Official Tilia Q&A Forum Thread (Related Questions Only)

[LittleMe Jewell]

15 minutes ago, emilia Avindar said:

Regarding "alt" accounts; will each and every alt be required to verify through Tilia when logging in during August or later, even if they have no history nor any intention of ever cashing out in US Dollars?

OR, will payment information on file be adequate to associate them with my "main account" info?

Thanks for any clarity on this, and sorry if the question has already been addressed.

Every account will have to accept the Tilia TOS.

The only ones that will have to provide any identifying docs are those actually cashing money out  of SL.

[BlueSean Yiyuan]

Hi, as a EU resident, in, 2014   Linden Lab asked me to sign a W8BEN to verify my identity

 Do i have to send  the informations you already have again? thanks

 

 

[ShibariKate]

IF Tilia impacts ONLY members with USD in their account, or who process credits from SL into their RL accounts, and IF those of us who are not impacted by Tilia in any way refuse to accept the Tilia terms come August 1rst, then will we be prevented from accessing SL ?

because the way i see it, it has nothing to do with me, and it never will either, and as you mentioned, it is only a subsidiary of LL / SL, therefore should not impact SL directly to prevent logging in and enjoying my friends and my second life here. it would be a direct conflict of interest by denying access to anyone refusing the terms of Tilia, unless they use the service itse;f directly.

i am telling you now, i am planning not to accept the terms of Tilia on August 1rst, so i am hoping my second life will not be impacted by this. i look forward to your answer, LL

 

thank you

[Skell Dagger]

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There are a lot of British residents here who are asking the same question, and the "Citizen Card" option has been suggested but not, so far as I know, endorsed by LL itself.

Citizen Card is not a UK government issued ID card; it's issued by a not-for-profit business (the cost of the card is currently £15, which I assume covers administration fees). Its primary use is for those who are over the age of 18 (but who look young enough to get 'carded') to gain access to clubs and bars, as it's more of a proof of age card than an official identity card. It's recognised by the police, but the only form of governmental recognition that it has is the PASS (Proof of Age Standards Scheme) logo, which is a scheme supported by the Home Office.

We went through all of this with the age verification through Aristotle hullaballoo in 2007. My memory of it is a bit sketchy, but as I recall it was suggested that UK residents could submit the following valid proofs of ID:

• Valid full driving license
• Valid 10-year passport
• Birth certificate (fairly certain the requirement was for the original and not a copy)
• National Insurance number (the UK equivalent to the US Social Security number)

That last one is amusing, since the NI number is not used to identify people in the same way that the US SSN appears to be. Only three entities ever get to know it: the DWP (Department of Work & Pensions), your employer (if you're in employment), and yourself. It is never shared or given out to any other body as a form of identification. I memorised my NI number within weeks of it being issued to me at the age of 16. There is no public database for someone's identity to be validated against regarding the NI number, and anyone who tells you otherwise is pulling your leg.

To Linden Lab (and to keep my post on topic so that it's not removed as irrelevant to the discussion) - You have suggested that non-US residents can wait until verification goes live and then contact support, but your support staff will probably be utterly swamped at that point. I would strongly suggest that someone on your team looks into the largest country demographics that access the platform and investigate what will constitute an acceptable form of ID for those countries, and then make an updated post listing those forms of identification. Give people concrete data to work with!

Also, I'm adding my voice to the call for simpler language. Because the phrase "process credit" has been used in the blog post and subsequently, many residents who have no idea that means "cashing money OUT of Second Life" are assuming it means "processing any kind of credit, either in or out" - which includes L$ purchases. (Hell, I've been here for 12 years, have never cashed out, and even I had to stop and think for a minute with regard to exactly what that phrase meant.) A little more clarity of language in the first place - such as parentheses explaining what process credit actually is - could have averted a lot of the fraught posts we're now seeing. Take it from someone who works as a support representative inworld: the Dummies' Guide approach is usually the best one, even if one or two more knowledgeable and experienced residents may feel they're being talked down to as if they're idiots.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[Linden Lab]

 

Hi everyone,

We’ve added a few more Tilia related questions with answers to the main post above - please take a moment to review that update.

We were hoping to have a few more answers ready, however since a lot of these questions involve matters of compliance and privacy, it is taking us a bit longer to finalize all the necessary information to address some of the more complex questions raised. We will resume responding to those on Monday. Why next week? Well, due to the July 4th holiday, we won't have anything new to add to the topic here until after this weekend.

