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Kitten Kaos

"Starter" Homes, more like Retirement Homes, amIright?

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I would dearly love to see a Bellisseria town square with real commercial ventures. With the rate of in-world stores closing and only selling on the MP I think having Linden Stores (Homes) would be a huge incentive to bring shops back in-world. I know I would gladly open another premium account to have a store in Bellisseria.

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9 hours ago, Cougar Sangria said:

My personal feeling is I hope that there are no commercial vendors, places or whatever allowed on Bellisseria at all.  This continent is advertised as Linden "Homes."  I feel it should be kept as such.  Now, if one wants to decorate their home as a pub, coffee house, game room, etc., inside and invite the public in that's fine, but the outside should be in keeping with the surrounding neighborhood and I have seen some outside addons in my travels around Bellisseria that push the envelope.  

It should be spelled out in the KB, the Wiki and most importantly the covenant.  I hope this gets taken care of and very soon. 

I fully agree!

Stores are for the Mainland and Private regions - Not for Linden Homes!

Now look what it has made me do... two exclamation marks in two sentences.... just resisted a third there :P

I'm getting my placard ready now.....

 

 

Ted.jpg

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35 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would dearly love to see a Bellisseria town square with real commercial ventures. With the rate of in-world stores closing and only selling on the MP I think having Linden Stores (Homes) would be a huge incentive to bring shops back in-world. I know I would gladly open another premium account to have a store in Bellisseria.

Maybe model after Luna Oaks Galleria, with controllable fountain.

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1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would dearly love to see a Bellisseria town square with real commercial ventures. With the rate of in-world stores closing and only selling on the MP I think having Linden Stores (Homes) would be a huge incentive to bring shops back in-world. I know I would gladly open another premium account to have a store in Bellisseria.

I'm actually against the idea for real commercial spaces in Bellisseria, but I DO like the idea of a town square set up. As for what that would entail, who knows. As much as I have previously advocated for Linden owned and decorated mock-businesses, now I'm not so sure. To have that might at least give the impression of a town as opposed to the gated community we currently have (not that there's anything wrong with it at all), as well as give those who want to meet OOC a place to go beyond parks and beaches, and partially cater to the RPers of the new continent. But then I have to wonder; what happens when the novelty wears off? Not only that, where does it end?

People asked for an airport (air strip) and got it. People asked for rez zones and got them. People asked for more houseboats and got them (though yes, that was always going to happen, just maybe not so quickly ahead of original schedule). All this is a win for many and yes it brings more to the land than just some nice houses and well landscaped streets and beaches. But I really fear that adding ANY commercial aspect to Bellisseria is a slippery slope that leads us straight back to Mainland 2.0.

LL and the Moles still have a lot of work left to do to complete Belliesseria, as well as work on the new models, work out bugs, land scape, field all the questions and JIRAs and all the rest, but then should this retail aspect be introduced they have to ensure that it too runs smoothly without causing issues for residents either on that particular region, or near to it. The more "we" give them to do, the more that finish line keeps being pushed back, and the irritation and impatience for all those still left waiting for a home gets louder. 

I do understand that the drawcard of tourists and residents alike is right now untapped potential, especially in the wake of fee increases that are putting a strain on merchants. I get it because I'm a merchant too, even if small fry. But I'm with @Cougar Sangria and @Walpurgisnacht etc. Keep Bellisseria as a place where we escape everything else (our retirement homes), and use the mainland for... well, everything else.

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3 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I would dearly love to see a Bellisseria town square with real commercial ventures. With the rate of in-world stores closing and only selling on the MP I think having Linden Stores (Homes) would be a huge incentive to bring shops back in-world. I know I would gladly open another premium account to have a store in Bellisseria.

I was thinking the same thing - about a Town Square - with shops......or it could be an island nearby - with a nice bridge to drive over.....with shops, clubs...etc.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, RacyAcey said:

I was thinking the same thing - about a Town Square - with shops......or it could be an island nearby - with a nice bridge to drive over.....with shops, clubs...etc.

This could be a workable compromise that adds value & interest: a bridge to a small sea side "tourist beach" with small shops  with signs out front, no bling, no joiner spam, make it look strictly like one of those day trip spots that sells taffy and beach paintings, only much better because it will sell Blush's stuff  lol  Heck maybe make the shops pretty quaint store fronts with placards for the items... and a tp to a rezzer to see the actual items  (just thinking aloud about keeping things friendly)I don't think this has to be a slippery slope, it could be strictly enforced covenant to keep theme.

Edited by Kitten Kaos
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I do not think that there should be actual commercial activity in Bellisseria.  The biggest issue I see with that is if creators start getting "free" (with premium) store locations in or connected to Bellisseria, then every premium level creator would think they should be able to have a store there.  If there was a limited number allowed, I think that would turn into a headache for LL to administer and there would always be creators who felt the method was unfair. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I do not think that there should be actual commercial activity in Bellisseria.  The biggest issue I see with that is if creators start getting "free" (with premium) store locations in or connected to Bellisseria, then every premium level creator would think they should be able to have a store there.  If there was a limited number allowed, I think that would turn into a headache for LL to administer and there would always be creators who felt the method was unfair. 

