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Kitten Kaos

"Starter" Homes, more like Retirement Homes, amIright?

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On 5/31/2019 at 6:10 PM, Fritigern Gothly said:

Just an idea off the cuff, how about an "old farts party" on Bellisseria where everyone is supposed to come as an old person with walkers, canes, scooters, and of course, grey/white hair, etc. Poking fun at our age ūüôā

Hell yes!!!  

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1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are we allowed to have yard sales / garage sales in new SSP regions?

I noticed that the restriction on commercial activity isn’t in the covenant anymore, so perhaps there will be a way to do something like this in the upcoming surprises.  I think a flea market /garage sale would be a great idea!  

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Ooooh, jumble sales - that would be so cool!

On the other hand, if commercial activity is going to be allowed... well, I'm ambivalent about that, tbh.

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1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

I noticed that the restriction on commercial activity isn’t in the covenant anymore, so perhaps there will be a way to do something like this in the upcoming surprises.  I think a flea market /garage sale would be a great idea!  

perhaps instead of a jumble sale for the benefit of individual residents there could be like a little street fair, with cake stalls,  cups of tea, pony rides, etc with donations going to say Relay for Life

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1 minute ago, Mollymews said:

perhaps instead of a jumble sale for the benefit of individual residents there could be like a little street fair, with cake stalls,  cups of tea, pony rides, etc with donations going to say Relay for Life

I like that idea. I'm thinking it would be nice to have a small monthly thing, with donations to a different small charitable organisation each month. I would think there are many many small charities out there that anybody could support (animal rescue? a charity that helps children? a charity that helps people with various health issues, like arthritis or something?), surely?

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Starter community YES it is!  But not in the sense that we’re expected to leave... only in the sense that this community will start and nurture a reboot of our Second Life which isn’t all about making a quick profit and directed instead toward a thriving economy where demand drives supply, instead of the exasperation we suffered during the reverse!

I feel that the community in Bellisseria is a good mix of ages, both RL and SL ages!  The valuable things the experienced members of SL kindly share are eagerly accepted, questioned, debated and improved by the newer/younger members enthusiastically and has connected us all in the true spirit of community.  

Bellisseria feels like the very best small city a person could hope to live in!  Some will move here, live a while and decide to spread their wings and go out into the big wide world and hopefully flourish!  Some will move in and use what they learn here to improve other places and properties in SL and some will stay and thrive and enjoy sharing and learning from the experience of others who have stayed in SL waiting and hoping for a community like this for so long.

No matter how long people stay here, Bellisseria will be ‚ÄúHome‚Ä̬†to anyone who has come here,¬†even just to visit. ¬†A core community of¬†people who enjoy knowing their neighbours, have¬†fun together and¬†inspire¬†each other! ¬†Given these few community ‚Äėrules‚Äô our creativity has¬†exploded, designers, builders, scripters, entertainers¬†and creators have sprung into action supplying our demands enthusiastically, helping¬†each other remember and¬†trust our invaluable common sense and get along ...and we‚Äôre on the edge of our seats awaiting each surprise in store! ¬†I‚Äôm¬†so proud that WE are proposing¬†these rules through¬†our requests and discussions¬†for the benefit of everyone and LL is employing OUR suggestions and ideas along with theirs¬†in a brilliant team effort!

I LOVE this place and thank everyone working so hard for the enjoyment of us all!! ¬†Ancient Mole is excited to come to work everyday so¬†I can‚Äôt wait to find out all that‚Äôs ahead of us! ūü•≥. WHOoOoOo HOoooOoo!!

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3 minutes ago, Arquet said:

I like that idea. I'm thinking it would be nice to have a small monthly thing, with donations to a different small charitable organisation each month. I would think there are many many small charities out there that anybody could support (animal rescue? a charity that helps children? a charity that helps people with various health issues, like arthritis or something?), surely?

i really like the idea of a different charity each time. Maybe some of the various Bella community groups will give it some serious consideration. Is always quite a bit of work needed to set this things up properly but would be good i think as a community coming together thing

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1 hour ago, BJoyful said:

I noticed that the restriction on commercial activity isn’t in the covenant anymore

@Patch Linden - Please tell me the above is an accident, an oversight, possibly happening when some other modification was made to the covenant.

