A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

[ananoelle]

57 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

I'm talking about the ability to own land on the mainland. There would be no premium, or tier to pay. But there would be a land transaction fee. It would be 25% for 512 sq. meters. This would make the price of land to go up. While land barons would be somewhat hurt, they can raise the price of the land that they are selling. And demand for land would be high. So land barons would make even more money from selling land. And LL would also be making more money.

So whats the point in having premium accounts at all then? There has to be some distinction between basic and premium account otherwise whats the point. 

Giving basic that right may give a initial cash inject but without basic members paying teir/private rent anymore LL will lose and other private region owners as well. Why pay when you can get it for 'free' right?

[Frankie Antonioni]

Just now, ananoelle said:

So whats the point in having premium accounts at all then? There has to be some distinction between basic and premium account otherwise whats the point. 

Giving basic that right may give a initial cash inject but without basic members paying teir/private rent anymore LL will lose and other private region owners as well. Why pay when you can get it for 'free' right?

Premium members can own 1024 sq. meters of land. Verified basic members will own 512 sq. meters. And there are limits to that ownership. Like deeding the land to a group.  The land won't be for free. They will have to buy the land. And if the person is not on for 6 months, then he will lose the land.  There would also be a minor premium. They can own 1024 sq. meters, but they get no stipend, or live support. Many of the verified basics might go for minor premium, once they have owned 512 sq. meters. And 512 sq. meters is not much. 1024 sq. meters is much better. The amount that LL pays in stipend each week, is about $60.00 a year. So subtract that amount from your bill, and you get $12.00. Now it could be a little bit higher. Say $22.00, to $24.00 a year.  But we need somebody from LL to look into this, and see if it would make them more money.

[Asadora Summers]

1 hour ago, AnnetteMeadows said:

instead of taking away something that we already had and are use to (42 groups) and making so many people leave slwhen traffic seems to be slowing anyways....heres an idea for LL to help save "resources"! why not delete anything not sold or used or rezzed in sl since before 2007? 2010? omg every time you look on mp is way outdated thiings that im pretty sure noone buys thats just taking space on servers. and with a small program searching uuids im very sure this is completely possible. instead of ruining sl and making so many just get tired of less for more

 

Regarding outdated things - there is a fine line of preserving SL history whilst creating new SL history, in terms of grid-wide. Our virtual SL history reminds us of how it all began and how we started out and knowing where our virtual history came from adds to the appreciation factor of our virtual present. For some it may seem pointless, and others it is important. Personally, as an oldie, I enjoy being able to still see things that I first saw as a noob - it's a conversation starter for sure with other oldies as we duck walk down memory lane. And we can use that same history to show new residents just how far SL has come and be able to say, 'I was there.'

 

[Pamela Galli]

It really is significant, having LL solicit and then adjust course based on forum feedback. It makes the whole SL experience seem more like a community in partnership with LL. These forum-LL dialogues have been happening more and more over the last couple of years, and I think the result is a more collaborative relationship as we all work together to help SL thrive.  They also make the forums a much more valuable resource. 

Thank you Grumpity and all LIndens!  

 

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

1 hour ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

They just addressed the thing most complained about, and still criticism and complaints? Come on. 

ETA: Thanks @Grumpity Linden for listening and passing along the comments from users.

They do listen! Thanks to Grumpity and staff for listening to the customers.

Still plan to go in and clean up old avatars that hadn't logged in since 1845 from a couple of groups.

[ananoelle]

21 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

Premium members can own 1024 sq. meters of land. Verified basic members will own 512 sq. meters. And there are limits to that ownership. Like deeding the land to a group.  The land won't be for free. They will have to buy the land. And if the person is not on for 6 months, then he will lose the land.  There would also be a minor premium. They can own 1024 sq. meters, but they get no stipend, or live support. Many of the verified basics might go for minor premium, once they have owned 512 sq. meters. And 512 sq. meters is not much. 1024 sq. meters is much better. The amount that LL pays in stipend each week, is about $60.00 a year. So subtract that amount from your bill, and you get $12.00. Now it could be a little bit higher. Say $22.00, to $24.00 a year.  But we need somebody from LL to look into this, and see if it would make them more money.

