A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[Victorianna Writer]

5 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Per a post from Grumpity earlier, you don't have to be annual, but that would give you the best locked in savings.  

In any case, basically on the day you get ready to pre-pay, check your dashboard for your premium renewal date.  Whatever that day is, add a month/quarter/year to it, depending on what type of prepay you want to do.  Also remember that the quarterly option is only available if you are already on the quarterly plan. 

I have an alt that does not come up for renewal until April 2020.  When I do the prepay on June 3rd, it will be for a year and that will then extend the alt's renewal out to April 2021.

Whereas this account won't score quite as well since my renewal is June 28th.  So on when I do the renewal on June 3rd, it simply shifts the Jun 28 2019 renewal date to Jun 28 2020.

So, if I kept my account at quarterly as it was all I would have to do is add the yearly I want? I was planning on putting it on yearly anyway. I originally had my acct on yearly then some stuff happened in rl a while back that I set it up to quarterly and been meaning to put it back to yearly which I can now. So, now, my acct is up for renewal on June 2, I set it to yearly and was thinking of doing a pre-pay as well for another year to lock in this rate before it changes so that I will be good till 2021. That makes sense, right? lol it's late hehe.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Victorianna Writer said:

So, if I kept my account at quarterly as it was all I would have to do is add the yearly I want? I was planning on putting it on yearly anyway. I originally had my acct on yearly then some stuff happened in rl a while back that I set it up to quarterly and been meaning to put it back to yearly which I can now. So, now, my acct is up for renewal on June 2, I set it to yearly and was thinking of doing a pre-pay as well for another year to lock in this rate before it changes so that I will be good till 2021. That makes sense, right? lol it's late hehe.

Yeah, if you have already set it to change to yearly, then on June 2nd, Sunday, it will charge you $72 and you new date will be June 2, 2020.  Then anytime between June 3 & 24, you go back to the dashboard and select the prepay option. You'll then pay another $72 at that time and the renewal date will shift out to June 2, 2021.

Or you could let the June 2 only do a quarterly renewal and then sometime from June 3-24 you do a prepay of either another quarter or an entire year.   ETA: Since you have already changed it to go to annual, you might not be able to drop it back to quarterly --- maybe, maybe not.  Since it hasn't actually billed yet, I'm not sure on how they would handle that.

Edited June 1, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[Victorianna Writer]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, if you have already set it to change to yearly, then on June 2nd, Sunday, it will charge you $72 and you new date will be June 2, 2020.  Then anytime between June 3 & 24, you go back to the dashboard and select the prepay option. You'll then pay another $72 at that time and the renewal date will shift out to June 2, 2021.

Or you could let the June 2 only do a quarterly renewal and then sometime from June 3-24 you do a prepay of either another quarter or an entire year.

I'm thinking setting it at a year and then pre-pay another year may be a better savings that way I don't have to worry about paying 99 next year since I'll be good till 2021.

[Victorianna Writer]

Soooo many changes!!! AHHHH!!!  🤣🤣🤣 lol 

It's all good. Only thing that would be nice is if maybe for those at least maybe bring up the stipend amount based on what Premium level people are on. That would be a nice perk.  

[Coffee Pancake]

I'm wondering what happens when "Super Premium" or whatever it's going to be called come out, are we about to pay to keep our membership rates static and then be faced with an upgrade option in a couple of months?

How will that all work out in the wash, are we just setting ourselves up for a dramatic step up in rates 18 months down the line.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 5/30/2019 at 4:50 AM, Milena Coy said:

