, make a sample which involves that without breaking the gacha law of LL now which still involves the random fun of buying booster packs with random cards in it and we are golden.

Also small edit:

You do know people which create such cards wanna earn at least a bit of money right? Im not talking about "100L$ for a random card", the prices are so minimal like maybe 5-25L$ for a random card, noone can complain about that tbh.

i think transferable is the literal meaning of trading. if you cant transfer items than you cant trade them as well.

 

I mean, ok, if (and i duno if this would break the new gacha law) such cards would be sold no-trans but still can be sold random, guess what other gacha creators have to do now...

A lot of real-world trading cards are used to play some sort of game in which rarer cards have more power. Sell the game mechanics, which is the same for everyone, and give away the random, transferrable cards. MadPea often runs games with a similar system - you buy a HUD and then go hunting all over the grid for free-to-you items to go forward in the game.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Theresa Tennyson

[Angelina Sinclair]

1 minute ago, Faly Breen said:

hold it. people can use prize giver-boxes and use this system and put the droprates of the items people could cast for extremly low and the rarety extremly high - yes prize boxes are a thing you can set up within the 7seas system so about that.

 

It is going to have to reach the levels of LL and governments noticing. Even so the success of this will be near impossible.

To fish with 7seas you must pay the vendor for bait and it is like 30L for 100 bait. You can even buy more bait if you spend more cash. 600 bait for 150L or 2400 bait for 600L.

Then you must consider the amount of time it takes to use up all that bait. Then finally the amount said 3rd party seller with prize boxes will make per bait sale. You make 20% per sale on YOUR vendor. So a savy person could make an alt account, buy the 7seas system, buy with their main to fill up on bait, then repay themselves the 20% discount and just go fishing at your Fishing spot for those extremely rare prizes.

It's been a while since I played this but I am pretty sure there's no way to enforce someone to buy bait from your vendor only to play the game and win your prizes. Also I don't think there is a way to require a certain amount must be spent on the commission vendor you put out. So a person who wins the ultra rare goodie might've not spent a dime on your vendor and walked away happy.

That is great for customers but utterly terrible for business.

 

[Stella Davros]

3 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

. Second Life was designed as a creative and open world experience to meet and develop relationships. Second Life first and foremost will always be place of social hijinks and creativity

Yes, where for be cool in secondlife you have to pay a lot of money for everything cause for example if you try to go into one land with a noob avatar even they will not let you enter....i repeat once again you have right because you described the spirit of SL but is not what happen for real 

[Komarimono]

3 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

Yes, where for be cool in secondlife you have to pay a lot of money for everything cause for example if you try to go into one land with a noob avatar even they will not let you enter....i repeat once again you have right because you described the spirit of SL but is not what happen for real 

Not true.  I mostly play on RP sims, and I am told I make wonderful and unique avatars for what I do, due to modding etc.  But not once have I turned down a "noob avatar"  If anything, I've helped them.  Anyone remember freenises?  I do!  Know how many Aeros I have gifted on this account alone due to them back then?  More then most would spend in a year in SL.

Noob avatars, generally are not as frowned upon as people claim.  Attitude and actions, are what most of us roleplayers judge you on.  Yes, appearances add to the roleplay, they give you something to help with the RP, letting you see what the person interprets as their avatar.  Letting you focus on the details of the skin, pock marks, stretch marks, scars, eye color and shape, color of hair, attire they are wearing, visible weapons etc etc.

With all the sales that happen from events and special areas, getting a good look can cost you next to nothing.  There's soooo many ways for new players to get all setup, but getting help from others makes it easier since we know where to go and what to do.

 

Being cool is far from just the looks, is what I am saying.  And Gacha like services are proven countless times to cost more if going for said cool look.

[Lucia Nightfire]

9 hours ago, Mollymews said:

yes thats the question

if Linden were ever to go down this path then they would be heading into the area of Smart Objects

and if they ever did decide to start making Smart Objects avaiable then I would be quite happy about that

If they wanted to make "smart objects" they would have implemented a pay protocol that filters who can pay an object.

llSetPayPrice() still allows anyone to pay whether they're standing in front of the machine or are 2 regions away.

[Ashley Darkheart]

I just went 7seas fishing, without bait, ( I never buy it) and got a rare fish on my third cast, so yes, you can get rare fish without bait

[Faly Breen]

3 minutes ago, Tori Nova said:

I just went 7seas fishing, without bait, ( I never buy it) and got a rare fish on my third cast, so yes, you can get rare fish without bait

you still have to use bait to get all fishes/stuff. here, the official rules.

[Komarimono]

1 minute ago, Faly Breen said:

you still have to use bait to get all fishes/stuff. here, the official rules.

Correct.  To get "Everything"  You'll need level 5 and a Pro Pole.  But that's like...  uhhh...  $3 USD investment?  Bait to get XP and get to level 5, 250L I believe for the Pro Pole.  Once level 5, can catch it all, just like Pokemon.  Any XP after that just grants Titles for the game.

[Leannyn]

Are blind loot boxes like Powder Pack going to be banned as well? They're the same thing. You play x amount of Lindens  and you have no idea what's inside until you open it. You only know which creators made the things for the month. Same thing? Or not? 