512sqm isnt much but still big enough to make money from. So you get that buy it pay no tier but rent the land out and make money from it. 

Thats L$175 per week you could make from it. Deeding mainland to group, you then get a group bonus a extra 10% I think it is. You want that too? 

From what you are suggesting I can  then make 9 alts, verify them, pay $12 per alt and land grab 9 1024 sqm plots? 

So total of land id own would be 9216sqm deed them all to group and grab that 10% bonus?  

All that for a little more then the cost of a premium annual membership.

Yup id be keen on that too. When do you suggest the start this? 

 

Edit: 10% group prim bonus i mean. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by ananoelle

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Grumpity Linden said:

 

Thank you very much, all of you at LL. I can live with the offline cap being reduced. Things are looking up! And you guys do seem to be getting better at listening. Maybe go for a 24 hour reduction in the forum blowup time and have it run for 24 hours next time instead of 48. 

 

Edited June 1, 2019 by Selene Gregoire
one too many nexts

[Lukorange]

On 5/30/2019 at 3:28 AM, Grumpity Linden said:

UPDATE:  We have heard your feedback. There will be no change to group limits for basic accounts: https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/2559-group-limits-update-no-changes-for-basic-members/

OP:

_____

Thank you so much,  :") I can only write on the side of Basic residents. We might not be premium but we do spend lot of money in this plataform and sometimes having those groups  help more than what it seems. We don't have benefits fine, but at least leaving things as what they were is better than reducing the groups. Really hope  they continue listen the concern of the other half and give more benefits to Premium users so they can pay feeling satisfied. 

[Frankie Antonioni]

2 minutes ago, ananoelle said:

512sqm isnt much but still big enough to make money from. So you get that buy it pay no tier but rent the land out and make money from it. 

Thats L$175 per week you could make from it. Deeding mainland to group, you then get a group bonus a extra 10% I think it is. You want that too? 

From what you are suggesting I can  then make 9 alts, verify them, pay $12 per alt and land grab 9 1024 sqm plots? 

So total of land id own would be 9216sqm deed them all to group and grab that 10% bonus?  

All that for a little more then the cost of a premium annual membership.

Yup id be keen on that too. When do you suggest the start this? 

But you can't get minor premium for alts. Only one per person.  As for the 512 sq. meters, there would be no group bonus for verified basic. And you will have to be verified. This would need to be done by SSN, or some other ID number.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, WillowTenage said:

We just need to post cute images, it is the only way to appease everyone
 

 

No one can possibly be upset after seeing that image, if they are, we must throw them in the volcano

*steals*

[Kyrah Abattoir]

So how about dropping the transfer fee too?

Or was this a masterful example of how to perform a bait & switch?

Edited June 1, 2019 by Kyrah Abattoir

[LittleMe Jewell]

So, some groups did raise their join fee after the announcement on Wed - presumably to help reduce the number of people that LEFT their group.   I wonder if those merchants are now going to revert their join fee back.

For any group that I belong to that raised their fee, I have removed the group from my profile.  I won't give them free advertising - not that there are likely very many people that care what groups I belong to anyway.

 

ETA: Actually, I decided that almost all of my groups will not show in my profile, unless their join fee is free or truly minimal - L$25 or less.

Edited June 1, 2019 by LittleMe Jewell

[steeljane42]

Thanks LL for listening. Gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised, because I didn't really thought there will be more than some promises for later (to fix the groups and then consider increasing the limit for basic accounts again).

2.5% credit processing fee increase and more expensive premium still might be a bitter pill for some people and rightfully so, no one likes to pay more. But I think all reasonable people understand that sometimes such changes are necessary. And I believe everyone who did post their feedback in the last couple of days want SL to not just survive for another 16 years, but grow to be even better platform. I personally won't mind too much if creators will up their prices to make up for their losses, but I know it's a touchy subject and not all creators are willing to risk and see if their regular customers are loyal enough.

[MoiraKathleen]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

So, some groups did raise their join fee after the announcement on Wed - presumably to help reduce the number of people that LEFT their group.   I wonder if those merchants are now going to revert their join fee back.

