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Grumpity Linden

A brief note on pricing changes, which ran long.

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3 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

 

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!!

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, polysail said:

Actually that limitation only exists for groups in excess of 5000 members. For the same reasons that they wanted to reduce the number of group slots ~ they also needed to limit groups with >5000 people from having interactions for the same "this is breaking SL" reasons. 

Nope, as owner of a group, I can click a little box that will prevent anyone else in the group from seeing anybody except the owners.

ETA:  As Frankie mentioned, the 'always show' might apply to moderators also (which makes sense).  I have no moderators in my group.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

Nope, as owner of a group, I can click a little box that will prevent anyone else in the group from seeing anybody except the owners.

Yes, that's always been a functionality ~ but that doesn't invalidate the fact that that is mandatory for groups that are 5000 + .

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4 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

While I can see a need for some price increase, I do think that a price increase of 30%, or more is too high. I can see a price increase to $75.00, or $77.00.  They need to look at other ways of making money.  They also need to do something about abandoned land. There's still lots of abandoned land. I heard that it is about 25%. Let's try to get that to 5%, or less.

Given that the Premium fee has "never"" been increased, the increase amount is likely justified, but yeah, 37.5% in one swoop is a bit of a pill.

We definitely need to decrease the abandoned land.

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2 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

Does LL accept cash gift cards? If so, I might buy those.

Nope - but if you can get a Verified PayPal account, you might be able to add those as funds there.

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2 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

 

thank you so much for hearing what people have said. i know business is hard and always needs to adjust and listen to their customers and i really appreciate you guys listening AND making a change. 

Seth Godin (whom I read and study with) teaches a lot about the new way of marketing and how companies who want to succeed really need to listen to their loyal customers. and you changing this really is a positive thing to me.

will you please also get back to us on the doubled fee for creators? i've gotten tons of messages from creators who are so discouraged. like really. 

the feeling is not realizing without what we make, what we create, what we contribute, you'd have no product. to hire people to do what we collectively do would cost so much money and make you none unless you charged a ton for products. 

we hope you will please reconsider this enormous increase to us, and realize that we have a LOT of costs and to take that much, double what we pay now with less than even a 30 day notice is really bad for business.

thanks for listening about groups and I and many of my fellow content creators await your reply.

sincerely and respectfully,

callie cline

p.s. many said they couldn't post here as they are swamped getting ready for releases... and those releases and events and things make you a LOT of money. please somehow try to see it from our point of view. thanks so much for considering! 

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1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Nope, as owner of a group, I can click a little box that will prevent anyone else in the group from seeing anybody except the owners.

ETA:  As Frankie mentioned, the 'always show' might apply to moderators also (which makes sense).  I have no moderators in my group.

I was talking about when you join a group. Used to, when you joined a group, you could see every member. And you could search for a member, and see when they were on last.

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1 minute ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

I was talking about when you join a group. Used to, when you joined a group, you could see every member. And you could search for a member, and see when they were on last.

Ask the group owner. They can disable member visibility 

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Just now, Frankie Antonioni said:

I was talking about when you join a group. Used to, when you joined a group, you could see every member. And you could search for a member, and see when they were on last.

If the number of group members is less than 5000 and if the owner has not ticked that box - though most do these days - then you can still see the member list and search it.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, ananoelle said:

Ask the group owner. They can disable member visibility 

Not that part. This was made a few years ago. You could join a group that had several thousand members, and enter a person's name in the group search, and it would show their name. That was changed because of unwanted TP offers.

Edited by Frankie Antonioni

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

Not that part. This was made a few years ago. You could join a group that had several thousand members, and enter a person's name in the group search, and it would show their name. That was changed because of unwanted TP offers.

It was actually changed primarily because of the load it put on the system, having to pull up the entire list (and their last logon on date and their donated tier) every time someone clicked on the Member tab.  That is why it is enforced if the member list is 5000 or more members.

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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On 5/30/2019 at 10:59 AM, janetosilio said:

Here’s a suggestion, and I hope it’s constructive. Why not consider adding a premium plan that includes 3 alts for free or something?

The way I see it, the biggest legit complaint is coming from business owners that are saying this is going to hurt their business. So why not offer something that is an incentive to go premium and they get something of value in return?

Since I'm still behind in this thread - way, way behind - not sure if someone mentioned this, but I'm not sure how that is a benefit.  Right now, whether I am premium or not, I can have a half dozen or more alts.

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9 hours ago, Grumpity Linden said:

 

We have approximately 90,000 basic members with 36 or more groups.  We have approximately 10,000 premium subscribers with 55 or more groups.  This is not a 1:1 change.  Does that help with the confusion?  

 

Hmmm, likely safe to bet about 2-15% of that 90k are still active accounts. If I assume 20% active, that's max <3% affected. That's slightly higher than I would have guessed.

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I can see an increase is needed & over due but a 37.5% increase with no stipend increase to go with it. It should have a cost of living increase of L$112 a week to match the US$ 37.5% increase. 

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16 minutes ago, Callie Cline said:

thank you so much for hearing what people have said. i know business is hard and always needs to adjust and listen to their customers and i really appreciate you guys listening AND making a change. 

Seth Godin (whom I read and study with) teaches a lot about the new way of marketing and how companies who want to succeed really need to listen to their loyal customers. and you changing this really is a positive thing to me.

will you please also get back to us on the doubled fee for creators? i've gotten tons of messages from creators who are so discouraged. like really. 

the feeling is not realizing without what we make, what we create, what we contribute, you'd have no product. to hire people to do what we collectively do would cost so much money and make you none unless you charged a ton for products. 

we hope you will please reconsider this enormous increase to us, and realize that we have a LOT of costs and to take that much, double what we pay now with less than even a 30 day notice is really bad for business.

thanks for listening about groups and I and many of my fellow content creators await your reply.

sincerely and respectfully,

callie cline

p.s. many said they couldn't post here as they are swamped getting ready for releases... and those releases and events and things make you a LOT of money. please somehow try to see it from our point of view. thanks so much for considering! 

