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Handy tip from Twitter:

"Netflix has created an entire collection of movies - named Black Lives Matter - for you to learn more about racial injustice and black experiences in America. They are literally making it easy for you to learn, so if you choose to be ignorant still, that speaks volumes."

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I think the crux of the matter is that the reluctance to talk about racism is misconstrued as racist.  That is where the whole fragile meme comes from.  Too fragile to discuss difficult topics.  The problem is that racism will not go away by itself.  The other thing is that acknowledging racism exists does not equal we whites are bad racist people.  It means we are willing to look at the unhappy truth that we benefit by doing nothing since the deck is stacked in our favor.  I want to throw out the stacked deck and the only way to do that is to recognize it is there.

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6 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

I think the crux of the matter is that the reluctance to talk about racism is misconstrued as racist.

I came across an interesting article addressing this by Robin DiAngelo. I might cut Whites a little more slack than she does because we really can't help what we're unaware of. Perhaps the issue also revolves around just how we define 'racism'.

(CNN)If you're a white person in America, social justice educator Robin DiAngelo has a message for you: You're a racist, pure and simple, and without a lifetime of conscious effort you always will be.

You just can't help it, you see, because you've been swaddled in the cocoon of white privilege since you came sputtering out of your mother's womb, protesting the indignity of it all.
You may be indignantly sputtering right now at this insult to your humanity -- for how can you be a racist? You have black colleagues you consider friends; you don't see skin color; you never owned slaves; you marched in the 60s; you even protest today against the uniformed "bad apples" that use the power of their authority to smother minority lives and minority rights.
"How dare you say I am anything like them?" you grumble, as you pull the cloak of your bruised and fragile feelings around you.
And there -- with that simple act -- you personify the theme of DiAngelo's best selling 2018 book, "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard For White People To Talk About Racism."
 
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Going to post this here, and try to woo @JanuarySwan over to this thread instead of the other one, since our conversations are more about understanding systemic racism, and being able to see it around us. 

This is a little long, but it has some very good information in it about how the Black, Hispanic, and Native American communities get absolutely screwed by the criminal justice system in the US from the street, to the courts, to the jails and prisons, and what happens post-release.

Report to the United Nations on Racial Disparities in the U.S. Criminal Justice System

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I'm sitting in on another Zoom meeting with coworkers talking about race... we're SELFing.  

Someone shared this link to some Implicit Association tests. No one needs to share their results, but it's something to think about.

Project Implicit

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Posted (edited)

I've been taking such implicit bias tests for years. It's remarkable how difficult it is to shift my score meaningfully over time, though I have made progress. I took the weapons test and produced a "slight" association of weapons with black people. This is despite my real world experience being entirely of white people carrying weapons. My extended family contains a significant number of Second Amendment advocates with open carry permits. They are not allowed in my home with weapons. One of them has declined invitations to holiday celebrations as a result. His absence is greatly appreciated.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

His absence is greatly appreciated.

People in Kentucky think I'm bizarre because I just flat out won't associate with people who have guns. There are people I work with that I know have guns in their cars. Go to lunch with them? NOPE! I've left restaurants before because I've spotted guns on people who are clearly not law enforcement on duty. I hate 'em. HATE THEM.

I've only done the skin tone bias test so far, and I was pretty pleased with my results but I'm also aware that I was slowing down and having to think more than I wanted to a couple of times.

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I just did the Presidential bias one. I'm shocked - SHOCKED - that I show a strong preference for Thomas Jefferson over Donald Trump. 

If they wanted to make it hard, they should have used Hitler.

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

I've only done the skin tone bias test so far, and I was pretty pleased with my results but I'm also aware that I was slowing down and having to think more than I wanted to a couple of times.

My bias decreases as I spend more time, and the tests I've taken don't seem to penalize me much for that. I can slow down to perfection, but that's not how the real world works. I zip through them as quickly as possible, because I'm pretending to be in a situation where there's no time to think.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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@Beth Macbain and @Madelaine McMasters I was surprised to discover I moderately favor Transgendered over Cisgendered. I knew I liked my nephew, but I didn't' realize I liked him that much! I did the racial one and got the result I expected but didn't like. Have to work on that some more.

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Posted (edited)

Gender-career test, neutral.

Religion, neutral (more accurately, ambivalent)

Weight - slight preference for thin
This, I think, is the result of my awareness of the health issues associated with obesity and the difficulty people have with weight control, which leads me away from fat-shaming to fat-caring. I want everybody to be healthy. I have obese friends and I've explained my concern. So far I've had nothing but good responses.

Sexuality - Strong automatic preference for gay over straight (where were these tests when I was a teen?!)

Science - strong association with female (well duh!)

 

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Science - strong association with female (well duh!)

That's the only one I've tried so far. I got a slight association of science with male. 

(Well duh!)

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In my opinion, I just wish people would get along and realize that no matter who you are, what you do, who you like - these things do not define you.

