getting woke and SL

[Beth Macbain]

13 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, my Dad made good money both as a social worker and as a comedian in Hollywood and television and as a comedy writer.   So, I'd be a privileged Black girl in that situation.  Having that kind of money growing up is very sheltering although you are going to meet all kinds of people who have a fairly open mind in Hollywood.  They were kind of an open bunch of people in Hollywood at the time I was growing up often talking about ways to except others who might be considered "different".

But, just thinking of "white bread television" back then, if I were a Black girl brought onto a TV show it would have been painted as all buttercups and roses and look how anti-racist we are.  It's part of Puritanical American censorship which my family had to face; it's puritanical based and they paint it like it's perfected paradise of colored ponies that fall from heaven or some such nonsense.  Some censorship is less now but that's only in the areas where there are parental controls for cable and internet.  

So, I had a privileged life in that respect.

Now if I were a poorer Black girl, I think quite honestly to tell you the truth, I'd be afraid of this so-called freedom I'm supposed to have because what skills would I have?   I used to do odd jobs from sewing to ironing until I taught myself to type by buying a $35 dollar typewriter and getting a book from the library called "Teach Yourself to Type" and I started to get a job with my typing skills which are average.   I may have done well as a black girl in this respect as a typist because typing jobs and Data Entry jobs were prevalent at the time; our typing pools were all kinds of people though predominantly white.  

I have lived in multi-ethnic towns my whole life but not as many Black women went for the typing jobs.  Many were nurses and cafeteria workers though as I worked for hospitals as a typist.  

So, it's going to depend on which situation of income I have.  And, I think I come from a kind of a privileged area.  Many Black women have done well in the towns I've lived in.  So I don't know what it's like to come out of poverty as the minorities in the inner cities have to face.  If I had to face that I think I'd be kind of scared at all the competition I think I would have to face.  I'd think people might look down on me as some look down on some whites they call "trailer trash".  

Why are you making it all about money?

Privilege isn't necessarily about money. 

It's about driving through Brentwood - is white Fairre going to be pulled over, or is black Fairre going to be pulled over? How does the cop treat white Fairre and is it different to how the cop treats black Faiire.

It's about going shopping along the Third Street Promenade - who is going to be followed by security looking for shoplifting? White Fairre or black Fairre? Who is going to get seated faster in that restaurant - white Fairre or black Fairre? Who is going to be subjected to a stricter dress code? White Fairre or black Fairre?

Do people cross the street when they see you walking towards them? Clutch their purses, lock their car doors? How difficult is it to find a variety of shampoos for your hair? When you turn on the television, how long does it take before you see a white person? 

You're making your definition of systemic racism far too narrow.

 

[FairreLilette]

34 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Why are you making it all about money?

Privilege isn't necessarily about money. 

It's about driving through Brentwood - is white Fairre going to be pulled over, or is black Fairre going to be pulled over? How does the cop treat white Fairre and is it different to how the cop treats black Faiire.

It's about going shopping along the Third Street Promenade - who is going to be followed by security looking for shoplifting? White Fairre or black Fairre? Who is going to get seated faster in that restaurant - white Fairre or black Fairre? Who is going to be subjected to a stricter dress code? White Fairre or black Fairre?

Do people cross the street when they see you walking towards them? Clutch their purses, lock their car doors? How difficult is it to find a variety of shampoos for your hair? When you turn on the television, how long does it take before you see a white person? 

You're making your definition of systemic racism far too narrow.

 

It can be about money...tip the maitre d', you're in.  

I lived with two bi-racial families.  My two bests friends; one had a mother who was Black and a father who was White; one had a mother who was Lebanese and the father White.  We also had a city councilman in our neighborhood and us girls would walk by his house everyday.  

We were home with our Mom's 90% of the time and had a neighborhood of an open door policy - my house is your house; always eating at each other's houses for dinner too.  

Thinking about it now, I'm sure the city councilman knew all about us as did the police and deemed us quite boring as we were home with our Mom's 90% of the time.  It was one of those neighborhoods where the Mom's could be home.

Now, do you feel the police would have hassled my two best friends because they were bi-racial?  Well, I never saw it.  As far as one of my best friends hair who was half Black, she had gorgeous hair.  We had sleep over parties all the time and we did each other's hair and all kinds of stuff young teenagers do.

