New Gacha Policy Discussion

[Coffee Pancake]

I'm still meeting friends in SL who have no idea gacha is being banned.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

This would tie in perfectly with what I proposed.  If you want that house, buy a certain amount of other items from that merchant's machines to accumulate enough points for the house.  There is no random chance involved, no buying things you don't want in order to get what you do want.  There is a choice.  Not a choice of next item available but a choice of many different things to rack up points.  This is especially nice with home decor.  I want this light, that rug, those plants, etc.  Yay!  I have enough points now to get that house.  Win/win.  The merchant makes a bunch of sales and the consumer gets only things they want.  Also, it's doable for people on a budget just as much.  The points don't expire.  Buy a few things this week and a few more next week.

Anyone seeing a downside to this?  I'd love some input from either side.

Other than buying things I may not want just to get points? I certainly will never participate, juste like in RL. If I have to spend money on other things to get something I want, then nope, not worth my time.

Edited August 6, 2021 by VergilISparda

[Silent Mistwalker]

6 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

yes you right about making it available to everyone

something that has been talked about in other conversations is a inworld vendor object able to be connected to an item on Marketplace.  Suppose Linden did this, it would suit the Smart Object model.  The web link would be a property able to be set at design time

when we pay the vendor it registers the sale against the Marketplace listing and the product is delivered by the marketplace system, and not by the object

if it was done this way then Linden could get paid for making it (a marketplace commission they don't get ordinarily from inworld sales)

If LL were to create the vendors, it would be a "simple" matter of linking the vendors to the MP. Remember the Magic Boxes? Now image those with vendors as well as uploading to an MP store.

I don't know much (nothing really) about coding but from what I do know, all a system like CasperVend would need is a means to "hook into" the MP. Maybe via API from LL?  To my knowledge this would allow CasperVend and others to continue with the features and products they currently offer without any conflicts of a non technical nature.

This is actually something I thought LL would do from the beginning when they bought XStreet, Boutique, etc but it never happened. I've always wondered what the real reason(s) for not doing it have been.

[Dutch Mainsail]

17 minutes ago, Leigh Tharnaby said:

That's generous. I won't name the store but their gachas are so rigged that 75 pulls will get you 75 commons. You might be lucky and get a single uncommon but expect to pump 10,000 linden into that machine for a rare/super rare unless the gods are smiling on you. That's the real reason creators want to keep this going. Sorry to the stores that made fair gachas and didn't exploit people but now it has to stop. I loved gachas when the Arcade first opened but I quit playing them once it became less about a fun game and more about money and the value of rarity.

If you're derailing by going "But trading cards" and "but 7Seas", cut it out.

Then again, there’s also creators who’s gacha give you the rare item after an X amount of plays… So in a sense you know what you might end up paying for the rare item, your only luck would be getting it cheaper. Unless you’re gunning for that one common… That might still be a problem.

[Elysienne Nebula]

1 hour ago, JuriTreat said:

I am at the Crystals Hearts event today. Which is a good reminder for me as to why I can't really enjoy these events. 100 stalls with almost 100% gacha items. I want to spend money, but I can't be a responsible consumer by gambling for 100% of the items that I desire. Beyond the legal implications, its easy to see why so many people want this gone.

When it's that bad, I just tp right back out. I'm fairly certain that I'm not the only one who does.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, VergilISparda said:

Other than buying useless things I may not want just to get points? I certainly will never participate, juste like in RL. If I have to spend money on other things to get something I want, then nope, not worth my time.

I probably wouldn't either unless I loved the house and it was a store with items I did like.  It was meant to be a better option than the conveyor belt which makes you purchase something you might definitely hate to get to what you do want.  People want that rare somehow for whatever reason.  At least with this option, you can pick what you spend your money on to earn points.  

Merchants are looking for a way to sell their gacha items as non-gacha.   This gives them that option while still giving the consumer free choice.   And the opportunity to get the rare without ending up with 10 of the same thing.

