Angelina Sinclair

Agreed. SL isn't a game but then that leaves the question. "What is it?" and "How can they market it?" Well all want LL to be profitable with SL. I'm slowly understanding how much trouble they've been having in marketing SL and retaining new users.

I am curious as to what professional UI designers would come up with for SL. Even if just redoing bits and pieces of it to give us an idea.

It was LL wanting to reduce basic accounts number of groups to 35. Claiming it that people having too many groups was a strain on their systems? Something like that.

It relates to the group fiasco we had last week and got me thinking. We want LL to improve SL and sometimes that requires new things, to innovate. Their only way to do that is through their viewer and server side updates. Many as you can see in this thread just don't like the base viewer and prefer another. So how is LL suppose to give us new fancy visuals if no one is there to try it and give constructive feedback. In an age of Fortnite, Minecraft, Skyrim and fallout 4 and so on. How is SL still so far behind in terms of numbers. In a game where you could be anything with avatar customization being so far above all the others, how are we behind still? Can't be the adult content; Nutaku is a gaming company specializing in just that and they are making mad money. Enough so to invest $10m in game developers to make adult games. My thoughts lead me back to the viewer and how if LL tried to modernize their UI to mimic more modern games they would get immense backlash and just wasted their money trying. So... that lead me to ask this question.

I feel you are misinterpreting what I am saying. This isn't about who is in charge. This is about created an experience with your land, a way you want people to see it and enjoy. That's all. These events you keep going on about are an isolated matter for you and honestly these points should be repeatedly told to event organizers until they get the picture. We need fly, need double click tp, we need a detail map of vendor locations, etc etc. To cripple the power of every other land owner and community that makes use of no-fly to better the experience of everyone just so you can buy your things quicker is selfish to me and while I understand your frustrations in these events it does not justify having broken features that should be working as intended. The laggy issues you mention is an issue felt across all of SL (unable to move, gray textures, slow scripts, etc). Any sim that has 30+ avatars is enough to cripple it and it is really bad right now with the TP in/out lag. It certainly drives people away, as much as you would suspect in these communities. Yet still to me this doesn't justify the need to leave things broken.

Could you elaborate on this more? I thought these features weren't a demand on sims. You telling me firestorm doesn't do it all client side?

The time you waste trying to fly in a sim with 40+ avatar is time you could've better spent camming around instead. It is quicker and more effective than flying around. Secondly, if the event organizers does this then take it up with them. Make your case with them to enable flying. However for other sims, clubs, RP sims, combat sims, adventure sims, etc etc etc. If they turn on flying restrictions these things should be respected. Honestly I'm surprise you don't use some sort of speed dash or if they allow double click to TP to get around faster.

But I am ask why! Why do you dislike it and have you tried it recently? It is my parcel and my land. If I turn off build, fly and scripts you shouldn't be able to override my wishes just cause you are too lazy to walk from point A and B. I'm sorry but land owners paid for it, they should be respected. Don't care if you could cam up 1000m and find obscurely hidden skyboxes you weren't meant to track down anyway. They remove fly for a reason like they remove builds or scripts for a reason.

That alone is a big enough reason but others could be: -Control the flow of traffic as if you want them to see certain things first like vendors or signs. -Prevent people from reaching skyboxes or sky platforms. -Discourage people from escaping skyboxes -Make combat more engaging for sims that focus on combat. I'm sure there are other reasons I missed.

This spoke out a lot to me. "If the learning curve is the same then it might as well do it on a viewer with more features." I do enjoy FS but there is just sooo many features. It got so bad they had to add a search bar for their features because at a glance you couldn't find what you wanted. That is just a bad case of feature creep. Some of it can stay but others bits of it should just go. I know some like the rather in depth technical features but that's just a turn off for new users. That should be locked behind things like how the Advance Menu or Developer Menu are hidden in a sense. Until you hit those key binding they don't pop up. So maybe some of these advance features could be hidden behind check boxes or key combos to activate. It definitely does come down to the learning curve. You really nailed it with that. Unless they some how re-invent things like the inventory window I don't see how they'll be able to retain people better. Hrm.

I'm surprised at the sheer vitriol hate people have for SL's default viewer. Sure it doesn't have the bells and whistles of firestorm but it still runs good. Anyway LL can salvage this and turn it around?

Nothing is too broken that some code wizard monkey can't fix it. All depends which monkey and how long you leave him/her pounding at the problem.

Just 90,000? That doesn't sound like a lot in the grand scheme of things. How will this help improve SL overall? I find it hard to believe that just 90,000 people with extra groups is impacting SL's performance that much. It is not like all 90k are online all the time or chatting in all those extra groups at once. Only thing I can figure is the profile images you are forced to download every time of these groups pop open. Surely this might be more of a design flaw with the server software or viewers that needs tweaking to improve the quality of SL overall. I really would love to see how much of an impact having all those groups really are cause if it is that bad. I'll glad trim off the excess groups if it means those around me have a better experience. Fyi, I am one of those basic members who is impacted by this. I tried premium in the past but there was nothing there really enticing me. I rather spend my money buying lindens and supporting content creators by buying their stuff. Now while the ability to speak with Live Support was nice, they never did help me with a serious griefer/stalker problem I and my friends had despite the constant messaging to Support and AR reports. A griefer problem that persist over a year. I'm not exaggerating. So no with the poor customer support, the gradually rising cost of fees, performance bugs like that dreaded tp-in/out bug and now this I really don't see a reason to get premium. Granted you guys have done a fantastic job fixing bugs and improving things over the past few years so I very much appreciate it. I'm not trying to be negative and attack you or LL. I'm just stating my experience with it. Right now I just see no value with premium membership, even with the new linden homes. I made a list of suggestions in page 3 of this thread which got some support. Surely there must be ways to tackle this problem without removing people's groups. Surely there must be new incentives, new things you and your company can do to try to generate more money. We love SL and we know SL isn't going to magically become the next Fortnite or FF15 but it is our place, it is our home and we love it here. We expect you guys to take care of, take care of us, and improve this wonderful world we created. A world that breaks all norms and has become something truly special. So please from the content creators who run businesses within them, to the communities within SL who need them, to the people who like to sit at home and just chat in groups all day long; please reconsider this decision.

