New Gacha Policy Discussion

[simplemint]

Hopefully I can provide one perspective of why some consumers may miss gacha and may look forward to a conveyor belt system. I didn't play gacha machines myself - too risky for my own taste - but I did purchase from gacha resellers. I was mostly interested in pets and clothing items. It was a way to get items for cheaper than an equivalent item sold at retail price, I liked being able to support the resellers, and I liked the 'hunt' aspect of it. I liked visiting different gacha resale sims to sort through what was available like a yard sale and I liked scrolling through the Marketplace to see what items would pop up. Gacha resellers will still be around of course, but over time their stock will eventually dwindle to be nothing as a result of this change.

I like the idea of the conveyor belt system because it brings back some degree of randomness to purchasing over a normal vendor. I like that the next item to show up would be clear, unlike a gacha machine. To be completely honest, I could see myself purchasing from one so long as the item is one that I like - ideally with a demo for any clothing items. I'm also the kind of person who likes playing Lucky Letters and Midnight Manias and watching blind box opening videos online. 

However, I can also see the concern here about the predatory nature of these machines. If they are to stay around, in an ideal world, I'd like to see controls being put on machines to lessen concerns as much as possible - for example, the option for items to rotate after a certain period of time if no purchase is made. 

I purchase far more often from regular retailers than I did from gacha resellers so normal retail options definitely work! I think they're the most reliable system for gacha resellers to transition to. There are a few gacha-only creators I adore who I'd love to see transition their shops into something new. Fingers crossed they will.

But I also am interested in seeing the different ways that creators mix up normal retail options, whether that's in a conveyor belt system or in more conventionally accepted systems like Lucky Letter, Midnight Mania, 50L/50 minutes, and more.

Edited August 6, 2021 by simplemint

[Chris Corvinus]

Can you creators just stop trying to find ways to get around the gacha ban? Make it easy and just sell packs? There’s no need to be this stupidly complicated about it. We just wanna buy stuff. We don’t wanna jump through hoops, wait in line, or whatever else you think is “creative and fun”. We just wanna walk up, buy it, and walk away. Please stop the insanity.

[CelestineDemetria]

How about Auction houses for Various Items? That people would still like to Collect and Trade.

Just an Idea.

[Gwin LeShelle]

How about just selling things the old fashioned way. Straight sales. No strings attached. Just click and pay. And maybe just offer normal no transfer versions and a no copy version for all the people that like to "trade" aka shuffle stuff among their alts x3

Edited August 6, 2021 by Gwin LeShelle

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

How about just selling things the old fashioned way. Straight sales. No strings attached. Just click and pay. And maybe just offer normal no transfer versions and a no copy version for all the people that like to "trade" aka shuffle stuff through their alts x3

I do wish some things were no copy/transfer/mod.  Years ago, I purchased a lot of jewelry from Donna Flora.  Her items were always set that way.  You had to be careful modifying them, of course but they didn't have as much trouble as no copy items rezzed out.  I've been able, over the years, to pass those items along to Rowan.  I don't wear them often but it's nice that I can.  To me, those are collectibles.

[Kricket Calamity]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

That pretty much sums it up. I don't understand that desperation, but it's definitely there. I don't understand it because there is no reason for it. All of these same gacha items can be sold in regular vendors, with varied levels of work put in, and slife can go on turning. 

It's somewhat fascinating to watch, definitely eye opening too. I'm trying hard to reserve at least some of my judgment, but people are making it very easy to judge the mechanics of their business acumen and the effects human behavior have on their bottom line, to put it nicely.

The desperation comes from creators who are losing their main source of income. If regular releases made even half of what gachas did we wouldn't have ever bothered with gachas. It takes years to learn meshing, texturing, rigging and then weeks to create items and unless you're in the top stores in SL then you're not even earning minimum wage for often working 60+ hour weeks. Gacha gave some decent money for our work, certainly not what we should be paid for the hours put into it but a lot more than a regular release. Unless customers want to start paying a lot more for regular releases, we're going to have to find another way to make our money or we'll need to leave and find somewhere else to work. I hope that explains it a bit.