Just an idea since I haven't seen any that don't include some element of chance/randomness.

 

[Komarimono]

14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I'm still meeting friends in SL who have no idea gacha is being banned.

I told all my friends, and linked them the Blog and the Forums.  They were ecstatic, to then be disappointed at the new system proposed.  I won't share their choice words, but needless to say, not a single one was happy.  Though only 59 of them are online atm.

[Mollymews]

28 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

Then your parent shall tell you this or better has to tell you this: Linden Labs is based in California and have to operate first and foremost under the Californian Laws. Under those laws, especially the Califonian Gambling Law, gachas are considered a gambling device, even an illegal gambling device, based on 4 points.

- Device requires a payment (whether those are real money, virtual money, tokens or even carrot slices, makes no difference)

- It's based on chance rather skill, aka the user (player) has no control, no input in the outcome of the result.

- The result has a value (in this case, item can be resold and the profit of this action can be cashed out in real money)

- Most important, the algorithm aka script can be manupilated so the outcome can be altered.

is not quite true this. Not yet anyway

in the loot box cases so far that have been ruled on by California courts, cases against Apple and Google have been dismissed by the courts on procedural grounds. And another against Apple dismissed on a plain text interpretation of the statute, according to the judge hearing the case

a case against EA was referred by the court to mediation which resulted in the plaintiffs withdrawing their lawsuit when EA was able to show that the method that the plaintiffs presumed was not actually the method EA used. Can't be legally penalised for something they never did

is a number of other cases making their way thru the California courts. But until somebody gets convicted of loot boxing then is all up in the air at the moment in California

this said, laws in other US states and countries where Linden operates are pretty clear, loot boxes are illegal

[VergilISparda]

3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I probably wouldn't either unless I loved the house and it was a store with items I did like.  It was meant to be a better option than the conveyor belt which makes you purchase something you might definitely hate to get to what you do want.  People want that rare somehow for whatever reason.  At least with this option, you can pick what you spend your money on to earn points.  

Merchants are looking for a way to sell their gacha items as non-gacha.   This gives them that option while still giving the consumer free choice.   And the opportunity to get the rare without ending up with 10 of the same thing.

Just an idea since I haven't seen any that don't include some element of chance/randomness.

 

I get your point, and while I see exactly what you mean and respect your point, I don't see the interest in doing that. It's sad that merchants are stuck with a bunch of creations they won't be force selling to anyone anymore, but the fact that it will be another way aka buying everything in a collection to get the good item (Which again "good", is decided by the creator), just looks desperate to me.

And people are still talking about "rare" and so, when it should be understood that this needs to end. It's no more "rare" if it's hat "easy" to buy now. A lot of creators have been making sets since the begining of SL (Living room sets, kitchen sets, clothes, games etc...) And I believe they are still in business, they just aren't greedy folks wanting that pile of money selling things that we all know, are not any better than regular items. Put a sticker with glitters on it and watch people want it more, it's basic marketing, just not a very honest one. Again, it's my opinion, all said with respect.

Edited August 6, 2021 by VergilISparda

[Stella Davros]

1 hour ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

If you have to buy something you don't want to get what you do want, how is that not losing money? You had to pay for something you didn't want to get what you did want so you are paying more than if you could have just bought the thing you want without having to pay for something you don't want.

So if the will put option if u want straight what u want u have to pay 5000 linden will be fine then!!!! 

[Stella Davros]

1 hour ago, xAmbiguityx said:

I didn't miss the part where you can sell or trade the copies, however you may have missed the part where I stated I include fatpack versions for L$3,000 - so all content is accessible without the need to trade or gamble.  Though I may be the only one of several creators that do this it is still an option.  I personally do not see a lot of return value on reselling Gachas, a majority of users resell them anywhere from 50%-90% off their original values just to get cash back.  That is of course unless they got a rare, which they then markup to usually L$1000 or more.  Additionally using my redacted customer for example - this would mean they must attempt to sell all 47 copies of my gacha that they purchased for the same amount. Other customers will be doing this as well and resellers tend to undercut each other by a significant amount. So why buy from the reseller if they don't have a rare unless its an item you really wanted, they will likely come directly to my stall/store and take a risk themselves OR they'll see that I have a fatpack and skip playing the gacha completely.

