New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

44 minutes ago, Paulsian said:

That was my first thought when I learned about this update, what is Arcade going to do, their machines are sooo cute. 

Me as well as my friends don't really like the risk of gatchas and mostly search the marketplace for gatcha resellers. I would be more likely to purchased an entire machine's worth of items then risking 20 duplicates. Resetting up the neat machines to give all at a set price would bring in more revenue. Some of the collections are soo cute. I'd be willing to spend a few thousand lindens on a complete collection vs dealing will all the duplicates. 

I wonder if they can still be called gatchas or will they have to modify the name gatcha2.0 or ungatcha allgatcha igatcha or something? gatcha to me means a set of something that you get in random pieces per payment, how neat would gatchas be if we knew exactly what we could get! OMG I really want that camping tent but i really don't need 50 bean bag chairs... Meant to be fun but they are really not and hardly anybody likes them. I think they will be funner in the near future. 

If the the items are still going to be transfer no copy no mod until that object is unpacked but then turn to either mod no mod but hopefully copy no transfer. than gatcha resellers will not suffer. For Example: maybe I only want the black set of whatever but willing to pay the 2k for the entire machine and I could still resell the brown and white and different colors on the marketplace. 

I don't think we should all panic we just have to learn and adapt to the new policy and make the best of it. I'm sure the gatcha machines are mostly mod and should not be very difficult to change the settings price and give everything (might need to drop everything in a prim and put the prim in the machine and give when set price is paid give prim with all displayed content. 

I can't wait to see what the creative people come up with.

Be time for the Arcade to change to something else or close up.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Leannyn said:

Are blind loot boxes like Powder Pack going to be banned as well? They're the same thing. You play x amount of Lindens  and you have no idea what's inside until you open it. You only know which creators made the things for the month. Same thing? Or not? 

 

56 minutes ago, Faly Breen said:

if the item/reward is random, it is banned i guess.

 

47 minutes ago, Leannyn said:

I would think they should have to list things like there are 3 skins, 2 lipstick, 2 eyeshadow, 1 mesh nail or something like that. Otherwise, it's still random. Granted everyone is getting the same things but they are the same "random" things. No one knows what's inside the package until the receive the package... just like gacha.

@Linden Lab

 

Already answered by LL:

Q: How are subscription boxes affected?

A: Subscription boxes are not affected as long as all subscribers are getting the same content box. Different items being sent to different subscribers on a chance basis is not allowed. 
 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Faly Breen said:

it is still luck based. i ones casted 20 times in the row and got nothing - yes it might was bad luck, of course but again: 7sea IS based on a luck system and droprates so yea...about that.

You buy bait.  Not a chance to buy bait.  Anything after that is irrelevant.  You KNOW what you are buying.  You aren't paying for some unknown fish.  You might catch an unknown item but you haven't paid for an unknown item.  Get it?

[Innula Zenovka]

1 hour ago, Faly Breen said:

it is still luck based. i ones casted 20 times in the row and got nothing - yes it might was bad luck, of course but again: 7sea IS based on a luck system and droprates so yea...about that.

Quote

Q:  Will popular games like 7seas be impacted by this policy change?

A:  No, because the purchase of bait to go “fishing” is a purchase being made of a known item, and also the fish you catch while playing the game are non-transferable.  To be clear, if they are not currently, they must be going forward.

 

[MoiraKathleen]

1 hour ago, Leannyn said:

I would think they should have to list things like there are 3 skins, 2 lipstick, 2 eyeshadow, 1 mesh nail or something like that. Otherwise, it's still random. Granted everyone is getting the same things but they are the same "random" things. No one knows what's inside the package until the receive the package... just like gacha.

@Linden Lab

It is not "just like gacha" because with the powder pack or subscription box everyone is getting exactly the same thing.  It's OK for the contents to be random, as long as everyone is getting the same thing exactly (unlike gachas where each person can be getting a different thing).   

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

It is not "just like gacha" because with the powder pack or subscription box everyone is getting exactly the same thing.  It's OK for the contents to be random, as long as everyone is getting the same thing exactly (unlike gachas where each person can be getting a different thing).   

And no transfer.  No resale.

[MoiraKathleen]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

And no transfer.  No resale.

Thanks - I've never purchased a powder pack or subscription box, so I wasn't sure.  It was my hunch that they were non-transferable, but I didn't want to make that claim without knowing for sure.   

[hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian]

Stupid question, probably, but if fishing is OK, because you're buying a known item (a token? bait? I don't fish, but I'm somewhat hazy on the details), and what you get via the token? Bait? is no transfer… why can't the game formerly known as gachas (let's call it "gotcha!") use the same structure? You buy a token, and feed it in the gotcha! machine and get a (no transfer) random thing. Wouldn't that be OK? Never mind that the token in itself is absolutely worthless: you can't wear it, or use it as décor, or do anything with it… You know what you're getting and anything after doesn't matter, apparently. Seems strange to me that that's OK.

(To be clear, I've only played gachas a few times, when I was quite happy to get whatever from what's on offer, and I'm certainly glad if the way forward is to know what I'm getting, so I'm not trying to save gachas or anything…. as far as I'm concerned, good riddance to gachas.) Also I've only the faintest idea of what's involved in fishing (maybe that's obvious?).

But I'm just puzzled - what would stop sellers of gachas doing that, sell tokens to be used in gacha machines (and make the random items no transfer)?

Am I missing something? I HAVE tried reading the whole tread…but I wouldn't want to be quizzed on it…

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

27 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Stupid question, probably, but if fishing is OK, because you're buying a known item (a token? bait? I don't fish, but I'm somewhat hazy on the details), and what you get via the token? Bait? is no transfer… why can't the game formerly known as gachas (let's call it "gotcha!") use the same structure? You buy a token, and feed it in the gotcha! machine and get a (no transfer) random thing. Wouldn't that be OK? Never mind that the token in itself is absolutely worthless: you can't wear it, or use it as décor, or do anything with it… You know what you're getting and anything after doesn't matter, apparently. Seems strange to me that that's OK.

(To be clear, I've only played gachas a few times, when I was quite happy to get whatever from what's on offer, and I'm certainly glad if the way forward is to know what I'm getting, so I'm not trying to save gachas or anything…. as far as I'm concerned, good riddance to gachas.) Also I've only the faintest idea of what's involved in fishing (maybe that's obvious?).

But I'm just puzzled - what would stop sellers of gachas doing that, sell tokens to be used in gacha machines (and make the random items no transfer)?

Am I missing something? I HAVE tried reading the whole tread…but I wouldn't want to be quizzed on it…

 

For every time you typed token substitute Ls, then read it again. Ls are tokens.

[Innula Zenovka]

2 hours ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

Stupid question, probably, but if fishing is OK, because you're buying a known item (a token? bait? I don't fish, but I'm somewhat hazy on the details), and what you get via the token? Bait? is no transfer… why can't the game formerly known as gachas (let's call it "gotcha!") use the same structure? You buy a token, and feed it in the gotcha! machine and get a (no transfer) random thing. Wouldn't that be OK? Never mind that the token in itself is absolutely worthless: you can't wear it, or use it as décor, or do anything with it… You know what you're getting and anything after doesn't matter, apparently. Seems strange to me that that's OK.

(To be clear, I've only played gachas a few times, when I was quite happy to get whatever from what's on offer, and I'm certainly glad if the way forward is to know what I'm getting, so I'm not trying to save gachas or anything…. as far as I'm concerned, good riddance to gachas.) Also I've only the faintest idea of what's involved in fishing (maybe that's obvious?).

But I'm just puzzled - what would stop sellers of gachas doing that, sell tokens to be used in gacha machines (and make the random items no transfer)?

Am I missing something? I HAVE tried reading the whole tread…but I wouldn't want to be quizzed on it…

 

As I understand it (and I'd welcome correction here, since I've not played 7 Seas for years) you don't actually need bait (or a fancy rod) to catch stuff.    As in First Life, good equipment and bait mean you catch more, faster, but if you're in no great hurry to level up, and add to your collection of rare and exotic fish, and just want to have fun fishing, either alone or with your friends, then all you need is the basic rod.

So I think your analogy breaks down there.   You know what you're buying at the time of purchase -- bait or special rod.   That might make the game more enjoyable, if you care about how long it takes you to amass a  large collection and earn more bragging rights, but you don't need to buy anything other than the basic kit to play the game and win the same prizes.    It just takes a lot longer without the power-ups.

That's my understanding, anyway, I'm sure someone will be quick to put me right if I've misunderstood.

ETA:   I see there's a very helpful explanation of 7 Seas earlier in the thread by @Angelina Sinclair analysing how it differs from gachas.

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Innula Zenovka

[MoiraKathleen]

31 minutes ago, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

sell tokens to be used in gacha machines (and make the random items no transfer)?

If you're going to be getting a random item for each token, and the items are no transfer, what are you going to do with the 35 blue oval rugs you got because you kept trying over and over  to get the couch?  If the items are no transfer, the duplicates can't be given away, passed to an alt, or sold.  