[Candide LeMay]

@Patch Linden

I rez a box on my land. It has other objects inside (and those can have other objects inside etc etc). To an outsider the content of the box is unknown. I set it for sale as an original and leave it on my land. Anyone who walks by can buy it and take it to their inventory.

 

Is this going to be a TOS violation starting next month?

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Thanks Kricket I've been trying to say that to my bestie for 3 days but i couldn't find the right words.

The reason gacha got so famous is they worked at a time SL store keeping was becoming a bit like beating a dead horse.

Edited August 7, 2021 by JUSTUS Palianta
need more coffee

[Bree Giffen]

1 minute ago, Candide LeMay said:

@Patch Linden

I rez a box on my land. It has other objects inside (and those can have other objects inside etc etc). To an outsider the content of the box is unknown. I set it for sale as an original and leave it on my land. Anyone who walks by can buy it and take it to their inventory.

 

Is this going to be a TOS violation starting next month?

I can answer this Patch. The answer is… it’s not a tos violation if the contents are completely unknown because no one would ever buy it.  Homerun!

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Yeah who is going to buy something when they have 0 idea what it is, could be a plywood box.

[Shuichi Shinji]

The way I see it now, after reading this whole thread and thinking about it, is that the original gacha idea was fun, a game, where you didn't know what you would get and that could be exciting. Of course that fun part is also the dangerous, addictive part, and that the whole idea was perverted into a money-making scheme by some is also clear.

But for me, the main point with these new ideas like the conveyor-type machines is that the random part, the fun part, is missing, and it won't come back, because that is the part that has to go. So no matter how hard people try, none of these systems will be fun, just annoying to get a lot of things you know you have to get before getting what you really want.

Unless someone's coming up with a completely different idea to bring the fun part back, even without randomization, these things are dead for me - and it's probably for the better. Not that I played much gacha anyway - there are a lot of other fun things to do in SL. So I decided to turn my Gatcha script into a Giftcha script or whatever it will be called - take the payment out and just give a random gift on touch. Probably no one will want that or need that, but I will do it anyway 🙂

[Candide LeMay]

1 minute ago, Bree Giffen said:

I can answer this Patch. The answer is… it’s not a tos violation if the contents are completely unknown because no one would ever buy it.  Homerun!

Ok, what if I put a sign next to the box saying "Cookies inside". If there are no cookies inside the buyer will feel cheated, but that's false advertising and not a TOS violations as far as I can tell. LL typically doesn't get involved in resident vs resident disputes.

And what if I rez 10 of such boxes and the sign is saying "Cookies inside of one of these boxes"...

[Rowan Amore]

[JUSTUS Palianta]

Candide read this thread from start to finish and decide if its allowed 🙂

[Qie Niangao]

34 minutes ago, Kricket Calamity said:

The desperation comes from creators who are losing their main source of income. If regular releases made even half of what gachas did we wouldn't have ever bothered with gachas. It takes years to learn meshing, texturing, rigging and then weeks to create items and unless you're in the top stores in SL then you're not even earning minimum wage for often working 60+ hour weeks. Gacha gave some decent money for our work, certainly not what we should be paid for the hours put into it but a lot more than a regular release. Unless customers want to start paying a lot more for regular releases, we're going to have to find another way to make our money or we'll need to leave and find somewhere else to work. I hope that explains it a bit.

If this is true, buyers should avoid gacha like the plague.

[Fionalein]

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Hopefully Linden Lab will nip that one in the bud.

Look at the FAQ below the Blog post 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

2 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

That pretty much sums it up. I don't understand that desperation, but it's definitely there. I don't understand it because there is no reason for it

That is what an addiction is, in a sense. There really is no reason for the desperation other than the fix. 

Some of them have been so "rabid" about it that I have been reminded of heroin addicts I have known. It's a kind of insanity in a way.

[Vihmakass]

Conveyer system is dream come true for resellers if items are still transfer. If they arent .....I think there will be very few who want play them bc you spend lot of money on items what you dont want and cant sell or gift.