Well... how much profit is enough profit? I get they are a business but they are doing a terribly poor job of running said business. -Useless old search results -Utterly terrible new player experience -TP lag from avatars entering leaving sims to the point it is detrimental to have a popular sim. -Sims that can't handle 40+ people Good knows what else I missed. However this idea that not giving to the community is not profitable is far from the truth. Just look at other F2P games or the mobile industry. Look at fortnite in where they regularly give away outfits to new players just for playing their game. LL can do that (well after the update the avatar model *coughs*). LL can SOOOO do that to try and keep players coming in for more and more.

I thought the move to amazon servers was going to help reduce operating costs. This hit on basic accounts is going to hurt communities and in general make people more cynical and spiteful. You give with one hand and you take with another. Honestly, this is not how you make premium account more attractive. What I see happening now in response to this folks being online a lot more. First people will leave themselves online through their phone or tablet just so they don't miss any messages or notices. This will put a drain on linden systems as there will be online zombies lingering about hogging network data and resources. Secondly, people will slowly stop using groups and just use discord which for the short term might look good but these communities will no long be tied to SL, they have discord to keep them connected. So the moment SL pisses off the majority of said community they'll leave all at once to find a new place together. Groups in SL kept people in SL with their communities that only exist in SL. This group limit reduction is shooting yourself in the foot. I get that LL wants to making premium accounts more attractive but this isn't doing it. Not at all. I have a free account and I choose to stay free because there is literally nothing attractive to me on the premium account that makes it worth the cost. Instead I spend that money on lindens which goes to pay land owners and content creators who in turn pay LL. So to me I don't get it. But you know to avoid sounding entirely negative. Here's some ideas to make premium more attractive that you could immediately implement: 1) Zero upload costs... limited to say 20? uploads per day/week or whatever before the upload costs return. 2) Actual good customer service that deals with griefers and drama, especially when there is a track record of it. 3) Higher min group requirement. Make it like 20? 50? people minimum otherwise you pay fees.. 10L per week? UNLESS you are premium. 4) Reduced fees for buying lindens while premium. You got them on the premium hook, do you really need to milk every transaction? Lower fees, means more impulse buying. 5) Allow private sim owners to expand sim size. Just literally make it bigger. LI can be the same. This way people could do races, or more indepth RP layout instead of stacking sim builds to skyboxes at various heights. 6) Promotional deals. Pick a content creator to promote, and on their marketplace page do a limited time discount. LL will ensure the creator still gets the full value of their products (ex: 1,000L) while the customers pay a discount amount (like 10%) so customers pay 900L, Linden labs pay the missing 100L, the creator still gets 1000L. All this to encourage impulse buying and improve brands and creators LL support and like. Long term changes LL can do to make premium more attractive: 1. Allow sims to hold more than 40 avatars! This right here is killing your land business anyway. When Truth, blueberry or other stores do sales, it is jam pack for days and it does turn away some people from dropping in and buying stuff. Fix this.. some how... 2. Inventory preview wear option? Some wardrobe window maybe? So I don't have to wear the outfit just to see what it is cause the creator didn't include a photo. Plus then others won't have to render my outfit nor the sim. 3. Better notice system. Seriously why do notices count as offline messages? This should be client side, entirely. When did you log out? Ok now check for notices that popped in afterward... bam here you go. 4. Add a dating service for premium users? Silly, cheesy, bad taste.. I know.. but you know there's a market for it. 5. Give away outfits. In a game where there are no monsters to grind for gear and no way to generate cash without spending cash (upload costs and all). Most new players have 1 or 2 outfits at most to use and relying on freebies or anything extra which is just terrible. They get shunned, ignored and usually not welcomed without a remotely decent avatar. So for new arrivals let them pick an outfit from the marketplace (from a list you approve of) and make it free (aka you, LL buy it for them). Do this every 5 days for 30 days to keep them logging in regularly. Hey mobile tactics are profitable use'em. Secondly, by implementing a system where you give new players a free outfit you can now put this as a feature for premium users! Add it to their weekly stipend. 6. Share (some) premium benefits to friends! Maybe your 3 best friends can now also access premium areas. Or get virtual gifts. Priority access to sims (at least from other basic accounts but not premium) Maybe something I mentioned above but reduced. Either way, share the benefits! I'm sure the community here can come up with other ideas of how to make premium more attractive to people. In general, don't assume every listed benefit you create or I listed will be used by everyone, all the time. Some get premium for one reason (like support) and that's it. So if you can share the benefits, friends will get it just to give something to someone they care about. Don't forget what makes people log back into SL everyday is the communities and people they met. Sure some are in it for the money, to create content, but majority of people are here to make connects with others, make friends and be apart of a community. Promote that, build around that and you'll have more retention which means more money casually spent. You don't have to force. Some of us drops $50 or more on a weekly basis without a second thought for ourselves and for our friends. So please, be considerate of the communities you are impacting by this move.