That's a good point, I don't know how we'd keep it a small space without making a lot of frustration... and it does add to Linden workload to enforce this plus a home covenant, so   maybe it's just not a good work to value balance. Maybe they'll eventually make a themed shopping continent.

Edited by Kitten Kaos
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2 hours ago, RaeLeeH said:

People asked for an airport (air strip) and got it. People asked for rez zones and got them. People asked for more houseboats and got them (though yes, that was always going to happen, just maybe not so quickly ahead of original schedule). All this is a win for many and yes it brings more to the land than just some nice houses and well landscaped streets and beaches. But I really fear that adding ANY commercial aspect to Bellisseria is a slippery slope that leads us straight back to Mainland 2.0.

 

I was thinking this morning...I'd love to have a railway line (with working trains!) to get round Bellisseria. That would have been really cool.

(Yes, yes, I know, not a realistic option, and would have been a headache to implement, but hey, one can dream...)

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Just now, moirakathleen said:

I do not think that there should be actual commercial activity in Bellisseria.  The biggest issue I see with that is if creators start getting "free" (with premium) store locations in or connected to Bellisseria, then every premium level creator would think they should be able to have a store there.  If there was a limited number allowed, I think that would turn into a headache for LL to administer and there would always be creators who felt the method was unfair. 

That is similar to what I was about to write. While I like the idea of shops in theme, the reality of that is how would one go about enforcing that and making it fair? 

I've lived in a few tourist towns. From rich gated communities that look very similar to Bellisseria, and their commercial districts complete with high end tasteful decor that caters to that gated community of summer homes, to tourist traps that have cheap and tacky junk you wouldn't see at a yard sale. 

How would we separate them fairly? Would it be original creations only to keep the thousands of gacha, breedables, and pop up/reseller junk out of there? Would they only be able to sell strictly in theme items? Would they have to be residents of Bellisseria to be there? And if that were the case, how would the land work. Rentals so it doesn't go over the 1024? Or would the stores be 1024 as well and you have a choice of a home or business? Too many variables that would possibly cause anger from anyone just wanting to say they have a store and might feel slighted. 

While I like idea of a strictly in theme shopping district, I can already see the "where is MY store, I'm premium too!" threads outnumbering the house threads.

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@Zoya McDonnagh   Valid points, all & LL is busy enough just trying to supply homes per demand, so.... best just focus on what's already working well & replicate that elsewhere

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I could be wrong, but I don't think that Bellisseria was meant to be an all-encompassing location, as in everything you ever need will be provided and you never need to leave the continent. 

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I have suggested in another thread that I'd like to see a merchant level premium account with benefits geared toward merchants. I personally think that if there were parcels that could only use the mole created buildings and that all the buildings were of equal value/size and kept within the theme that it could be a very nice addition to the Bellisseria community. I don't think these shops should be intermingled with the residential areas though. I do however, think that it's a great idea to have teleports to rezzers in the sky to see demos and the like and save the actual shop area for tasteful displays of merchandise vendors. You might think .. well what you might consider tasteful another may not but we have that very situation with residences as well. As long as we act like grownups and respect our neighbors I think we'd be fine. 

Anyway, my two cents worth. I like the idea if handled well. 

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As much as I want to squeal with delight at the idea of a small old town square with a park in the center, or a boardwalk lined with shops and an event venue out over the water... I don't think allowing real creator-owned stores in bellisseria would realistically work, scale-wise. There are just too many creators who would want to take part. In accommodating everyone, we'd create a whole second bellisseria-sized continent that's wholly commercial with low traffic and low visibility. I could really go for a large event venue with fake shop fronts, though! 50's ice cream parlor, anyone?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Teager said:

As much as I want to squeal with delight at the idea of a small old town square with a park in the center, or a boardwalk lined with shops and an event venue out over the water... I don't think allowing real creator-owned stores in bellisseria would realistically work, scale-wise. There are just too many creators who would want to take part. In accommodating everyone, we'd create a whole second bellisseria-sized continent that's wholly commercial with low traffic and low visibility. I could really go for a large event venue with fake shop fronts, though! 50's ice cream parlor, anyone?

Right! Something that captures the look and feel of small squares and plazas, with cafe tables and even indoor booths/tables. Even with food and drink items on the tables. 

But no actual commerce or items for sale. Just different places to sit and roleplay while chatting. Coffee shop with indoor and outdoor tables. A bar or two, with drinks and barstools. A cafe or two. Theme restaurants (Chinese, Italian, etc.)