Payment isn’t the problem of SL for getting (keeping!) new users. The reason they don’t return is that SL is too complicate for new users. 1000 settings of the viewer. LL viewer or Firestorm? Default avatar? Or wearing (!) a mesh body and a separated mesh head? Oh, then the default avatar is hidden. So also your skin is hidden. Hopefully you find the same skin applier for body and head or you manage how to edit the tone. Understanding alpha layers. Even different when using the mesh body HUD. Oh forgot: Hands and feet are separate mesh parts too. So buy correct shoes or they won’t match. Yes, there are different mesh generations - rigged, unrigged. No, forget sculpties, they are outdated like so many things here. Different textures for mesh. No, you can’t create mesh with the viewer tools. Yes, you can create system clothes with the viewer. But don’t do it, yes smartass, it’s outdated. Wearing system clothes, mesh clothes or use an applier HUD for textures? Wear or add objects or need applier? Different mesh systems for hair (don’t use system hair, silly. Just wear a base. Well, that’s a bald of ... ok, sorry, of the system hair.) and especially for apparel. Found a cheap mesh body? Cool! Oh, didn’t find clothes for it? Haha, yes. Omega (Kit? Applier? Relay HUD? Huh?) may work. But you need to buy the right one. “Soon” (tm) we will have Bakes on Mesh, again changing a lot. Open a box? Well, just click it. Oh, or you need to drag (“rezz”, wut?) it to the ground. Not allowed? You need permission for this. Why? Where? How? Why I am shaking my arms like a bird while I am standing? Haha, silly noob AO. Oh, what’s an AO? - And all this is only the start. Still not learned about inventory, outfits and other UI parts, object permissions, maturity ratings, land allowance (buy and/or monthly fee, mainland and private is different), complicated group functions (deed?), gestures, scripts, building, music/media, offline restrictions and much more. How can I find people with the same interests? The search mainly leads me to “sex”-places or “clubs”, no matter what I am looking for, because keyword-spamming rules. And btw: Inworld help you get at user driven support regions or in user groups (Firestorm for example), not driven my LL. So maybe somewhere there the problem is “hidden”, why most of new users never return or give up soon? Because SL grew in steps as it did and never was simplified, the whole concept of SL is grumpy now. Rebuild it, simplify it, courageously kick old content and structures.

Exactly.

I have been in SL over 12 years, and I still struggle with the complexity, particularly the complexity of newly-introduced features, and I am not some computer-illiterate technophobe; I am the person that my relatives and social friends seek out to solve their problems with their computers and devices. Many of the developments are wonderful. Fitmesh cloths are what I dreamed of for years. Mesh bodies are a definite improvement. Outfits make my life so much better. The stability of the servers has improved by an enormous amount. Etc.

I have often thought that, if I first tried SL today, I might well have left for good after a few days because I would have despaired of ever understanding it well enough to have fun.

LL really needs to give attention to how they can make the new user experience better by making it less challenging.

Here are a few ideas:

Since mesh avatars are the state of the art, stop offering classic avatars to new residents. That would simplify things for them.

We really need multiple levels of complexity of the viewer. LL tried that a few years ago. They mistakenly made the basic level so limited that nobody wanted to use it. They need multiple levels, but they need to think more carefully about what and how many levels they need and what abilities the levels need. Focus groups would be useful for figuring this out, and it would be dirt cheap to use them inside SL. Come to think of it, within-SL focus groups could help SL a lot with decision-making regarding how they could use available resources in ways that residents most value.

I had not thought of this until read the quoted post: Could LL promulgate standards for avatars analogous to the standards in the computer industry? For example, if I buy a mesh body, mesh head, mesh hands and feet (if they didn't come with the body). hair, clothing, etc. that are "Linden Lab Standard 2019-23A-compatible, they will all work well together. It's a challenge for me to make it all work together. It must be a nightmare for a new resident. Or, even better, can LL dictate standards for creators? We don't want to limit creativity, so they should be free to create whatever they want, but shouldn't there be a standard they can meet and advertise meeting?

[Victorianna Writer]

1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

I'm wondering what happens when "Super Premium" or whatever it's going to be called come out, are we about to pay to keep our membership rates static and then be faced with an upgrade option in a couple of months?

How will that all work out in the wash, are we just setting ourselves up for a dramatic step up in rates 18 months down the line.

IDK, my thought is we might get some kick ass perks who knows. Guess we all just wait and see what happens. And hope we're not getting set up for something dramatic. I don't think LL would set us up on something if they didn't suggest us members to do this. I'm sure they probably have more plans ahead. All they can do is move forward, not backwards. 

[Dorientje Woller]

My unsalted opinion: The money that went to create and develop a dead horse from start, called Sansar (aka Blue Mars with another name stamped on it) should have been invested in SL self to improve the performance, to modernize the backbone of the concept (Who does still use pure OpenGL while Vulkan is available). So many money wasted for a gimmick while there is still so much to accomplish in Second Life.

[Victorianna Writer]

6 minutes ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

Exactly.

I have been in SL over 12 years, and I still struggle with the complexity, particularly the complexity of newly-introduced features, and I am not some computer-illiterate technophobe; I am the person that my relatives and social friends seek out to solve their problems with their computers and devices. Many of the developments are wonderful. Fitmesh cloths are what I dreamed of for years. Mesh bodies are a definite improvement. Outfits make my life so much better. The stability of the servers has improved by an enormous amount. Etc.