I don't mind LL creating commercial areas in the new continent, but I really don't like the idea that my next door neighbor's house can suddenly become a store.

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@LittleMe Jewell

i am glad you have raised this. My eyes nearly fell out of my head when I read this.  I never said anything myself as I don't have a home on Bella and not likely to get one either. But I was like woooah! what is that about

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

@Patch Linden - Please tell me the above is an accident, an oversight, possibly happening when some other modification was made to the covenant.

I don't mind LL creating commercial areas in the new continent, but I really don't like the idea that my next door neighbor's house can suddenly become a store.

I hope that will be the plan, that the themes of the neighbourhoods will be upheld, and in the meantime it is wonderful to enjoy the enthusiasm which has inspired residents to offer their homes as public gathering spots.  

Perhaps¬†this has proven the desire for some Premium members of SL¬†to be Bellisserians who wish to participate in the community not exclusively as private homeowners but as providers of faux shops and services? ¬†I‚Äôm confident that this is all fluid and all a sort of experiment we should try to be objective about until it proves to be an actual detriment or benefit to the enjoyment of the community? ¬†Our worst fears can do more harm than good sometimes. ūü•į

LL has proven to be right on top of things here and I trust that they won’t allow it to get out of control or become a detriment. 

Edited by BJoyful
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16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

@Patch Linden - Please tell me the above is an accident, an oversight, possibly happening when some other modification was made to the covenant.

I don't mind LL creating commercial areas in the new continent, but I really don't like the idea that my next door neighbor's house can suddenly become a store.

I have a vague memory of a prior discussion in this forum about commercial activity not being addressed in the in world About Land tab (covenant), but it is still forbidden in the official Knowledge Base article published by Jeremy Linden. I don't think this is a new change, but something they have yet to fix. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

Also, you agree that your Linden Home:

  • Is for residential use only. ¬†Business use of any kind is prohibited, including parcel rental, rental boxes, classified ads or other forms of advertising, and event listings.

 

  • ¬†

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

@Patch Linden - Please tell me the above is an accident, an oversight, possibly happening when some other modification was made to the covenant.

I don't mind LL creating commercial areas in the new continent, but I really don't like the idea that my next door neighbor's house can suddenly become a store.

 

Same here. I have some mixed feelings about this, tbh. I don't mind someone having that cute little coffee shop, and now being able to sell foodz and other adorable stuff. But full-blown stores, mainland style, not sure I'm liking that idea too much. There was a reason commercial activity was 'verboten' on Bellisseria, you know.

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42 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

I have a vague memory of a prior discussion in this forum about commercial activity not being addressed in the in world About Land tab (covenant), but it is still forbidden in the official Knowledge Base article published by Jeremy Linden. I don't think this is a new change, but something they have yet to fix. 

 

39 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Here we go (prior thread about this):

 

 

I do remember that thread now and yeah, it was never addressed by LL.  While the Knowledgebase might say that commercial is prohibited, the Covenant of the actual land is what "should" be the rule of law.    I do hope that LL addresses this soon.

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On 6/1/2019 at 3:24 PM, Zoya McDonnagh said:

While i am in the US and can't really respond about the time frame you asked about, I can describe some of the other points you asked about. There are 2 large groups: Bellisseria Citizens and Bellisseria Community. Both are pretty active chat wise any time  I log in. There are people from around the world in both groups.

Thanks for your reply. Boy alt joined both (cause he had group slots), had a few wanders and went to some of the house tour places. It's been really quiet every time I've gone, but I ran into Matty's pub and that gave me an idea for a way to feel part of the community even if I miss out on most of the activity. So boy alt is now premium (cause VAT is a stinker and Bitsy needs her tier for the shop).

New question - Is email the only way to find out when a new set is released? I am lousy at checking email any more.

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I brought up the part about commercial use not being addressed in the Bellisseria covenant the very first day the preview opened at the home and garden show. I even asked Patch about it standing there in the middle of the street. He really didn't comment other than to say .. hmmm .. or something similar. A few days later a clause specifically addressing the prohibition for commercial use was added. I don't see that clause anymore in the covenant. So there's been some movement in regard to this topic recently. I remember the issue being brought up in other threads specifically in relation to advertising and open houses. So, we see changes without any real official comments from anyone at the lab. I really would like some real clarification even if it's to say .. hey we aren't set in stone yet on this subject .. we'll let you know when we've decided the best course of action.