We are also planning to hold a "Tilia Town Hall" in the near future and will announce details of when and where that will take place as soon as possible. The details of time and date will most likely be announced early next week - so keep a watch on this thread for that info.

In the meantime, please keep this thread to questions only. It will make it much easier for us to address as many of those as possible when we get back. 

Thanks again for your patience!

[sodasullivan]

Has there ever been an actual instance of anyone caught laundering money via Second Life? It is a reason given over and over again for all this. Exactly when and where was a drug king pin or terrorist organization found to have been using lindens to launder their ill gotten gains? There are just 100 easier ways to do it. And if their have been no actual recorded occurrences, then a foreign entity requiring all my personal data seems kind of "fishy" and far more suspect and far more of a threat than an imagined money laundering scheme.
Since I cash out, LL already has my ID and my personal info EXCEPT for my SS number. Throwing that in the mix and giving it to a company located in the UK seems like you are inviting crime (identity theft) instead of trying to thwart it. Every bank and government agency tells you NEVER to give your SSN to someone online. This is just common sense. The SSN requirement should be a no go. If the information I give to paypal is enough for them, it should certainly be enough for you! WHy are you requiring SSN when this is known as bad behavior?

Edited July 3, 2019 by sodasullivan

[SissyAlex Starship]

how are you going to prevent identity theft?

some info you ask for is against some countries regulations

and every bank and gov't agency tells you to never give your SSN (social security number) online

think you should drop asking for SSN,  you should give alternatives to that

paypal never asked for SSN, so you really should not either

 

 

[Jeweliette Darkfold]

If we never cash out, will the mandatory tilia accounts still be created? This seems like it tiptoes along the same line of the issue that happened with Wells Fargo banks in the US where unused accounts were opened by the banks and they were never used by the owners of the accounts. I believe that Wells Fargo got in a lot of hot water over doing this and was sued, isn't what you're doing just as risky? If someone never intends to use these accounts I would think it'd be pretty unethical to force a banking like account onto your users. Shouldn't this required account only be applicable if and when a user tries to cash out, and not enforced on every user? Seems fishy and unethical to me.

[LittleMe Jewell]

In theory, this should be an easy question:  Why have we not all gotten emails about this? 

Some people have, so obviously an email went out.  I get emails about other things, so I know that LL can send me emails.  Did  the emails only go to people that met certain criteria or is the email system somewhat broken?  If I wasn't one of the folks that actually reads the blogs and visits the forums, I truly would have wondered what the heck was going on come Aug 1 when I had to accept a TOS for some company I'd never heard of.

[Winston Ackland]

Are American SL residents going to be taxed on USD removed from SL?

[Random Person]

2 important questions regarding the Tilia topic  --

Question #1:  Does @Linden Lab have plans to add optional 2-step verification support for resident accounts before Tilia requests sensitive data internationally from everyone cashing out money?  If no, will they provide this support later on?

Question #2:  Will Tilia accept DNA samples as a form of identification?

 

[Selene Gregoire]

The main thing is the ID needs to be issued by your government at what ever level of government issues one. In the US that means state or federal such as military ID (federal), police ID (state), driver's license (state), etc. A photo ID issued by a government agency. If a country does not issue a photo ID at a federal, state or local government level then poeple need to contact LL to find out what documentation they (the people, not LL) can obtain that will satisfy the legal requirements LL claims they must meet.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[Jilroxy Bonetto]

- Would it not be easier for you as well as SL Residents to have a section on the SL account page that states: Do you want to cash out? - Then let the resident follow the procedure and make them open up a Tilia account with the need of providing the relevant information/documentation and agreeing to the terms?
(Similar to the process of being able to upload mesh - not every resident has to do it.)
This would be a clear process a) on the procedure and b) on the TOS
Forcing everyone to this Tilia account - without a need for the SL service itself is in my eyes a huge workload for you - and a matter for rumble in the community.

- Have you ever thought about the fact, that UK is about to leave the EU? (Brexit)
If this happens, it is very likely, that the UK will have their own regulations outside the GDPR etc. - What happens to EU residents then? - also in regard to GDPR regulations, maybe different tax regulations etc.?

I would really appreciate, if Linden Lab gets their lawyers on board - get those really important things sorted out first - and then inform the community about the upcoming changes.
Currently there is a lot of confusion - not only for US residents - but even more for EU located folks.

Thank you.

[Cry Hawker]

1. What kind of ID documents are needed for non US citizens. I understand a passport ID. What else is accepted. We need a complete list please.