Which is why I still think that the best thing for creators to do is to display the set in their store, rezzed out, and let people buy which ever of the pieces that they want to buy - in which case I could just buy the couch intially, and not have to worry about having to buy other parts of the set when I'm only interested in one of the items. 

If they make a nice display showing off the pieces and how well they go together, it is likely that a number of customers would buy a majority, or perhaps even all, of the items. 

[Styxx Starchild]

41 minutes ago, StephanieBell said:

" This customer played my gacha 47 times in the span of 5 minutes before purchasing the fatpack."

This table doesn't identify which set this is, clarify how many items are in the set (seems to indicate 18) or which items were the RARES. That customer played your gacha machine 47 times and still got no GACHA 16 or a GACHA 17. If it was a personal, no transfer full set they were after why play for all those gacha at all? I can't help thinking by that stage they were exasperated and hit the "Buy FATPACK" button by accident and then just left entirely. 

Interesting general information to know regardless, so thanks for posting.

I had excluded this information because it may easily identify the customer and I am not going to share their personal information.

There are 18 items in total:

• 1-10 being common at 7 Caspervend Tickets
  • Common Chance: 7.07% (10 Items)
• 11-15 being uncommon at 4 Caspervend tickets and
  • Uncommon Chance: 4.04% (5 items)
• 16-18 being rare at 3 Caspervend Tickets.
  • Rare: 3.03% (3 Items)

In turn the customer got every item with the exception of item 16 and 17 which are classified as Rare.

My rarity chances were based on the Caspertech Calculations:

 https://wiki.casperdns.com/index.php/CasperVend_2/Gacha

I've attached my formula calculation sheet below and included the formula I use.

X = Percent Chance | Y = Item Amount | Z = Caspervend Ticket Settings 

Z = (X / Y)*100

Also, I assume they were exasperated and caved in and just purchased the fatpack, I don't think it was by accident as there are two buttons on the "PAY OBJECT" menu, and it's on the far right.  They would've had to have quite the stretch and I likely would have had a very angry instant message.

Edited August 6, 2021 by xAmbiguityx

[Kyau Brodie]

Happy to see some creators already working on the new conveyor vendors!

Now I don't have to buy a fatpack for 3000L of 20 dogs just to get 1 dog for 50L.

If the one you want isn't coming up, just get it from a reseller.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Kyau Brodie

[MoiraKathleen]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

A few pages back, I mentioned a better solution.  Point for each item in a set you buy, collect enough points and purchase the rare.  No random purchases.  No buying something you don't want.  Buy the color/items you want.  Sort of like Epiphany does with points.  Any points from any machine the store has can be accumulated to purchase any rare.  Rares are displayed on a separate vendor that uses points only.

I guess one of the things I don't understand is this fixation on "rares".   Even in this solution, a certain number of other items have to be purchased in order to get enough points to get the "rare" item.  If all I wanted was the rare item - becuase it was the house, as an example - and I wasn't interested in anything else, in particular, I would still need to look through all the machines to find enough other things to buy - that I might only be lukewarm about - in order to collect enough points for the rare.   I would rather see the items for sale individually, and if some sense of "rareness" was important, make it a limited edition, with a limited number of that item to be sold. 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

They need to further update the 7 Seas ruling to say "Items gained while fishing" rather than just "fish" as there are many stores that put parts of an outfit in their fishing hole to fish for. 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

10 minutes ago, Kyau Brodie said:

Happy to see some creators already working on the new conveyor vendors!

Now I don't have to buy a fatpack for 3000L of 20 dogs just to get 1 dog for 50L.

If the one you want isn't coming up, just get it from a reseller.

Hopefully that will get 86ed with the gachas. Still a form of gambling.

[Coffee Pancake]

8 minutes ago, Kyau Brodie said:

Happy to see some creators already working on the new conveyor vendors!

Now I don't have to buy a fatpack for 3000L of 20 dogs just to get 1 dog for 50L.

If the one you want isn't coming up, just get it from a reseller.

Well .. that looks like a miserable shopping experience.

"Lets all stand about this weird gas pump and wait for some idiot to buy the teal knickers, I've got dibs on #04 though, if you don't let me get that my boyfriend will MAKE YOUR SL BURN."

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Well .. that looks like a miserable shopping experience.

"Lets all stand about this weird gas pump and wait for some idiot to buy the teal knickers, I've got dibs on #04 though, if you don't let me get that my boyfriend will MAKE YOUR SL BURN."

The creators of those need to simply go by the tried and true vendors and give up on those shenanigans.