Sorry i did not saw the part of the fatpack....and I agree with that, they can put an option that u can buy the whole set no transfer at x lindens, but first they have to do the script for makin work....i suggested to do somenthing like it was hud for the event "pocket gacha" you can find the video on youtube if u don t know and in that hud was the option to buy the entire full set too.... they have just to modify couple of things like for who want to spin the hud have to show you what is coming next thats all

Edited August 6, 2021 by Stella Davros

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

So if the will put option if u want straight what u want u have to pay 5000 linden will be fine then!!!! 

[Komarimono]

Just now, Stella Davros said:

So if the will put option if u want straight what u want u have to pay 5000 linden will be fine then!!!! 

You're kinda admitting with your sarcastic post, it's always been about greed.

And I've happily paid a heft price for items I feel were worth it.  I've so many mesh heads, and I think we know how much those cost on average.  I've purchased nearly every mesh body to exist for feminine looks.  And I think we know the cost of those.  When it comes to hair I like, and love the style?  I'll always get the Fatpack over a standard color.

I mean, I've spent thousands upon thousands of $L just for building.  Tons of cave sets, Sc-Fi sets, tons of trees, buildings etc.  Vehicles.  But ya know what?  I paid the high price, since the products I felt were great in support and quality.

[Stella Davros]

3 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

Sorry i did not saw the part of the fatpack....and I agree with that, they can put an option that u can buy the whole set no transfer at x lindens, but first they have to do the script for makin work....i suggested to do somenthing like it was hud for the event "pocket gacha" you can find the video on youtube if u don t know and in that hud was the option to buy the entire full set too.... they have just to modify couple of things like for who want to spin the hud have to show you what is coming next thats all even with that hud u don t need to go to the event but u can buy wherever u want so no lag as well

 

[Stella Davros]

4 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Ahahahaha was a joke obviously ahahahahha but they can put an option for buy the fatpack no transfer

[Kathlen Onyx]

Tell me again why creators can't simply put prices on things and sell them?

Common - 100L - Unlimited amount

Uncommon - 500L - 500 Available

Rare - 2000L - 200 Available

All examples of course.  Will no one buy the Common and only buy the rares which would make them not rare anymore?

Edited August 6, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian

[Stella Davros]

5 minutes ago, Komarimono said:

You're kinda admitting with your sarcastic post, it's always been about greed.

And I've happily paid a heft price for items I feel were worth it.  I've so many mesh heads, and I think we know how much those cost on average.  I've purchased nearly every mesh body to exist for feminine looks.  And I think we know the cost of those.  When it comes to hair I like, and love the style?  I'll always get the Fatpack over a standard color.

I mean, I've spent thousands upon thousands of $L just for building.  Tons of cave sets, Sc-Fi sets, tons of trees, buildings etc.  Vehicles.  But ya know what?  I paid the high price, since the products I felt were great in support and quality.

I was jocking.....btw of course could be implemented the option to buy the whole set obviously no transfer

[Rowan Amore]

6 minutes ago, VergilISparda said:

I get your point, and while I see excatly what you mean and respect your point, I don't see the interest in doing that. It's sad that merchants are stuck with a bunch of creations they won't be force selling to anyone anymore, but the fact that it will be another way aka buying everything in a collection to get the good item (Which again "good", is decided by the creator), just looks desperate to me.

And people are still talking about "rare" and so, when it should be understood that this needs to end. It's no more "rare" if it's hat "easy" to buy now. A lot of creators have been making sets since the begining of SL (Living room sets, kitchen sets, clothes, games etc...) And I believe they are still in business, they just aren't greedy folks wanting that pile of money selling things that we all know, are not any better than regular items. Put a sticker with glitters on it and watch people want it more, it's basic marketing, just not a very honest one. Again, it's my opinion, all said with respect.