So you inform us one month prior to the introduction of Tilia that we need to send in indentification documents which will take 30 days maximum to process. So if something does not work out people who make income with SL will have a full month without being able to process credit. Thats is insane, sorry. Considering that also especially with foreign non english ID there might be a huge margin for error this is terrible news. Creators and business makers already went through the whole ID process for process credits and now have to do it again. 

It is highly advised to open up the whole identification process asap BEFORE you introduce tilia to the customer so people can take care of things in advance. This is bad business practice.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

10 hours ago, Winston Ackland said:

Are American SL residents going to be taxed on USD removed from SL?

Of course, it is income. I believe LL has already been sending out some kind of tax forms to US residents (I'm not one of them).

4 hours ago, Cry Hawker said:

Creators and business makers already went through the whole ID process for process credits and now have to do it again. 

If you have already verified your identity with LL, you don't need to do it again.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[kittensusie Landar]

I use PayPal to buy L$, but my (UK) debit card to pay my tiers, will that have to change on August 1st?

[Resi Pfeffer]

11 hours ago, Random Person said:

Question #2:  Will Tilia accept DNA samples as a form of identification?

As its related to SL, voice verification will do the job ^^

Question:
How will i receive the fine for not being logged in once in a year, if i never ever used a credit card? Will there be a negative balance on my LindenDollar account?

[Coffee Pancake]

What happens to USD balanced on accounts who do not sign in and agree to the new ToS ?

[salacia Gustafson]

Hi there.

Can you please provide links to the specific laws you are referring to?

Can you also explain the following:

1.  Specifically who are the people who will have access to this personal information?

2.  What happens to the information that requires it to be stored? 

• The purpose for information to be stored
• Does the US government access this information - when, how and why?
• Does the US government access information provided by non US residents?
• Does the US government access information provided by non US citizens?
• Do the governments of other countries access this personal information?

3.  My other questions are reflected in Uneven's post dated Wednesday 4 July at 8:56am.

Thanks.

[Laura Liberty]

#1. What is the rationale for charging a fee for USD sitting in an account untouched for over a year? 

#2. What is the fee that would be charged if that happened?

I find this part very troubling to the integrity of LL so I am hoping there is a logical answer.

[Freda Fredriksson]

So when I change L$ into USD and pay it out once I have to do it over and over again, at least every 12 months, otherwise I have to pay a monthly fine. This is how I understood your tous of Tilia.  If not please clarify and explain things in a way, that also not native english speakers can understand it.

I am getting a bit sick of all those changes every couple of weeks. I do SL for fun (even if I work hard there), but all these announcements I have to watch what is going on and how I am affected, those hours of reading and thinking is stress, not fun. And I am worried, this is chasing people out of SL.

 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

1 hour ago, Freda Fredriksson said:

So when I change L$ into USD and pay it out once I have to do it over and over again, at least every 12 months, otherwise I have to pay a monthly fine. This is how I understood your tous of Tilia.  If not please clarify and explain things in a way, that also not native english speakers can understand it.

I am getting a bit sick of all those changes every couple of weeks. I do SL for fun (even if I work hard there), but all these announcements I have to watch what is going on and how I am affected, those hours of reading and thinking is stress, not fun. And I am worried, this is chasing people out of SL.

 

Those of us that have been around 12+ years are staying put mostly,  people seem to be misunderstanding and thinking LL can keep also doing business with the same pracities they have since the early 2000's.  but with new laws and new regulations people must adapt because the lab has to adapt or they wont exist and SL then will not.    but I would never worry about these changes much.  LL know's what they are doing and I have quite a bit of faith in them.

[Ai Austin]

Does logging into the Second Life account web page (at https://secondlife.com/my/ ) count as an "activity" on the Tilia account?  Or must a check be made on the $US balance explicitly in some way (e.g. by clicking through to https://secondlife.com/my/account/ ) or going even deeper specifically to some Tilia web site?

Its one more thing to remember to do annually in any case, and altering the inactive period to a little MORE than one year would be helpful to premium account fee payers using their $US balance to pay annual fees to make this clear to future users anyway.

Edited July 5, 2019 by Ai Austin
typo

[Mollymews]

@Ai Austin good question

[Oshun Emor]

I just found out about this from a fb post. I haven´t gotten any email about the subject, so I´m very confused, even after reading this forum. I say paypal is mentioned quite a lot. Some of us use it to pay for premium and buying linden dollarts. Does this means we also have to verify our ID in the way is listed?

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by Oshun Emor