When we went to the store as a group of girls or bowling or whatever, we were all treated the same.  I never saw us treated any different.  I think it's because we had a city councilmen as our neighbor who knows the cops and they knew were we boring home body types of girls.  

So, I can't live the life of Beth.

To please Beth do I have to make up some prejudice I never saw?  lol   I can't do that.  That's silly.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Janet Voxel]

@Beth Macbain You want me to tag in here?

[KanryDrago]

One reason people push back against the term white privilege is because its a term coined in america then extrapolated to apply to all whites in every country.

Know who does worst educationally and who has the worst life chances in the UK?

Poor(as in from financially) white males, know the ones who have the best....the chinese and indian immigrant communities. However those poor white kids are still being told they have "White privilege" by the woke idiots over here.

I want to share an article a friend was kind enough to share with me about events a while back. Maybe it will stop some assuming every country has the issues the us has....perhaps call it "American White privilege" if you dont want to drop white privilege.

 

https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

 

[Beth Macbain]

20 minutes ago, Janet Voxel said:

@Beth Macbain You want me to tag in here?

Oh god... yes, please!

[Robin Kiyori]

I want to chine in as  someone who volunteers for an organisation that directly works in human rights advocacy. Racism, Classism,  etc,It's all interconnected. You cannot right one without  fighting the other. So let's put a pin on that for now.

As for  what privilege means when we talk about it in a human rights manner. It means the  inheritant social/political, etc advantages  one has due to their race, class, etc. It does not mean that your  life was all sunshine and rainbows. Due to again,  how those axis' of  oppression and disadvantage often work. By being white.  one has the advantage of living  in a system that values light skin and  where it's viewed as a default. This is true not just in america,  but a majority of countries in the world. 

I'll write more once my  computer is less of a mess.

[Robin Kiyori]

3 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

One reason people push back against the term white privilege is because its a term coined in america then extrapolated to apply to all whites in every country.

Know who does worst educationally and who has the worst life chances in the UK?

Poor(as in from financially) white males, know the ones who have the best....the chinese and indian immigrant communities. However those poor white kids are still being told they have "White privilege" by the woke idiots over here.

I want to share an article a friend was kind enough to share with me about events a while back. Maybe it will stop some assuming every country has the issues the us has....perhaps call it "American White privilege" if you dont want to drop white privilege.

 

https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

 

...As a White Northern Irish person that is a bunch of utter  nonsense.

England was the birthplace of colonialism.   Poor white folk here. (inculding myself) have it way easier then anyone of darker skin, with the only exceptions being  Irish travellers and Eastern Europeans. Again prvilege doesn't mean a life free of misery.  The Uk hates all poor, non cis, non het,  non neurotypical people.  But don't try to pretend white privilege is an american only thing.

[KanryDrago]

Just now, Robin Kiyori said:

...As a White Northern Irish person that is a bunch of utter  nonsense.

England was the birthplace of colonialism.   Poor white folk here. (inculding myself) have it way easier then anyone of darker skin, with the only exceptions being  Irish travellers and Eastern Europeans. Again prvilege doesn't mean a life free of misery.  The Uk hates all poor, non cis, non het,  non neurotypical people.  But don't try to pretend white privilege is an american only thing.

I am from a poor background too, I see figures you quote feelings. 20% of university students are of bame origin(uk resident only) 12% of the population are. It is a  fact that the group with highest average earnings is the indians and chinese and jewish communities, the one with the lowest average earnings is those white from your average council estate. You see a different country to the one I and friends see and seeing as I live in a town with a white british population of a mere 36% I think I would be be more likely to come across this discrimination than someone from Northern ireland which I believe has one of the lowest level of BAME in the UK. Sorry you can make all the claims you want but if you dont have stats to back it up then you don't have a case.

Is there racism in the mainland UK yes of course there is. What people like you can never explain though is why do the Hindu Indian community do so well whereas Muslim communities from Pakistan do so badly. Without asking there is no way of telling one from the other so the difference can't be racism, not that stops those like you claiming it is.

[Robin Kiyori]

..I ..did you miss the part about my place of work? None of my  words are based on feelings, but on fact.  Look at the poltical goals of  brexit and  the parties that pushed hard for it. Look for the direct quotes from the very prime minster himself about black people and Muslims. 