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I think it should be kept as residential as possible- but there's ways to be entrepreneurial that won't be spammy or break theme, many of which have been covered in this thread. Just gotta keep things low key and not intrusive

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1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I brought up the part about commercial use not being addressed in the Bellisseria covenant the very first day the preview opened at the home and garden show. I even asked Patch about it standing there in the middle of the street. He really didn't comment other than to say .. hmmm .. or something similar. A few days later a clause specifically addressing the prohibition for commercial use was added. I don't see that clause anymore in the covenant. So there's been some movement in regard to this topic recently. I remember the issue being brought up in other threads specifically in relation to advertising and open houses. So, we see changes without any real official comments from anyone at the lab. I really would like some real clarification even if it's to say .. hey we aren't set in stone yet on this subject .. we'll let you know when we've decided the best course of action.

Initially there was no clause about commercial use and I truly think it was accidentally overlooked since it appeared shortly after you mentioned it to Patch.  I **think** that it disappeared again when the Security stuff was added.  That implies that they have multiple copies of their covenant doc(totally not unusual in the business world) and the commercial use clause got added to one copy and then put out inworld.  Later the security stuff gets added to an older copy and that gets put inworld, replacing the version that mentions commercial use.  

The biggest issue with the Knowledgebase version is that it is obviously a mish-mash of stuff from the older homes and the new homes.  One comment even says "Your Linden Home must remain as it came on its 512m2 parcel".  Since the covenants are different for the old vs new Linden Homes, that article needs to have 2 sections that properly focus only on the old or new.  

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33 minutes ago, Kitten Kaos said:

I think it should be kept as residential as possible- but there's ways to be entrepreneurial that won't be spammy or break theme, many of which have been covered in this thread. Just gotta keep things low key and not intrusive

I recently bought a 7seas fishing kit and set up the server on my land. When someone mentioned that I should also set up the bait/rods/etc. vendor, I mentioned that it would count as commerce, which is prohibited in the covenant. But when I tried to find that part so I could quote it, it was nowhere to be found.
 

3 hours ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

[...] but it is still forbidden in the official Knowledge Base article published by Jeremy Linden.

Then again, Jeremy may not have gotten around to updating the knowledge base yet. 
Unless stated otherwise by LL, I think it would not be unreasonable to assume that the "live" covenant takes priority over the KB, because that's basically the sign posted on your door, or like the landlord's note shoved through your mailbox.

Now, let me make absolutely clear that I am NOT advocating stores on Bellisseria, but IMO it should be fine to rez a vendor if that is a rather important part of something which enhances your parcel (like the 7seas system for instance). I think that a limit of three 3rd party vendors, of three different merchants, selling a maximum total of 30 items (just plucking a number out of thin air for this last one) would be reasonable, provided that the location will not be used solely for these vendors. Vendors giving out free items would be exempt, provided that the location is not solely used for the distribution of freebies.
Or a set of rules somewhere along these lines to make sure that the use of vendors and such do not get out of hand. Surely LL can do better than me making up rules and guidelines about this. But the rules will have to be clear and prevent Linden Homes from being used as storefronts or as a freebie dungeon.

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8 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

Then again, Jeremy may not have gotten around to updating the knowledge base yet. 
Unless stated otherwise by LL, I think it would not be unreasonable to assume that the "live" covenant takes priority over the KB, because that's basically the sign posted on your door, or like the landlord's note shoved through your mailbox.

Considering that Patch said just a few days ago that yard sales are not yet allowed, personally, I'd proceed with caution on this. The fact that he said that certainly indicates *to me* that commercial activity is not allowed.

However, if you want to plop your vendors out there and see what happens, be sure to report back on it here. :)

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Considering that Patch said just a few days ago that yard sales are not yet allowed, personally, I'd proceed with caution on this. The fact that he said that certainly indicates *to me* that commercial activity is not allowed.

However, if you want to plop your vendors out there and see what happens, be sure to report back on it here. :)

I think the ever-changing covenant is getting to be VERY confusing.  Just a few days ago I pasted  the then current covenant from the land tab into a thread asking about commercial and that  non-commercial; the no commercial text was there.   I also noted in that thread that the covenant  had already changed a couple of times (let's make that now at LEAST 3).  I just went over and looked (reading a comment that it was no longer there a few posts back) and indeed I couldn't find it either (read through twice). 

