getting woke and SL

[FairreLilette]

On 6/11/2020 at 3:55 AM, Mollymews said:

White is a race classification used by the US government. White, Black, Asian, Hispanic being the 4 main US classifications. These have specific meanings as they relate to the USA

Not in California though, we have these below and even more have been added in recent years, I just can't remember them all.  But, it's more like what is shown below for California:    Plus, I don't believe the USA has four main classifications.   There are people here in California of all continents, and for the most part whites are defined as Caucasian and Blacks are defined as African Americans and have been for a long, long, long time as per their choice.  

But, just take a minute and, I think, we need to ask ourselves, how was the order made up to list of the ethnicities shown below?  As in California, Caucasian (white) is always first.  Kind of makes one think, doesn't it?  

Racial/Ethnic makeup

• 2.1Europeans
• 2.2Hispanics/Latinos
• 2.3Asian Americans
• 2.4Pacific Islanders
• 2.5Middle Eastern/North African Americans
• 2.6African Americans
• 2.7Native Americans
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California

Edited June 13, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Mollymews]

8 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Not in California though, we have these below and even more have been added in recent years, I just can't remember them all.  But, it's more like what is shown below for California:    Plus, I don't believe the USA has four main classifications.   There are people here in California of all continents, and for the most part whites are defined as Caucasian and Blacks are defined as African Americans and have been for a long, long, long time as per their choice

when it comes to government data then there are the main classifications. Then the mains are broken down further depending on what is being counted, a count which has some purpose to it

an example is breast cancer screening, Government makes some budget allocation for this.  Clinics are funded to provide this service.  The clinics begin counting and provide this data to the Health Department. The data shows that few Pacific women are availing themselves of the service. So the Department has the clinics now count Pacific women attendees by origin: Samoa, Fiji, Tonga, Tokelau, etc.  Then based on this sub-main counting the Department of Health begins a targeted informational  outreach program to the women in these communities, which results in more women coming in for screening. And sometimes the feedback results in changes to clinic examination processes, which further increases attendance 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Mollymews
ed

[Eggy UwU]

22 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Until you get your wish, we've got work to do.

You are very right on this. *grabs shovel* Let's get to work on making ourselves better!

[Paul Hexem]

14 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, we must very careful lest the test reveal we have any bias.

Way to completely miss the point.

Unless you honestly think colors on material objects is racist too.

[Aemeth Lysette]

It can be hard to talk about prejudice and racism. Some people won't react with acceptance of this right away. You'll notice a typical response at first that's incredulous, angry, and trying to blame the source of what brought the subject out into the open (most often, a person trying to talk to you about it).

It's usually a first step for that person's journey to changing. So if some people don't accept this now, don't worry. You sowed the seeds. They'll take root at some point later on.

Also, please take care of yourselves. This subject can be emotionally draining. Self-care is necessary so you don't get burned out.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Aemeth Lysette

[Dano Seale]

15 hours ago, FairreLilette said:

Not in California though, we have these below and even more have been added in recent years, I just can't remember them all.  But, it's more like what is shown below for California:    Plus, I don't believe the USA has four main classifications.   There are people here in California of all continents, and for the most part whites are defined as Caucasian and Blacks are defined as African Americans and have been for a long, long, long time as per their choice.  

But, just take a minute and, I think, we need to ask ourselves, how was the order made up to list of the ethnicities shown below?  As in California, Caucasian (white) is always first.  Kind of makes one think, doesn't it?  

Racial/Ethnic makeup

• 2.1Europeans
• 2.2Hispanics/Latinos
• 2.3Asian Americans
• 2.4Pacific Islanders
• 2.5Middle Eastern/North African Americans
• 2.6African Americans
• 2.7Native Americans
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California

It's a lot easier in the UK.
Born in the UK - "British".
Born outside of the UK - "Bloody foreigner!".

 

[Beth Macbain]

I sort of knew this story, but I didn’t know all the details.

Be like Peter.

 

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

On 6/13/2020 at 9:09 AM, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, we must very careful lest the test reveal we have any bias.

Way to completely miss the point.

Unless you honestly think colors on material objects is racist too.

You don't think that most humans have difficulty admitting to their bias, and that they would more carefully attend to or alter aspects of the experiment that would enable them to continue to feel good about themselves?