But all created as set pieces to congregate and interact. Imagine something like this with a small bandstand or gazebo in the center where  a DJ or streaming acoustic singer/songwriter, or beat poet (lol) or standup comedian could set up for impromptu (and FREE—no tip jars!) “live entertainment” for the local diners and drinkers!

Edited by Fushichou Mfume
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Bay City has LL-owned places like this. The amusement park, Cafe Deco and the bowling alleys come to mind, though there may be others that I'm not remembering at the moment. Wouldn't a bowling alley be fun in Bellisseria? :)

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Bowling alley, skate pond around a big evergreen in  Dec., movie theater where we could watch MST3000 or Rocky Horror together,  etc. etc...  I like where this is going!

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7 minutes ago, Kitten Kaos said:

Bowling alley, skate pond around a big evergreen in  Dec., movie theater where we could watch MST3000 or Rocky Horror together,  etc. etc...  I like where this is going!

Oh that reminds me, Bay City has a LL movie theater and fairgrounds (yes, with winter skating) as well. Really, there are a lot of fun things that they have done in Bay City that they could draw upon to use in Bellisseria as well. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, yellowowl said:

That sounds wonderful. I hope it happen soon.

While it MIGHT happen, it definitely won't happen SOON™.  LL's number one focus right now, beside fixing any problems, is to get more homes ready to release. They will have put out 30-40k of homes when all is done and yet, as of now, there are a bit over 3000.  So lots, lots more work to do just to get the homes out.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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True. I think they are making long term plans for more community areas that facilitate interactions, tho, from what they've said and I bet we hear more about those plans at the Birthday Celebration.

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On 6/2/2019 at 11:44 AM, Blush Bravin said:

I brought up the part about commercial use not being addressed in the Bellisseria covenant the very first day the preview opened at the home and garden show. I even asked Patch about it standing there in the middle of the street. He really didn't comment other than to say .. hmmm .. or something similar. A few days later a clause specifically addressing the prohibition for commercial use was added. I don't see that clause anymore in the covenant. So there's been some movement in regard to this topic recently. I remember the issue being brought up in other threads specifically in relation to advertising and open houses. So, we see changes without any real official comments from anyone at the lab. I really would like some real clarification even if it's to say .. hey we aren't set in stone yet on this subject .. we'll let you know when we've decided the best course of action.

 

On 6/2/2019 at 1:31 PM, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Considering that Patch said just a few days ago that yard sales are not yet allowed, personally, I'd proceed with caution on this. The fact that he said that certainly indicates *to me* that commercial activity is not allowed.

However, if you want to plop your vendors out there and see what happens, be sure to report back on it here. :)

 

On 6/2/2019 at 1:54 PM, Chic Aeon said:

I think the ever-changing covenant is getting to be VERY confusing.  Just a few days ago I pasted  the then current covenant from the land tab into a thread asking about commercial and that  non-commercial; the no commercial text was there.   I also noted in that thread that the covenant  had already changed a couple of times (let's make that now at LEAST 3).  I just went over and looked (reading a comment that it was no longer there a few posts back) and indeed I couldn't find it either (read through twice). 

 

It makes it VERY difficult to stick to the rules when the rules seem to constantly be changing. 

 

Note that the wiki (can't copy and paste as that is against the rules) STILL has the non-commercial text  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:New_Linden_Homes_2019 

 

The knowledge base (no rule about copy from there up top) says : 

  • Is for residential use only.  Business use of any kind is prohibited, including parcel rental, rental boxes, classified ads or other forms of advertising, and event listings.

This is not the same as what is on the wiki (at this point in time).

 

I think it would be VERY GOOD if ALL this information would be the SAME.

 

 

Patch has now addressed this:  

 

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Remember when I posted the following?

 
 
 
On 6/2/2019 at 12:19 PM, Fritigern Gothly said:

I recently bought a 7seas fishing kit and set up the server on my land. When someone mentioned that I should also set up the bait/rods/etc. vendor, I mentioned that it would count as commerce, which is prohibited in the covenant. But when I tried to find that part so I could quote it, it was nowhere to be found.

 

Patch posted the following in response to this and other posts and comments:

 

So... No vendors but as I read it, I could/should set up a LM giver that directs people to the 7seas store if they want to buy rods or bait. Which I am perfectly fine with. It's good to have some more clarity 🙂

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Fritigern Gothly said:

 

 

 So... No vendors but as I read it, I could/should set up a LM giver that directs people to the 7seas store if they want to buy rods or bait. Which I am perfectly fine with. It's good to have some more clarity 🙂

The way I read the post that would be forbidden. You can't direct people away from Bellisseria to make purchases. What he did say is that a merchant who has a Linden Home can give out LMs to the model home in Bellisseria at their store.

Edited by Blush Bravin
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I'm very intrigued by the "yard sale" comment in his post. Can't wait to see what that entails.

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