But if you want sources.:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/12/british-history-slavery-buried-scale-revealed

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/austerity-nostalgia-racism-and-xenophobia/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/15/britains-most-racist-election-smethwick-50-years-on

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/apr/22/lawrence.ukcrime

Also actually. Northern Ireland (which is part of the uk..) is  https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ulster-is-race-hate-capital-of-europe-264958.html  well that. 

 

 

 

 

[Beth Macbain]

30 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

To please Beth do I have to make up some prejudice I never saw?  lol   I can't do that.  That's silly.  

Are you saying that black people who have experienced those things, or white people who have see those things happen to black people, are making them up? They're all lying? 

I'm simply asking you to acknowledge that it happens. It happens in your neighborhood, I guarantee it happened in your childhood neighborhood, it happens in every city in every state. I will bet every single breath in my body that you have been treated differently because you are white - whether you know it or not. I'd also be willing to bet that if we asked your two bi-racial best friends if they'd experienced it in your presence without you even noticing it, they'd say they had. 

@Janet Voxel - Can we make an exception for blackface when it involves sending white people out on their own to experience life as a black person?

[Janet Voxel]

43 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

One reason people push back against the term white privilege is because its a term coined in america then extrapolated to apply to all whites in every country.

Know who does worst educationally and who has the worst life chances in the UK?

Poor(as in from financially) white males, know the ones who have the best....the chinese and indian immigrant communities. However those poor white kids are still being told they have "White privilege" by the woke idiots over here.

I want to share an article a friend was kind enough to share with me about events a while back. Maybe it will stop some assuming every country has the issues the us has....perhaps call it "American White privilege" if you dont want to drop white privilege.

 

https://theconversation.com/black-troops-were-welcome-in-britain-but-jim-crow-wasnt-the-race-riot-of-one-night-in-june-1943-98120

 

I would say Asians and South Asians tend to do better in North America overall too, but that's a cultural thing as to why that is. But UK has about the same percentage of black people (although they are primarily from the caribbean and Africa) as the US correct? How do they do vs white children? You kind of left that part out.

[Janet Voxel]

25 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Are you saying that black people who have experienced those things, or white people who have see those things happen to black people, are making them up? They're all lying? 

I'm simply asking you to acknowledge that it happens. It happens in your neighborhood, I guarantee it happened in your childhood neighborhood, it happens in every city in every state. I will bet every single breath in my body that you have been treated differently because you are white - whether you know it or not. I'd also be willing to bet that if we asked your two bi-racial best friends if they'd experienced it in your presence without you even noticing it, they'd say they had. 

@Janet Voxel - Can we make an exception for blackface when it involves sending white people out on their own to experience life as a black person?

wait...wait..I'm coming. I have to finish up some work and this is going to be a loooong reply.

There is a book called "Black Like me" from the 60's that's a pretty powerful read.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Janet Voxel

[Amina Sopwith]

Small note: tuition fees have been increasing like crazy for many years now at UK universities, and they're highest of all for students from overseas. We do indeed have a fair number of minority students from other countries, but they are from very wealthy backgrounds; they couldn't possibly afford to study here if they weren't. This absolutely does NOT mean that white privilege and all it means is erased for them while they're here (since Brexit, this has become a nastier and nastier place to be a foreigner), but it does mean that BAME numbers at universities are inflated by wealthy people coming in from overseas. In other words, it's not a case of typical home-grown BAME people all sailing up to university and beyond because it's so easy for them.

[KanryDrago]

1 minute ago, Janet Voxel said:

I would say Asians and South Asians tend to do better in North America overall too, but that's a cultural thing as to why that is. But UK has about the same percentage of black people (although they are primarily from the caribbean and Africa) as the US correct? How do they do vs white children? You kind of left that part out.

We have about 3% black, you have about 13% I believe. The black community does not come out much better than poor white on average. The reason I cited the indian hindu vs pakistan muslim was to mere point out that the difference in outcomes cannot be down to racism because as I said unless you ask there is no real way of telling. India and Pakistan being one country for many years before partitition. I do not think the white poor doing well is however down to racism. I think classism is more the problem in the uk. Poor white and black communities sharing some common problems and who is to blame.