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I don't know what you are talking about but the conversation I am having with other people is about LL creating a vendor system tied in with the MP that other vendor systems can also tie into via an API or something.

What are you talking about? 

@Linden Lab

Come to think about it... if LL wants to use my idea, they're more than welcome to and I wouldn't notice if an extra 50k Ls happen to hit my account in the future. 😇

P.S. I never cash out.

 

 

Yes, I'm kidding about the Ls.

[Faly Breen]

4 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

Correct.  To get "Everything"  You'll need level 5 and a Pro Pole.  But that's like...  uhhh...  $3 USD investment?  Bait to get XP and get to level 5, 250L I believe for the Pro Pole.  Once level 5, can catch it all, just like Pokemon.  Any XP after that just grants Titles for the game.

it is still luck based. i ones casted 20 times in the row and got nothing - yes it might was bad luck, of course but again: 7sea IS based on a luck system and droprates so yea...about that.

[Lucia Nightfire]

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

i did say that the Moles build everything for Belli

which includes the scripts for everything in the Belli project, and then Linden sell the product that the Moles build

is fair enough to say that if Linden can make products to sell to us, then why can't they make vendors for us as well. Maybe they could. Maybe they could include the script in a Premium ShopKeeper package

The Moles don't have the best track record of locking things down or bulletproofing scripts.

I, along with a few others who've tested their fresh releases in the past, have been banned from being able to test their work in the future due to the exploits we've found. OK, "maybe" we were banned for showing off that we found said exploits. 😆

[Komarimono]

3 minutes ago, Leannyn said:

Are blind loot boxes like Powder Pack going to be banned as well? They're the same thing. You play x amount of Lindens  and you have no idea what's inside until you open it. You only know which creators made the things for the month. Same thing? Or not? 

Powder Packs are deemed fine, since anyone who purchases it gets the same random items as anyone else.  Kinda like all the various online "Loot Crate" type sites you can find online.  You don't know what you'll get, but get a hint due to a theme. 

Actually have a neat learning/science type of "Loot Crate" subscription for one of my nieces.  She loves it each month when it comes, and even those are the same since her friends mother started to subscribe to them as well.  Both got all the same thing each time thus far and enjoy playing together.

[Faly Breen]

6 minutes ago, Leannyn said:

Are blind loot boxes like Powder Pack going to be banned as well? They're the same thing. You play x amount of Lindens  and you have no idea what's inside until you open it. You only know which creators made the things for the month. Same thing? Or not? 

if the item/reward is random, it is banned i guess.

[Marianne Little]

6 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

if the item/reward is random, it is banned i guess.

It is allowed because all get the same content.

[Paulsian]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:26 PM, Dictatorshop said:

What about places like the Arcade which are ALL gacha? 

That was my first thought when I learned about this update, what is Arcade going to do, their machines are sooo cute. 

Me as well as my friends don't really like the risk of gatchas and mostly search the marketplace for gatcha resellers. I would be more likely to purchased an entire machine's worth of items then risking 20 duplicates. Resetting up the neat machines to give all at a set price would bring in more revenue. Some of the collections are soo cute. I'd be willing to spend a few thousand lindens on a complete collection vs dealing will all the duplicates. 

I wonder if they can still be called gatchas or will they have to modify the name gatcha2.0 or ungatcha allgatcha igatcha or something? gatcha to me means a set of something that you get in random pieces per payment, how neat would gatchas be if we knew exactly what we could get! OMG I really want that camping tent but i really don't need 50 bean bag chairs... Meant to be fun but they are really not and hardly anybody likes them. I think they will be funner in the near future. 

If the the items are still going to be transfer no copy no mod until that object is unpacked but then turn to either mod no mod but hopefully copy no transfer. than gatcha resellers will not suffer. For Example: maybe I only want the black set of whatever but willing to pay the 2k for the entire machine and I could still resell the brown and white and different colors on the marketplace. 

I don't think we should all panic we just have to learn and adapt to the new policy and make the best of it. I'm sure the gatcha machines are mostly mod and should not be very difficult to change the settings price and give everything (might need to drop everything in a prim and put the prim in the machine and give when set price is paid give prim with all displayed content. 

I can't wait to see what the creative people come up with.

[Leannyn]

I would think they should have to list things like there are 3 skins, 2 lipstick, 2 eyeshadow, 1 mesh nail or something like that. Otherwise, it's still random. Granted everyone is getting the same things but they are the same "random" things. No one knows what's inside the package until the receive the package... just like gacha.

@Linden Lab

[Rei Waifu]

just call it BuY me a car ... or  Pay for a vacation .... at least then we know what the creators are spending the money their cheating us out of on

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Aria Fae said:

just call it BuY me a car ... or  Pay for a vacation .... at least then we know what the creators are spending the money their cheating us out of on

I think for the vast majority it's more like "pay me min wage for the time invested over the lifespan of the item" 

[Faly Breen]

31 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

It is allowed because all get the same content.

i ment random in everyone gets a random reward. if everyone gets literally "the same", its ok but not if one gets a chair, the other one gets a table and so on (as sample).

Edited August 6, 2021 by Faly Breen