[Tari Landar]

I am beginning to wonder what people have against vendors, lol. All these people trying to come up with workarounds and ways to come as close to crossing the "not allowed" line as possible, some doing it actually.  Why is there so much focus on these ideas, which will be priced at the gacha prices (some have suggested this is below the items' value, which may be true)  rather than encouraging people to sell their wares at whatever they believe they are worth in normal vendors? I get that there's some work to be done, at least for some people quite a bit of work possibly, to sell items from regular vendors, but aren't people putting an awful lot of work into these new roller/conveyor/whatever the hell vendors now? Wouldn't that time be better spent on transitioning to a system that will absolutely not go away anytime soon, one that is proven, one that works, one that has been here since day one? 

If people want to change their permissions, or even offer a couple permissions combinations, they can. They won't be limited by "what's expected of gacha sellers", which is pretty awesome, really. If people want to create fancy vendors, they could do that too, as long as they aren't these weird gacha-like things. But what's so wrong about simply directly selling products to people? People are still going to buy, they still want your stuff, you're still going to make a profit. Maybe some people will make a little less, at first or even overall, but at least they know they'll be doing so within the TOS, with methods that can't also possibly disappear just as quickly when they're found to skirt the line too close, or too far. Regular selling works just fine, always has, always will. 

Odd musings that run through my head while reading. So much energy spent on "how close can we get to gacha without calling it gacha, while still working like gacha, so we can trick people  into thinking it's like gacha" ideas that make me question just how shady some people really are with their sales tactics (yes I know, happens in rl too, this isn't sl exclusive, money is money, business is business). Not everyone is going to make a mint selling in sl. But these posts make it seem like just using normal vendors and selling methods is going to guarantee no one makes a dime or somehow the merchants lose out. That's just not true, some of the biggest, and even smallest, sellers in sl don't use gachas, or at least don't rely on them for the majority of their income. They seem to manage just dandy.

 

[MoiraKathleen]

2 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

The creators of those need to simply go by the tried and true vendors and give up on those shenanigans.

This trying to find any way (except normal vendors) to sell items that had been sold in gachas has been eye-opening, to say the least.  There's almost a feel of desperation to it.

There was a comment back someplace in the thread that where a poster said one of the reasons they bought gacha items was because they knew that they would be higher quality than non-gacha items.  In another thread, there was a comment that some events had trouble finding enough creators.  A former gacha-only seller (with some supposed better quality than anyone else) and empty stalls at an event sounds like they were made for each other.  The former gacha seller could sell items the normal way at the event, but would have the additional eyes on their product that a well-attended event brings.  It could be a way for former gacha-only sellers to start getting their wares out to an expanded audience and start to build an expanded customer base.  

[Tari Landar]

Just now, MoiraKathleen said:

This trying to find any way (except normal vendors) to sell items that had been sold in gachas has been eye-opening, to say the least.  There's almost a feel of desperation to it.

That pretty much sums it up. I don't understand that desperation, but it's definitely there. I don't understand it because there is no reason for it. All of these same gacha items can be sold in regular vendors, with varied levels of work put in, and slife can go on turning. 

It's somewhat fascinating to watch, definitely eye opening too. I'm trying hard to reserve at least some of my judgment, but people are making it very easy to judge the mechanics of their business acumen and the effects human behavior have on their bottom line, to put it nicely.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

That pretty much sums it up. I don't understand that desperation, but it's definitely there. I don't understand it because there is no reason for it. All of these same gacha items can be sold in regular vendors, with varied levels of work put in, and slife can go on turning. 

It's somewhat fascinating to watch, definitely eye opening too. I'm trying hard to reserve at least some of my judgment, but people are making it very easy to judge the mechanics of their business acumen and the effects human behavior have on their bottom line, to put it nicely.

I definitely understand the desperation from the merchants but the desperation from the consumers seems like....well....hmmm...addiction?

[Tari Landar]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I definitely understand the desperation from the merchants but the desperation from the consumers seems like....well....hmmm...addiction?

It is, without a doubt, addiction. Maybe people aren't really aware that one can easily be addicted to just about anything, or at least the feeling(s) they get from anything, not just the physical response(s) to things. 

[AmyBlackwood]

13 hours ago, Romy Writer said:

Hopefully the conveyor idea doesn't catch on, it sounds like a terrible way to shop. Pretty sure I will avoid this method no matter who is using it or what they are selling. Either way I suspect it will be interesting to see how things unravel going forward.

In substance it's no different to gachas. It just requires one extra purchase to (hopefully) get what you want. Fans of gacha will barely notice the difference.

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

2 minutes ago, AmyBlackwood said:

In substance it's no different to gachas. It just requires one extra purchase to (hopefully) get what you want. Fans of gacha will barely notice the difference.

Hopefully Linden Lab will nip that one in the bud.