1) Teachers not expecting much of them and pushing them to do better and aim higher......... institutional problem

2) A lack of belief in the value of education , the it doesn't matter you will never get a break, parents not reading to them at home or encouraging them.......community problem

3) Lack of good rolemodels......absent fathers play a big part in this......community problem

Now the controversial bit

parts 2 & 3 are worse for the black community because of anti racists in many ways. If you tell poor whites they are parenting poorly and perhaps need to do something about it no one bats an eye lid, do the same for the black community and you will have various woke people writing articles in the guardian branding you racist. There are many good black role models however often they feel to speak out and say there are problems in their community which are the community fault, Trevor Philips is a good example. However when they do they get epithets thrown at them by the woke such as coconut, uncle tom, racial gatekeeper

[KanryDrago]

8 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Small note: tuition fees have been increasing like crazy for many years now at UK universities, and they're highest of all for students from overseas. We do indeed have a fair number of minority students from other countries, but they are from very wealthy backgrounds; they couldn't possibly afford to study here if they weren't. This absolutely does NOT mean that white privilege and all it means is erased for them while they're here (since Brexit, this has become a nastier and nastier place to be a foreigner), but it does mean that BAME numbers at universities are inflated by wealthy people coming in from overseas. In other words, it's not a case of typical home-grown BAME people all sailing up to university and beyond because it's so easy for them.

I was quoting figures for students resident normally in the uk not over seas students which was why I put (UK residents) after the figure. 

 

Also to note around 60% of thos tuition fees will never get paid as the debt only comes due as a deduction from wages after a certain income and any unpaid gets wiped after I think 30 years

Edited June 26, 2020 by KanryDrago

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:39 AM, kali Wylder said:

Why it can feel hard to talk about racial inequality, and why you should do it anyway....

I'm reading "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism" by Robin DiAngelo. This white fragility is really difficult to read.  Not that it's not well written or is too complex to digest, but because of the way it makes me feel.

Code talk.

As a POC... when we're around whites we communicate differently than when around others of our various kinds (and usually we revert to 'code talk' when 'talking across the lines' to someone of another race because it's just so ingrained and feels like 'appropriation' when you do something else).

Code talk is something that has evolved because... letting white people know how you feel can be a lethally dangerous thing to do. Trying to get them to acknowledge you on your terms rather than on theirs can be and often is the last thing you ever do in your life.

Imagine if LGBTQ people 'came out of the closet' but then also still lived 'closeted'... That's code talk. You're stuck in a glass closet - everyone can see what you are, but you cannot get out and live it or they might end you.

So you 'act straight' all the time, and they even complement you on 'how not gay' you are managing to be, or how you're 'not like those other fairies (*)', or how good it is to meet 'one that isn't listening to Cher all the time' as if that is what you should be proud of... imagine the weight of that.

 

White Fragility is a term meant to smash through that a bit. It is purposefully stated to be uncomfortable. But people in power anywhere in the world get extremely unfriendly when asked to see the balance of power or empathize with the point of view of those outside their circle.

I know a lot of Asians. NOT Asian Americans, but Asians - as in people who were born, raised, and live or up till recently always lived in Asia. So I've also seen 'Asian Fragility' - and there is no one who will more quickly and more strongly deny racism exists in Asia than someone from there who has always lived in a system built by their kin for them. But one thing it has let me do is directly expose some white friends to my perspective - whites I met in Asia, who would come to me talking about how Asia was the most racist place in the world... and until they'd said it, I hadn't noticed the racism at all - the place just seemed like home to me, minus the part about being arrested or stalked by police... (ps: if you think we will solve racism by fixing the police, spend a year in Korea - nicest cops you will ever meet. Wonderful folks in fact... but the racism is still there - you just don't end up in a chock hold over it. Police are not the problem, they are tool corrupted by it).

 

Anyway... everyone who is a 'majority' person in the nation they live in should read up on 'White Fragility' while also realizing that the concept is describing them... even if they're not white... it's a concept about the people who benefit from a given society and how they react to having the structures that give them that benefit exposed before them.

 

(*) fairies as in - they will categorize "you people" in terms that they think are not offensive but are still... awkward at best... when said in such a manner by someone outside the community... Also... I know Cher is a dated reference by almost 2 decades... that's on purpose just like the analogy it's a stand in for... 😉

 

Edited June 26, 2020 by Pussycat Catnap

[Amina Sopwith]

25 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

I was quoting figures for students resident normally in the uk not over seas students which was why I put (UK residents) after the figure. 