That's my two cents.

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2 hours ago, Ignis Dismantled said:

In my opinion, I just wish people would get along and realize that no matter who you are, what you do, who you like - these things do not define you.

That's my two cents.

Until you get your wish, we've got work to do.

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a tweet from some person

"language is a funny thing. Sometimes a person who can pronounce Daenerys Targaryen quite easily has difficulty pronouncing Ahmed"

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16 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

I'm shocked - SHOCKED - that I show a strong preference for Thomas Jefferson over Donald Trump.

I don't see why "shocked" Beth? I mean, they both could have used the same family 'motto' of "profit above all"!  In fact, Jefferson is probably the last persons name to be invoked in a discussion about being "woke" to BLM and racism.
 Jefferson insisted that a multiracial society with free black people was impossible, but Washington did not think so. Never did Washington suggest that blacks were inferior or that they should be exiled. "
A bit of a "bad egg" was old Tommy boy it seems when you scratch the surface!

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

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You have to be careful with those implicit bias tests.

They might tell you "See, you associate black people with guns and crime!", but consider that most guns are made of black polymers and bad guys in all the movies for the past eternity or so have preferred dark and black colors. Your "bias" might not be for the black person that was flashed briefly on the screen, but the dark color of the shape that might have been a face that your brain didn't even have time to register.

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27 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

bad guys in all the movies for the past eternity or so have preferred dark and black colors

I take all this stuff with a grain of salt. Scientific American would have you believe that black has been associated with evil for the past eternity.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-color-of-sin/

An analysis of the "bad guys wear black" in movies says otherwise.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-counterintuitive-history-of-black-hats-white-hats-and-villains

Nevertheless, I enjoy finding new ways to think that move the needle on those implicit bias tests.

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1 hour ago, Paul Hexem said:

You have to be careful with those implicit bias tests.

They might tell you "See, you associate black people with guns and crime!", but consider that most guns are made of black polymers and bad guys in all the movies for the past eternity or so have preferred dark and black colors. Your "bias" might not be for the black person that was flashed briefly on the screen, but the dark color of the shape that might have been a face that your brain didn't even have time to register.

Yes, we must very careful lest the test reveal we have any bias.

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

I take all this stuff with a grain of salt. Scientific American would have you believe that black has been associated with evil for the past eternity.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-color-of-sin/

An analysis of the "bad guys wear black" in movies says otherwise.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-counterintuitive-history-of-black-hats-white-hats-and-villains

Nevertheless, I enjoy finding new ways to think that move the needle on those implicit bias tests.

strangely enough that is only a western view.. in some eastern countries, white is considered the bad color and black is considered the good color.

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

 

I take all this stuff with a grain of salt. Scientific American would have you believe that black has been associated with evil for the past eternity.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-color-of-sin/

An analysis of the "bad guys wear black" in movies says otherwise.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-counterintuitive-history-of-black-hats-white-hats-and-villains

Nevertheless, I enjoy finding new ways to think that move the needle on those implicit bias tests.

I was just looking at older western movie clips because I know a lot didn't have white hats or wear all white..

But in my search I did find some ridiculous things.. there was some really bad examples of what really happened in history..

Like the Gun Fight at the O.K. Corral 

It's like a Wild West version of a Dolomite fist fight..hehehehe

 

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2 minutes ago, ArgontheDevil Ormega said:

I'm going back to sleep.

sweet dreams

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5 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

I don't see why "shocked" Beth? I mean, they both could have used the same family 'motto' of "profit above all"!  In fact, Jefferson is probably the last persons name to be invoked in a discussion about being "woke" to BLM and racism.
 Jefferson insisted that a multiracial society with free black people was impossible, but Washington did not think so. Never did Washington suggest that blacks were inferior or that they should be exiled. "
A bit of a "bad egg" was old Tommy boy it seems when you scratch the surface!

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-dark-side-of-thomas-jefferson-35976004/

One of my favourite 18th-century authors, Samuel Johnson, wrote a pamphlet in 1775 against the American Revolution called "Taxation No Tyranny." Johnson, although a "Tory" in many regards, was a fierce abolitionist and anti-imperialist: although his pamphlet is in many regards wrong-headed, the most quoted line from it has a certain resonance even today:

Quote

How is it that we hear the loudest yelps for liberty among the drivers of Negroes?

His views are also a useful rejoinder to those who argue for a kind of historical relativism, that "everyone in those days thought slavery was fine." A very great many, like Johnson, loathed it, and were very vocal in their opposition.

(His use of "yelps" here, as many commentators have noted, is particularly brilliant: it evokes the dogs used to herd and hunt down slaves.)

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On 6/12/2020 at 10:36 AM, Madelaine McMasters said:

My extended family contains a significant number of Second Amendment advocates with open carry permits. They are not allowed in my home with weapons. One of them has declined invitations to holiday celebrations as a result. His absence is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!  Just thanks.  

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