I'll call it an exclusive instead of a rare. I think that is what they're called at Epiphany?  Also, nothing is transfer so no one will be making any money aside from the merchant.  

I agree with you.  I prefer to just have the option to buy what I want at a certain price but people love to own something exclusive/rare.   So they can be unique just like everyone else?   Beats me.

[VergilISparda]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'll call it an exclusive instead of a rare. I think that is what they're called at Epiphany?  Also, nothing is transfer so no one will be making any money aside from the merchant.  

I agree with you.  I prefer to just have the option to buy what I want at a certain price but people love to own something exclusive/rare.   So they can be unique just like everyone else?   Beats me.

That is one good thing about all this, no matter what the end result happens to be.

[Leigh Tharnaby]

12 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

So if the will put option if u want straight what u want u have to pay 5000 linden will be fine then!!!! 

Don't worry, some creators are planning to do that.

Not so funny now, is it?

[Styxx Starchild]

9 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

Sorry i did not saw the part of the fatpack....and I agree with that, they can put an option that u can buy the whole set no transfer at x lindens, but first they have to do the script for makin work....i suggested to do somenthing like it was hud for the event "pocket gacha" you can find the video on youtube if u don t know and in that hud was the option to buy the entire full set too.... they have just to modify couple of things like for who want to spin the hud have to show you what is coming next thats all

All of my products are Copy and Modify unless they are a Gacha.  If the items are a Gacha they are Modify/Transfer unless I have used a voucher system for redemption.  Redeemable Gachas are transferable but once you collect the item they become no copy/modify/no transfer. For some items HUDs are available, for most it all just comes in a bundle and you can click through it, it really depends on the nature of the item.

[Stella Davros]

2 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Tell me again why creators can't simply put prices on things and sell them?

Common - 100L

Uncommon - 500L

Rare - 2000L

All examples of course.  Will no one buy the Common and only buy the rares which would make them not rare anymore?

Cause there is a marketplace around... put fixed price and u can choice what you want then will have no sense to do all this.....gachas in the end is like wholesale and LL gain money every transaction made on MP , so it s ok if u can choice to buy the whole set no transfer at x price but if someone want to pay 75L and choose all what they want sound ridicolous so if u wanna pay 75L u can choose what the vendor give u in that moment with the option that one day u can resell or trade otherwise buy the entire set i don t know at 3500L for example 

[Stella Davros]

4 minutes ago, xAmbiguityx said:

All of my products are Copy and Modify unless they are a Gacha.  If the items are a Gacha they are Modify/Transfer unless I have used a voucher system for redemption.  Redeemable Gachas are transferable but once you collect the item they become no copy/modify/no transfer. For some items HUDs are available, for most it all just comes in a bundle and you can click through it, it really depends on the nature of the item.

No for hud i mean implemented into the new system for buy gachas or whatever they are called

[Kathlen Onyx]

Just now, Stella Davros said:

Cause there is a marketplace around... put fixed price and u can choice what you want then will have no sense to do all this.....gachas in the end is like wholesale and LL gain money every transaction made on MP , so it s ok if u can choice to buy the whole set no transfer at x price but if someone want to pay 75L and choose all what they want sound ridicolous so if u wanna pay 75L u can choose what the vendor give u in that moment with the option that one day u can resell or trade otherwise buy the entire set i don t know at 3500L for example 

Wholesale, my dear is typically cheaper but you probably won't get that.

[Silent Mistwalker]

10 minutes ago, Stella Davros said:

Ahahahaha was a joke obviously ahahahahha but they can put an option for buy the fatpack no transfer

I don't know what you are talking about but the conversation I am having with other people is about LL creating a vendor system tied in with the MP that other vendor systems can also tie into via an API or something.

What are you talking about?