 

It makes it VERY difficult to stick to the rules when the rules seem to constantly be changing. 

 

Note that the wiki (can't copy and paste as that is against the rules) STILL has the non-commercial text  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:New_Linden_Homes_2019 

 

The knowledge base (no rule about copy from there up top) says : 

  • Is for residential use only. ¬†Business use of any kind is prohibited, including parcel rental, rental boxes, classified ads or other forms of advertising, and event listings.

This is not the same as what is on the wiki (at this point in time).

 

I think it would be VERY GOOD if ALL this information would be the SAME.

Edited by Chic Aeon
adding info
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6 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Thanks for your reply. Boy alt joined both (cause he had group slots), had a few wanders and went to some of the house tour places. It's been really quiet every time I've gone, but I ran into Matty's pub and that gave me an idea for a way to feel part of the community even if I miss out on most of the activity. So boy alt is now premium (cause VAT is a stinker and Bitsy needs her tier for the shop).

New question - Is email the only way to find out when a new set is released? I am lousy at checking email any more.

You can follow Patch's post:

In a way, I would say that checking the latest posts in the LInden Homes section of the forum will be the best indicator as to when it looks like work is going on indicating that a release might be imminent.  For example, people were hanging out around the edges of the most recent houseboat release for at least a day if not more, before that release, and were talking about and posting pictures about it here in the forums.  That kind of activity would be a key sign to really keep vigilant with watching this section of the forums.   I wouldn't expect that there would be anything released before SL16B, but if there is a preview there, I would start watching more closely here afterwards. 

We could see when parcels and houseboats were being placed.  We could see that there were moles out there.  I would imagine that there will be similar sightings for the next release.  

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3 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I think the ever-changing covenant is getting to be VERY confusing.  Just a few days ago I pasted  the then current covenant from the land tab into a thread asking about commercial and that  non-commercial; the no commercial text was there.   I also noted in that thread that the covenant  had already changed a couple of times (let's make that now at LEAST 3).  I just went over and looked (reading a comment that it was no longer there a few posts back) and indeed I couldn't find it either (read through twice). 

 

It makes it VERY difficult to stick to the rules when the rules seem to constantly be changing. 

 

Note that the wiki (can't copy and paste as that is against the rules) STILL has the non-commercial text  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:New_Linden_Homes_2019 

 

The knowledge base (no rule about copy from there up top) says : 

  • Is for residential use only. ¬†Business use of any kind is prohibited, including parcel rental, rental boxes, classified ads or other forms of advertising, and event listings.

This is not the same as what is on the wiki (at this point in time).

 

I think it would be VERY GOOD if ALL this information would be the SAME.

Honestly, that wiki page is so out of date and so full of information that is no longer valid, I don't begin to trust it to apply to anything today.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Bitsy Buccaneer said:

Thanks for your reply. Boy alt joined both (cause he had group slots), had a few wanders and went to some of the house tour places. It's been really quiet every time I've gone, but I ran into Matty's pub and that gave me an idea for a way to feel part of the community even if I miss out on most of the activity. So boy alt is now premium (cause VAT is a stinker and Bitsy needs her tier for the shop).

New question - Is email the only way to find out when a new set is released? I am lousy at checking email any more.

Are you better at checking the forums? (I am here way more than I check my emails lol) there is a thread stickied to the top of this forum (Linden Homes) I think it is the third one down from the top. That Patch Linden does updates in. Not good at linking on my phone so hopefully you spot it or someone can link it.

Edited by Zoya McDonnagh
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My personal feeling is I hope that there are no commercial vendors, places or whatever allowed on Bellisseria at all.  This continent is advertised as Linden "Homes."  I feel it should be kept as such.  Now, if one wants to decorate their home as a pub, coffee house, game room, etc., inside and invite the public in that's fine, but the outside should be in keeping with the surrounding neighborhood and I have seen some outside addons in my travels around Bellisseria that push the envelope.  

It should be spelled out in the KB, the Wiki and most importantly the covenant.  I hope this gets taken care of and very soon. 

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