[Madelaine McMasters]

23 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You don't think that most humans have difficulty admitting to their bias, and that they would more carefully attend to or alter aspects of the experiment that would enable them to continue to feel good about themselves?

I'm able to improve my scores on implicit bias tests without, I think, doing virtually anything to actually lessen my actual implicit bias. I can't prove this, but it seems unlikely that I can erase a lifetime of bias in an afternoon, though I can shift my scores around in an hour of noodling.

It's pretty much the same with Myers-Briggs style tests, where I can park myself anywhere on the personality plot.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Madelaine McMasters

[Beth Macbain]

11 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

but it seems unlikely that I can erase a lifetime of bias in an afternoon,

You can admit you have biases, and though you can also noodle with the tests when you get the gist of what they’re doing.

If nothing else, I think the tests can help people who go through life with blinders on realize that they, too, have biases they’ve never even given a thought to.

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

bias tests and personality tests are all meaningless. you can get any score you want from them by just changing your reactions and its not that hard to do really. I took a few of them and then retook them and got almost the complete opposite score the second time.

[Amina Sopwith]

1 minute ago, Drakonadrgora Darkfold said:

bias tests and personality tests are all meaningless. you can get any score you want from them by just changing your reactions and its not that hard to do really. I took a few of them and then retook them and got almost the complete opposite score the second time.

I'd expect them to be less reliable once you know what's coming and how they test you.

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You don't think that most humans have difficulty admitting to their bias, and that they would more carefully attend to or alter aspects of the experiment that would enable them to continue to feel good about themselves?

I'm able to improve my scores on implicit bias tests without, I think, doing virtually anything to actually lessen my actual implicit bias. I can't prove this, but it seems unlikely that I can erase a lifetime of bias in an afternoon, though I can shift my scores around in an hour of noodling.

It's pretty much the same with Myers-Briggs style tests, where I can park myself anywhere on the personality plot.

Yeah I'd certainly take any of those tests with a grain of salt, though some Psychologists have more faith in them.  Long ago the Social Sciences were devalued, not seen as 'real' Scientists.  Sometimes I think they developed personality and pathology tests just to feel like 'real' Scientists. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Madelaine McMasters]

30 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

You can admit you have biases, and though you can also noodle with the tests when you get the gist of what they’re doing.

If nothing else, I think the tests can help people who go through life with blinders on realize that they, too, have biases they’ve never even given a thought to.

From a very early age, I've been interesting in the how's and why's of my own thinking. Yes, I can noodle up the test results I desire, but I also attempt to make long term improvements.

I have, however, met plenty of people who will reject tests like these out-of-hand, using them as evidence of a conspiracy to control their minds. These tests do reveal things, but we must be careful to understand they don't get at the full complexity of our thinking.

[Istelathis]

It takes a lot of humility to acknowledge the faults in one self, with the popularity of social media I have noticed a tremendous loss of it in society.  I think it is due to confirmation of like minded people, it is all too easy to find others that will agree with you on anything.  I remember taking a few of these sorts of tests years ago, and being upset at the results - as far as I was concerned I was an ethical person.  It is a real blow to the ego, to realize you are not as great as you thought, and your sense of ethics does not quite match your own personality as much as you would want.  The unfortunate thing, is none of us will ever be flawless, we will always have some biases - and that is where the humility is desperately needed, to acknowledge we are not perfect, and make mistakes, it is where we can learn to grow.

 

Now I feel like a complete hippy   

[Madelaine McMasters]

21 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

It takes a lot of humility to acknowledge the faults in one self...

If you really want a dose of humility, read Daniel Kahneman's "Thinking Fast and Slow".

Edited June 14, 2020 by Madelaine McMasters

[Drakonadrgora Darkfold]

Just had to because of the title of the thread.

[Akane Nacht]

On 6/12/2020 at 10:44 PM, Luna Bliss said:

(CNN)If you're a white person in America, social justice educator Robin DiAngelo has a message for you: You're a racist, pure and simple, and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be.

Wow. Still, I suppose it's more lucrative lecturing the advantaged people than materially assisting the disadvantaged ones. Unless that's what the author uses the book sales funds for. In which case I applaud the cleverness of this wealth reallocation scheme.