I have often thought that, if I first tried SL today, I might well have left for good after a few days because I would have despaired of ever understanding it well enough to have fun.

LL really needs to give attention to how they can make the new user experience better by making it less challenging.

Here are a few ideas:

Since mesh avatars are the state of the art, stop offering classic avatars to new residents. That would simplify things for them.

We really need multiple levels of complexity of the viewer. LL tried that a few years ago. They mistakenly made the basic level so limited that nobody wanted to use it. They need multiple levels, but they need to think more carefully about what and how many levels they need and what abilities the levels need. Focus groups would be useful for figuring this out, and it would be dirt cheap to use them inside SL. Come to think of it, within-SL focus groups could help SL a lot with decision-making regarding how they could use available resources in ways that residents most value.

I had not thought of this until read the quoted post: Could LL promulgate standards for avatars analogous to the standards in the computer industry? For example, if I buy a mesh body, mesh head, mesh hands and feet (if they didn't come with the body). hair, clothing, etc. that are "Linden Lab Standard 2019-23A-compatible, they will all work well together. It's a challenge for me to make it all work together. It must be a nightmare for a new resident. Or, even better, can LL dictate standards for creators? We don't want to limit creativity, so they should be free to create whatever they want, but shouldn't there be a standard they can meet and advertise meeting?

I know that if you look under the Avatar tab there is a tick in there for avatars and there's mesh avatars that a newbie is able to choose from. I checked them out for one of my alts and they really don't look too bad and they are mesh...fitmesh ofc but it's mesh..it's a good start from there and gives them time to learn all about mesh, if they are willing to. But, yes, SL is more complicated now to learn than it was 12 years ago when I joined too. 

[Blush Bravin]

I've been somewhat vocal about my views in regards to groups and how they really do not function well with the way people use them in SL now. I have mixed feelings about the Lab's decision to keep the status quo on groups with the slight increase still going forward for premium. I still believe it's just putting a bandaid on a sore that really needs lancing and a through cleaning. I hope they will take some of the proceeds from the increase to premium and use it to fix groups because they really are broken.  

I also believe that we need to learn to budget our resources and groups are a costly resource. I hope people will reconsider how they use groups, both those running the groups and those who are members of groups. This constant turn over in juggling groups just to get the latest group gift is non productive. If people are going to join and then two days later, if not 10 minutes later, drop the group so they can join another group to get the latest freebie then the purpose of the group really isn't functioning anyway. So why have a group if that's the outcome? It's wasting resources. I really hope LL will consider a subo type function for situations like this. A subo is perfect for sending notices about group gifts and there is no need to juggle groups to stay informed.

In the end, I understand why the Lab decided to hold off reducing group slots for basic accounts. I know it rubbed people the wrong way, and I understand their viewpoint specially with the increase to group slots for premiums. So cheers to Linden Lab for showing how much they really do value all of the residents.

[Evangeline Arcadia]

Maybe there should be more info somewhere (easy to see) that explains to people before creating groups about the resource impact, how to delete non-active members etc. It's possible that people create groups without knowing all this stuff (I've been in SL for years, don't create groups, but didn't realise the impact of groups on SL until the recent thread). Maybe a pop up when a group is created that links to the info or something?

Edited June 1, 2019 by Evangeline Arcadia

[Victorianna Writer]

3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I've been somewhat vocal about my views in regards to groups and how they really do not function well with the way people use them in SL now. I have mixed feelings about the Lab's decision to keep the status quo on groups with the slight increase still going forward for premium. I still believe it's just putting a bandaid on a sore that really needs lancing and a through cleaning. I hope they will take some of the proceeds from the increase to premium and use it to fix groups because they really are broken.  

I also believe that we need to learn to budget our resources and groups are a costly resource. I hope people will reconsider how they use groups, both those running the groups and those who are members of groups. This constant turn over in juggling groups just to get the latest group gift is non productive. If people are going to join and then two days later, if not 10 minutes later, drop the group so they can join another group to get the latest freebie then the purpose of the group really isn't functioning anyway. So why have a group if that's the outcome? It's wasting resources. I really hope LL will consider a subo type function for situations like this. A subo is perfect for sending notices about group gifts and there is no need to juggle groups to stay informed.

In the end, I understand why the Lab decided to hold off reducing group slots for basic accounts. I know it rubbed people the wrong way, and I understand their viewpoint specially with the increase to group slots for premiums. So cheers to Linden Lab for showing how much they really do value all of the residents.