For any group that I belong to that raised their fee, I have removed the group from my profile.  I won't give them free advertising - not that there are likely very many people that care what groups I belong to anyway.

There was one group which lowered their join fee after the announcement came out.  I don't remember which group it was, or where I saw the notice, but I thought that was a good move.  

When I decide I want to reduce the number of groups I'm a member of, the fact that a group had a join fee does not stop me from dropping it if I feel that I am no longer getting any value from that group. 

[Selene Gregoire]

6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

ETA: Actually, I decided that almost all of my groups will not show in my profile, unless their join fee is free or truly minimal - L$25 or less.

I've been doing that since they gave us the ability to hide our gruops. LOL

[ananoelle]

21 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

But you can't get minor premium for alts. Only one per person.  As for the 512 sq. meters, there would be no group bonus for verified basic. And you will have to be verified. This would need to be done by SSN, or some other ID number.

Lol i have 4 adults in my house. There's 4 verified minor premium accs. Grab a few friends and id have my desired amount.

Ideas are great im not knocking you down. This one however had to many loop holes and getting something others already pay for, for free basically. (premium pay for that right to buy land on mainland)

I had a idea to sell my group slots (not my finest idea). I didnt think about people abusing the system by paying monthly premium, selling all the group slots. Collecting the $L then not renewing their sub. It would be a shambles. 

[Frankie Antonioni]

I don't hide any of my groups. I do wish LL would allow group members the ability to see who is in a group. LL changed that because some people were offering unwanted TP. But I stopped unwanted TPs with a message in my profile. No longer do I get unwanted TPs.

[Polymath Snuggler]

4 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

I don't hide any of my groups. I do wish LL would allow group members the ability to see who is in a group. LL changed that because some people were offering unwanted TP. But I stopped unwanted TPs with a message in my profile. No longer do I get unwanted TPs.

Actually that limitation only exists for groups in excess of 5000 members. For the same reasons that they wanted to reduce the number of group slots ~ they also needed to limit groups with >5000 people from having interactions for the same "this is breaking SL" reasons. 

[Coffee Pancake]

SOoo ... Is this when we start to shout about the price increases, or are we all good now.

[Frankie Antonioni]

Just now, polysail said:

Actually that limitation only exists for groups in excess of 5000 members. For the same reasons that they wanted to reduce the number of group slots ~ they also needed to limit groups with >5000 people from having interactions for the same "this is breaking SL" reasons. 

I heard that the reason they made it so you can't see members in groups, that had over 5,000 members, was that some people were offering unwanted TPs. This was a few years back. A person, or persons from a club, were looking up people in groups, and were offering unwanted TPs. Abuse report, after abuse reports were sent. So LL removed the ability to see members, that had more than 5,000 members. The exception is the moderators, and the group owners.

[Polymath Snuggler]

I'm mostly okay with the state of things.  LL has been declaring the intent to switch revenue from land sales > microtransaction taxes for years.  I'm not pleased with it, but at the same time it's still better than every other platform available at the moment, so.  I'll pay my taxes and not grumble about it... for now.  If there's another fee hike and I'll start to grind my teeth a bit.

[ananoelle]

4 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

SOoo ... Is this when we start to shout about the price increases, or are we all good now.

Do you think they will back down like they did the group saga? If yes then, OK. If no then we are all good 👍lol

[Frankie Antonioni]

3 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

SOoo ... Is this when we start to shout about the price increases, or are we all good now.

While I can see a need for some price increase, I do think that a price increase of 30%, or more is too high. I can see a price increase to $75.00, or $77.00.  They need to look at other ways of making money.  They also need to do something about abandoned land. There's still lots of abandoned land. I heard that it is about 25%. Let's try to get that to 5%, or less.

[Coffee Pancake]

There is zero chance I am taking on any additional land, unless I can pay for it with all these extra empty group slots I have.

[WillowTenage]

6 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

SOoo ... Is this when we start to shout about the price increases, or are we all good now.

I'm really going to miss the old prices, but I kind of feel guilty about complaining too much about it as premium is still a really good deal.  Of course, if Linden labs really want to be generous I would be more than happy if they offered a discount after the first premium account 😍😎  (hint, hint, nudge, nudge, yanking on sleeve of the lindinites!)