[Luna Bliss]

10 minutes ago, Akane Nacht said:

On 6/12/2020 at 9:44 AM, Luna Bliss said:

(CNN)If you're a white person in America, social justice educator Robin DiAngelo has a message for you: You're a racist, pure and simple, and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be.

Wow. Still, I suppose it's more lucrative lecturing the advantaged people than materially assisting the disadvantaged ones. Unless that's what the author uses the book sales funds for. In which case I applaud the cleverness of this wealth reallocation scheme.

Wut?

[Beth Macbain]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wut?

Someone fed the gremlins after midnight.

Best just to close the forums and go to bed. 

[Akane Nacht]

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Wut?

I was just complimenting the book author's business acumen 🙂

[Paul Hexem]

11 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

You don't think that most humans have difficulty admitting to their bias, and that they would more carefully attend to or alter aspects of the experiment that would enable them to continue to feel good about themselves?

If I show you a picture that could be an alligator or an iguana, and flash something blue like water beforehand, you'll be more likely to identify the picture as an alligator. They're more often found in water. Doesn't mean you secretly hate iguanas. 

Green like a tree would make you pro-iguana. 

So flashing a dark color before showing what could be a gun, which are usually also dark colors, of course there's going to be an association. 

Unless the test is specifically filtering for that reasonable association, you have to be careful letting it tell you you're biased. 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/10/2020 at 2:39 PM, kali Wylder said:

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway....

So, anyway, as i mentioned in a couple of other threads, the company I work for gave us a paid day off in response to the crazy whacked out state of the world these days, between the plague and the quarantine and 9 minute film of a black man killed by a white cop and the reaction it set off. I'm not black, and I do believe wholeheartedly that black lives matter.

Since I am white, I benefit by the racist status quo. This was not something I was aware of really, but I didn't have to be aware of it as I wasn't adversely affected by it. I'm not even sure how I even heard of the idea of wokeness.  I did know that it was slang for an awareness of something that I didn't have, that it was a "black" thing. And I knew I should be woke. And I knew I was not. 

So I did what I generally do about anything that troubles me, I went looking for answers on the internet and I found there were books tackling the issue and I started to read.  I read one called "I'm Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness" by Austin Channing Brown and now I'm reading "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. This white fragility is really difficult to read.  Not that it's not well written or is too complex to digest, but because of the way it makes me feel.

And since I love SL and I'm an introverted recluse whose only social outlet is SL, I would love to talk about it here.

There are wildly different reading lists and suggested behaviours and thought patterns depending on different people's ideologies so I prefer to keep it less theoretical, on the Internet with anonymous strangers, and stay in real life, where there are many things that can be done to remedy the mass crime against humanity which was slavery in the United States, and to ensure that Black Lives Matter.

Meanwhile, all the "woke" activity of especially white leftists begins to be counter-productive and to incite backlash needlessly, and I'm reminded of a very good essay on this topic by Vaclav Havel, the Power of the Powerless, which along the way makes a good point about imposing slogans on people.

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/13/2020 at 2:58 PM, FairreLilette said:

Not in California though, we have these below and even more have been added in recent years, I just can't remember them all.  But, it's more like what is shown below for California:    Plus, I don't believe the USA has four main classifications.   There are people here in California of all continents, and for the most part whites are defined as Caucasian and Blacks are defined as African Americans and have been for a long, long, long time as per their choice.  

But, just take a minute and, I think, we need to ask ourselves, how was the order made up to list of the ethnicities shown below?  As in California, Caucasian (white) is always first.  Kind of makes one think, doesn't it?  

Racial/Ethnic makeup

• 2.1Europeans
• 2.2Hispanics/Latinos
• 2.3Asian Americans
• 2.4Pacific Islanders
• 2.5Middle Eastern/North African Americans
• 2.6African Americans
• 2.7Native Americans
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_California

California is a completely different country than the rest of the United States. I recently bought a microwave oven. Scientists have proven for decades that microwaves do not cause damage to your health unless you do something stupid like put metal in it. But a big label on it said "For residents of California only" and proceeded to provide a warning that microwaves may be damaging to your health. Hilarious!

[Mollymews]

14 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

But a big label on it said "For residents of California only" and proceeded to provide a warning that microwaves may be damaging to your health

they can be if you stick your head in the oven to check what you're cooking.  I know right, but people do this. Stick their heads in places they shouldn't and then sue the manufacturer for not telling then they can fry their head when they do this