 

Also to note around 60% of thos tuition fees will never get paid as the debt only comes due as a deduction from wages after a certain income and any unpaid gets wiped after I think 30 years

Many overseas students get residency in the UK, especially if they study here for a long time, for example as medical students or if they do a lot of postgrad study. It's not the same as getting actual UK nationality, although I do know some overseas medical students who got British passports after graduating here then working in the NHS for several years.

The tuition fee doesn't get wiped, the student loan that paid for it does, and overseas students don't get that loan. They definitely have to pay their fees. Pretty much all UK students take out the student loan, and any amount they don't repay gets written off when they're either 65 or 25 years after they were due to start repaying it (or something like that), depending on the years in which they studied. But the fee itself gets paid. And overseas students need to pay or they don't get their place. The universities don't care where the money comes from, perhaps it's a loan from back home, but however they do it, they need to pay. 

The universities need the income from overseas students, too.

[KanryDrago]

2 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

Many overseas students get residency in the UK, especially if they study here for a long time, for example as medical students or if they do a lot of postgrad study. It's not the same as getting actual UK nationality, although I do know some overseas medical students who got British passports after graduating here then working in the NHS for several years.

The tuition fee doesn't get wiped, the student loan that paid for it does, and overseas students don't get that loan. They definitely have to pay their fees. Pretty much all UK students take out the student loan, and any amount they don't repay gets written off when they're either 65 or 25 years after they were due to start repaying it (or something like that), depending on the years in which they studied. But the fee itself gets paid. And overseas students need to pay or they don't get their place. The universities don't care where the money comes from, perhaps it's a loan from back home, but however they do it, they need to pay. 

The universities need the income from overseas students, too.

by uk resident I meant uk nationals overseas students resident or not are not in that figure

 

as to whether its the loan or the fee that gets wiped that doesnt really matter from the students perspective, they didnt pay it

Edited June 26, 2020 by KanryDrago

[Amina Sopwith]

11 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

by uk resident I meant uk nationals overseas students resident or not are not in that figure

 

as to whether its the loan or the fee that gets wiped that doesnt really matter from the students perspective, they didnt pay it

Well, I don't have figures to hand about percentages of unrepaid student loans over a lifetime (I don't think loans instead of grants have been in place long enough for there to be much information about that; everyone who graduated at 21 with a loan instead of a grant is still working age), but overseas students certainly have to stump up one way or another. You could argue it's mostly their families rather than the individual and that may be true, but the fact remains that they have to have access to significant wealth or else they simply would not be here. They absolutely still experience racism issues when they're here, I'm sorry to say, but they do have a large financial advantage that isn't typical of the home-grown community and usually not typical of the country they're from either.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Amina Sopwith

[Nika Talaj]

2 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I sometimes wonder if that's what provokes them to be so violent. They know they'e at the bottom and are just one step above those they are beating, choking, and killing in the eyes of the people higher up on the pole, and that they'll never climb higher because although they were born with white privilege, there were many other whites born with much more privilege. 

THIS

The violence is born of rage, and a simmering sense of grievance.  Trump has a gut-level understanding that clear articulation of GRIEVANCE (no matter what about) is the soul of his support among the whites who propelled him to his current position.

Many whites are fiercely defending a system of white supremacy that used to serve them and their families well, but no longer really does.  They will always resist acknowledging that they have any sort of privilege because their lives, looked at objectively, SUCK.  They really do have reasons to be aggrieved!  Why does health care suck so badly that an adult son with a back problem, a nonworking wife, and 2 kids gets addicted to opioids, steals his parents' car, and cracks it up?  Thousands of alcoholics want to know who let environmentalists take away logging as a career and offer only what turned out to be completely inappropriate training to become 'knowledge workers'?  Formerly middle-class whites in Detroit are still wondering how they became slum-dwellers.

There's a potential for our grievances to actually bind blacks and whites together - we have so many in common.  But powermongers have succeeded in deflecting responsibility for America's problems  away from the wealth that has disappeared into their own pockets.  Instead of blaming societal impoverishment for their grievances, whites are being encouraged to load blame onto immigrants, blacks, latinx ... mysterious 'others' who are just as badly off, if not more so.  There is no truth to any of these 'causes' for whites' very real problems.