Limited item sales.....are bot party if items stay transfer and then scalpers sell them on MP.

Fatpacks are usually expensive. If items are still in them transfer scalpers buy them, break into parts and sell for separate good items for good money on MP. If fatpacks are copy and no transfer....you get lot of stuff what you dont need and want in inventory, it is waste of money. / reason why i very very rarely buy gacha fatpacks /

So transfer option is from one side good but same time bad. Maybe it should be vice versa - you dont trade transfer items to be copy ones for free but you trade copy ones to be transfer for some nice lindens? Then people who want gift in old fashion way can do it. Gifting thru shop vendor can be in some cases impossible and gifting from MP has some bad moments too.

Seems that only options to make special sets and sell them with bit fun activity for buyers are similar to fishing and breedables, what both are allowed to continue. Methods need just bit adjusting to be not very complicated and fit with new regulations.

Buy must be known item...what you can do with that items after isnt regulated and in this is key.

Like fishing - make rod, sell it with same prize to all....make nice pool with nice seats and let people fish out items.

Or like breedables - make base items with dif prizes what when you merge them gives you random outcome.

Or make skill game with pay to play and with points you get you can choose prize.

It is mine opinion but seems those are only options left....maybe some creative mind finds smth more.

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

A thought just occurred to me. Perhaps this is LL's way of saying our inventories are too big? And the combined "weight" of them all is dragging the grid down?

Nah. 🙄

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

Can you creators just stop trying to find ways to get around the gacha ban? Make it easy and just sell packs? There’s no need to be this stupidly complicated about it. We just wanna buy stuff. We don’t wanna jump through hoops, wait in line, or whatever else you think is “creative and fun”. We just wanna walk up, buy it, and walk away. Please stop the insanity.

How can you be so heartless?

[Komarimono]

9 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

A thought just occurred to me. Perhaps this is LL's way of saying our inventories are too big? And the combined "weight" of them all is dragging the grid down?

Nah. 🙄

I'm innocent in this regard, I cleaned out so many things, that I went from 240k items to like, 90k.  Many Gacha, just poof, not dealing with it, even if "Rare".  Prims...  so many sculpt maps I made...

Edited August 7, 2021 by Komarimono

[Stella Davros]

1 hour ago, Chris Nova said:

Can you creators just stop trying to find ways to get around the gacha ban? Make it easy and just sell packs? There’s no need to be this stupidly complicated about it. We just wanna buy stuff. We don’t wanna jump through hoops, wait in line, or whatever else you think is “creative and fun”. We just wanna walk up, buy it, and walk away. Please stop the insanity.

So don t buy gacha then!!! There is many events where to buy normally and if not go and buy after from the MP, for me cnveyor belt will work.....the market is like this if u want buy if not....next please

[Kricket Calamity]

19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If this is true, buyers should avoid gacha like the plague.

Why? I think all creators should be paid for their time and work, anyone who works should be paid fairly. 

[Vihmakass]

To all them who just want go and buy....there is lot of items with what you can do so.

For some people that kind stuff is bit boring when you go to event and you be surrounded with all same " at moment popular" outfit and hair. Sometimes it even feels tiny bit creepy :D:D ...or funny. Happens usually after every new event or weekend sales.

Gacha was good way for those who want have bit dif. look and who were ready to invest time and money into this.

Also for them who like gift nice items what arent easy to get. Gift stright from vendor or MP is nice too but ...read that "too" with impact.

Still that also is mine opinion only.

[Sparkle Bunny]

I am sad gachas are going because they were a fun and inexpensive way of shopping. I am happy that everyone is selling off their gacha super cheap. I am sad this is going to lead to me spending much more than I otherwise would on gacha this month. I am happy that I will have lots of new stuff to wear and decorate with thanks to all the super cheap gacha.

Another thing creators could do with their obsolete gacha sets is have paid hunts? Last time Petit Mort / Oubliette did one they had all the prizes displayed on a poster so you could see what you were getting, all the hunt items were clearly labelled, and I ended up buying multiple items, whereas if they'd done it in the form of a gacha I'd have grabbed one and moved on.