To me, having an amount of groups isn't an issue. I just think that there's just sooooo many groups in SL it's become so overrated. Especially those ran by bots that are continuous of the same ads over n over rather than idk owners being personal to their customers or something. Either way, the most out there is that there's just so many repeated advertisement groups by the same bots that send the same messages non stop.

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Victorianna Writer said:

IDK, my thought is we might get some kick ass perks who knows. Guess we all just wait and see what happens. And hope we're not getting set up for something dramatic. I don't think LL would set us up on something if they didn't suggest us members to do this. I'm sure they probably have more plans ahead. All they can do is move forward, not backwards. 

Updating the premium offering peace-meal over the course of months is exactly what they are doing. It's impossible to make an informed decision, just do as we're directed and hand over more money because it seems like the better deal on the day.

Going to be more than just pitchforks if when announced to great fanfare, "Mega Premium" gives you the same end result as what you just bought for 75% of the money you just spent.

1 minute ago, Dorientje Woller said:

My unsalted opinion: The money that went to create and develop a dead horse from start, called Sansar (aka Blue Mars with another name stamped on it) should have been invested in SL self to improve the performance, to modernize the backbone of the concept (Who does still use pure OpenGL while Vulkan is available). So many money wasted for a gimmick while there is still so much to accomplish in Second Life.

Yeah. Sansar was the original corporation friendly investor bait junk that companies have been chasing over and over. Sansar has some really cool tech, that we paid for .. and we will never see as LL do the same as Blue Mars and HiFi - spend years coasting on a hyped up fever dream that's obviously dead right from the start. SL is like some poison pill filled with weirdos, our money is about all that's fine.

But it really is worse than that.

Being involved with SL is seen as something to be ashamed of. Burning money and running a company into the floor is entirely normal and business as usual.

[Victorianna Writer]

8 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Updating the premium offering peace-meal over the course of months is exactly what they are doing. It's impossible to make an informed decision, just do as we're directed and hand over more money because it seems like the better deal on the day.

Going to be more than just pitchforks if when announced to great fanfare, "Mega Premium" gives you the same end result as what you just bought for 75% of the money you just spent.

Yeah. Sansar was the original corporation friendly investor bait junk that companies have been chasing over and over. Sansar has some really cool tech, that we paid for .. and we will never see as LL do the same as Blue Mars and HiFi - spend years coasting on a hyped up fever dream that's obviously dead right from the start. SL is like some poison pill filled with weirdos, our money is about all that's fine.

But it really is worse than that.

Being involved with SL is seen as something to be ashamed of. Burning money and running a company into the floor is entirely normal and business as usual.

Ummm..I'm a dork, I didn't know about SanSar till tonight and I just looked it up and seen that it's made by LL and surprised that their graphics is better than SL....There's something wrong with this picture.....I have it up atm on my steam.

[Victorianna Writer]

Sansar looks exactly like SL just better graphics and clarity.....sure makes you think!

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Here's an idea, maybe allow to add up to 3 or 5 years during the "June Special" to push keeping the old rate longer. That would also give LL some extra revenue infusion from those taking advantage of it.

[Leti Melody]

Thank you for listening to feedback and leaving the number of basic groups as they are. Much appreciated. 

I haven't gone through every page here so I don't know if this has been answered or not, but... My question now is, why wasn't this announcement about the price changes sent via email to all SL users? These are very important changes, and not everyone is on the forum and or reads the official blog. 

I mean, I got the email from Sansar about their recent "No more  transaction fees". Just curious to know why Linden Lab hasn't done the same for Second Life...? 

[Patch Linden]

On 5/30/2019 at 10:28 AM, Saturday Melody said:

Maybe people who haven't subscribed would be more enthusiastic if the result of a missed payment were not a frozen account. I simply cannot take the risk that something will go wrong with my payment and I will be locked out of the commitments I have inworld, that's an OP negative for me. Busted back to freebie account? Sure, I can work with that. Frozen out? Nope.

 

@Saturday Melody I'm not sure where this is coming from, as there is no risk here as you describe.  We don't freeze or lock you out of your account due to a missed payment immediately.  In fact, you have 30 days to rectify the situation, which can include downgrading your account back to basic and/or getting help from support.  As long as you do within that time frame, and even beyond it, we will still work with anyone to give them their account back.

[Cackle Amore]

So, with the group limit thing being out of the question now, I do still wonder if there's a way to help ease the system if it's as taxing as they claim.