And blacks can blame whites.  Across the board, no matter how wretched a white person's life may be, they are to blame.  It's true in a way, because even in the worst dollar store there is racism ... but not, at this end of history, helpful.

Runaway capitalism has created a nonfunctioning society in the US.  I'm REALLY glad that BLM has reached the visibility it has, because now many Americans believe that the US will never be truly fixed until it is fixed for all.  This is true.

But we have to stop bickering about who is more wounded.

3 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

Got to let go of the winning, let go of the debate.  If that's the goal then you've already lost.  The goal is understanding each other. Promoting more understanding, seeing each other as fully human, that's my goal.

"Whole sight; or all the rest is desolation"  john fowles

 

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

but the racism is still there - you just don't end up in a chock hold over it. Police are not the problem, they are tool corrupted by it

 

Police are most definitely a problem in America.  The police forces need to be reformed, no ifs, ands or buts about it.  Qualified immunity which the police granted unto themselves needs to be over-turned in all states.  

Moving on the thread about being "woke". 

Now, regarding being "woke".  

Let me give a hypothetical about a problem and I will use Green and Blue people.  

Okay, the Green people's children are being kidnapped and drugged by the Blue people at an alarming rate.  This practice of the Blue people kidnapping the Green people's children needs to stop, and all the people agree in regards to Blue people that are doing this.  So, once the problem is ended with the Blue people kidnapping and drugging the Green's peoples children are all the Blue people now to blame?  

Edited June 26, 2020 by FairreLilette

[srv4u Conacher]

hello

Edited June 26, 2020 by srv4u Conacher

[Luna Bliss]

41 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

Police are most definitely a problem in America.  The police forces need to be reformed, no ifs, ands or buts about it.  Qualified immunity which the police granted unto themselves needs to be over-turned in all states.  

Moving on the thread about being "woke". 

Now, regarding being "woke".  

Let me give a hypothetical about a problem and I will use Green and Blue people.  

Okay, the Green people's children are being kidnapped and drugged by the Blue people at an alarming rate.  This practice of the Blue people kidnapping the Green people's children needs to stop, and all the people agree in regards to Blue people that are doing this.  So, once the problem is ended with the Blue people kidnapping and drugging the Green's peoples children are all the Blue people now to blame?  

Pussycat's full quote was:

"(ps: if you think we will solve racism by fixing the police, spend a year in Korea - nicest cops you will ever meet. Wonderful folks in fact... but the racism is still there - you just don't end up in a chock hold over it. Police are not the problem, they are tool corrupted by it)."

The purpose of being woke is to develop awareness of racial injustice and become a less racist society.
Pussycat's goal (stated in her paragraph) is also to end racism.
If we get the police to change some procedures so they are less violent this would be great -- it might end the knee to the neck and laws which enable police to get away with too much (like qualified immunity), but it would not end racism. They would still profile blacks unfairly, and arrest more blacks unfairly. So only fixing the police in ways you stated would not help the goal of ending racism.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Pussycat's full quote was:

"(ps: if you think we will solve racism by fixing the police, spend a year in Korea - nicest cops you will ever meet. Wonderful folks in fact... but the racism is still there - you just don't end up in a chock hold over it. Police are not the problem, they are tool corrupted by it)."

The purpose of being woke is to develop awareness of racial injustice and become a less racist society.
Pussycat's goal (stated in her paragraph) is also to end racism.
If we get the police to change some procedures so they are less violent this would be great -- it might end the knee to the neck and laws which enable police to get away with too much (like qualified immunity), but it would not end racism.

Yes. Police manifest the problem - they are not the problem in and of themselves.

Basically fixing the police is like taking cold medicine when sick - your headache might go away but you're also still sick. The headache and sniffles weren't the illness, they were symptoms - there is still a virus in you.

That said we DO want to take that cold medicine, but we ALSO and even more importantly need to cure the illness itself.

 

Maybe that makes what I was trying to say a little clearer?

 

 

[Innula Zenovka]

11 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

OMG its like hitting my head against the wall. DID YOU READ WHAT I SAID? Let me quote myself:

 

Congratulations you have also made my block list and join the esteemed company of only one other person who was a spammer years ago. 👏

You've not read the paper you're discussing at such length, have you?

In particular, you haven't read Section 3, Experimental Design, which explains how they produced the resumes and conducted the experiment (pages 6-9).

https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873.pdf

 

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Innula Zenovka