I still like my idea of letting groups have a optional auto boot system they can configure ranging from having it autokick after 1 year since last log on all the way up to 10 years since last log on.

And perhaps could have it be toggled on automatically maybe at like 5 years for any new groups made

Edited June 1, 2019 by Digit Gears

[Micaela Amore]

The easiest thing to do would be to just turn off the things in groups that are a strain on the system unless the group creator pays a weekly fee for it.
Most of the groups don't need to see who is online all the time or have live chat. A small fee of just 30 lindens a week, same fee if you want to be in search with your place, will have a huge overall effect I think. All I want for my groups is them showing up in peoples profiles, send out notices or let people rez stuff on my land.  

[Cackle Amore]

2 hours ago, Victorianna Writer said:

Sansar looks exactly like SL just better graphics and clarity.....sure makes you think!

Well, SL is a rather old engine where the surrounding landscape can be altered at any moment. Sansar is a new engine, and the worlds on it are made and  edited in isolation, and then baked into the public version, with the exception of any animated or physical props, the surrounding environment won't suddenly be changing at any moment, it's all static. All the lighting effects and such are baked into that specific form.

Quote

[KingArwin]

The easiest thing to do would be to just turn off the things in groups that are a strain on the system unless the group creator pays a weekly fee for it.
Most of the groups don't need to see who is online all the time or have live chat. A small fee of just 30 lindens a week, same fee if you want to be in search with your place, will have a huge overall effect I think. All I want for my groups is them showing up in peoples profiles, send out notices or let people rez stuff on my land.  

Personally, the first thing I'd put on the chopping block of being disabled by default is that land group fee thing, if there's anything in groups that 90% don't use, it's that.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Digit Gears

[Crim Mip]

2 hours ago, Blush Bravin said:

I've been somewhat vocal about my views in regards to groups and how they really do not function well with the way people use them in SL now. I have mixed feelings about the Lab's decision to keep the status quo on groups with the slight increase still going forward for premium. I still believe it's just putting a bandaid on a sore that really needs lancing and a through cleaning. I hope they will take some of the proceeds from the increase to premium and use it to fix groups because they really are broken.  

I also believe that we need to learn to budget our resources and groups are a costly resource. I hope people will reconsider how they use groups, both those running the groups and those who are members of groups. This constant turn over in juggling groups just to get the latest group gift is non productive. If people are going to join and then two days later, if not 10 minutes later, drop the group so they can join another group to get the latest freebie then the purpose of the group really isn't functioning anyway. So why have a group if that's the outcome? It's wasting resources. I really hope LL will consider a subo type function for situations like this. A subo is perfect for sending notices about group gifts and there is no need to juggle groups to stay informed.

In the end, I understand why the Lab decided to hold off reducing group slots for basic accounts. I know it rubbed people the wrong way, and I understand their viewpoint specially with the increase to group slots for premiums. So cheers to Linden Lab for showing how much they really do value all of the residents.

They did indicate they were going to look into improvements in the coding for groups. It's one of the oldest sections of server code left and it's aparently going to be a bear to fix because it's got hooks into a lot of stuff. Every tume it's been brought up, it's always been "We have other projects in the queue and groups work to at least some degree. My take is finish up current projects that are reasonably far along and then devote however many devs and hours as it takes to fix it once and for all. If it delays some new features that's not the end of the world. It would give TPV's a chance to catch up and for people to learn and use some of the features that have been added (and find any serious bugs in those). 

[Fox Wijaya]

2 hours ago, Victorianna Writer said:

Sansar looks exactly like SL just better graphics and clarity.....sure makes you think!

untill you go compare what you can do in SL and in Sansar ... for a normal non creating user you'll run to SL within 15 minutes and never go back to that "better graphics commercial failure project
 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Fox Wijaya

[Crim Mip]

2 hours ago, Victorianna Writer said:

Sansar looks exactly like SL just better graphics and clarity.....sure makes you think!

Yeah, it makes me think it will need a seriously high end computer to run it and the lack of inworld object creation pretty much kills any enthusiasm I have for it. At that point, you might as well be creating Unity games. Phillip Rosedale recently all but pulled the plug on High Fidelity which was essentially his version of Sansar. As with Sansar, he was banking on VR tech advancing at a much faster rate than it has and becoming far more mainstream. He admitted he'd miscalculated and maybe in 7-10 years it might be time to try again. Until then, go watch Ready Player One and dream.

[Branduff Bisnovat]

Sorry ignore this.

Edited June 1, 2019 by Branduff Bisnovat
nope