LL has to make money somehow.  The business model for SL needs to evolve as people aren't really interested in owning land all that much, but constantly shop.  It's been 15 years, I'd say some updates are needed.  I'm not pleased about shouldering more of the 'keep the lights on' bill, but servers don't run for free.  It's a bit of a squeeze, but really, if it's THAT much of a problem, like any other business out there you can just raise your prices 9% and offset it to the customer.  It's not great.  But that's how economies work.  At least as a business, you have that option.

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Thank you so much @Grumpity Linden @Kat Linden and @Patch Linden for coming in and being involved in this thread, and thank you so much to LL for listening and hearing the Residents. 

While the increase to fees is still a big thing for many, I am very proud of the community and how it came together on this on the side of basic account holders, everyone saw how it would impact SL as a whole. 

High fives to everyone.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Louisea Tigerpaw said:

I can see an increase is needed & over due but a 37.5% increase with no stipend increase to go with it. It should have a cost of living increase of L$112 a week to match the US$ 37.5% increase. 

You realize, that L$ earned from the stipend can be cashed out, and then used to re-purchase premium right?  And that Premium didn't really cost 72$ USD / year all this time, because they've always been paying you 62$ USD back in L$ ( minus 3.5% transaction fee ) >  60$ USD of that back , for an actual real 12$ USD annual membership fee cost.  And that the actual cost of the new Premium, when the stipend refund is factored back in is still only 39$ USD per year.

That's $3.25 USD per month....

 

EDIT:

As an addendum, I'll point out that they *FOR FREE* doubled the land allotment for the premium accounts a year ago.

So that means you now get 1024 sq.m of land for your 3.25 USD / month.  That's an actual rent cost of 203 L$ / wk for 1024 sq.m of mainland parcel.

Edited by polysail
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I'm not complaining about anything, other than my three premium accounts I paid annual for Nov- March I am squeamish about renewing all at once before Jun 24.. That's a big chunk of money for me. If I was charged the renewal when the subscription expired, that'd spread it out, but paying three annuals at once is definitely giving me reason to let the extras go. I understand how paying now extends the subscription a year past current expiration, but it's not completely clear if I am charged immediately. It seems most likely that yes, I'd be charged $216.00 and I just can't. Only option is to just brush off the opportunity for 1 more year at the old rate.

 I think the most recent development about groups is a huge step for LL, and the farm fuzzy feelings that were repaired will more than make up for continued back end problems.. am I the only one who has been giggling like a 3rd grader every time someone mentions back end issues? Whirly's hippo seemed to be having them too.

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6 minutes ago, Louisea Tigerpaw said:

I can see an increase is needed & over due but a 37.5% increase with no stipend increase to go with it. It should have a cost of living increase of L$112 a week to match the US$ 37.5% increase. 

I'm fine with the increase if it is what allowed them to lower land costs a little bit.  People have been asking for reductions in land costs for quite awhile, LL has talked about moving away from a model where the land costs are the major income support, which would mean something else would need to change to help balance that out.  I just saw this increase as part of the steps towards that. 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Louisea Tigerpaw said:

I can see an increase is needed & over due but a 37.5% increase with no stipend increase to go with it. It should have a cost of living increase of L$112 a week to match the US$ 37.5% increase. 

They can't provide a stipend increase that would fully balance out the premium fee increase as that would negate the whole reason for doing it -- to increase their income.  Additionally, they have to be careful with dumping so many L$ into the economy that it messes up the proper market balance.  

 

 

11 minutes ago, polysail said:

You realize, that L$ earned from the stipend can be cashed out, and then used to re-purchase premium right?  And that Premium didn't really cost 72$ USD / year all this time, because they've always been paying you 62$ USD back in L$ ( minus 3.5% transaction fee ) >  60$ USD of that back , for an actual real 12$ USD annual membership fee cost.  And that the actual cost of the new Premium, when the stipend refund is factored back in is still only 39$ USD per year.

That's $3.25 USD per month.... 

The percentage value is what hits hard.  It is a 37.5% increase over the raw fee.  If you factor in the cost after selling your L$ -- i.e. it was $12 and now it is $39 -- then that is actually a 225% increase.


 

I'm not really whining about the increase and I will keep my premium alts, but the percentages are rough for some to swallow.

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell
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8 minutes ago, moirakathleen said:

I'm fine with the increase if it is what allowed them to lower land costs a little bit.

Land costs to region owners and, potentially, renters of land on private regions.

Mainland folk not so much.

Just now, LittleMe Jewell said:

They can't provide a stipend increase that would fully balance out the premium fee increase as that would negate the whole reason for doing it 

LL don't (or at least shouldn't) buy L$ when they are converted to US, people buying L$ to spend do.

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46 minutes ago, Frankie Antonioni said:

While I can see a need for some price increase, I do think that a price increase of 30%, or more is too high. I can see a price increase to $75.00, or $77.00.  They need to look at other ways of making money.  They also need to do something about abandoned land. There's still lots of abandoned land. I heard that it is about 25%. Let's try to get that to 5%, or less.

Well, the experience in Bellissaria seems to be showing the way. From that experience, we can learn that people like water access. So maybe some rivers, canals, lakes, and islands would be good. Most of that could be carved into existing space.

We can also learn that people want relief from ban lines and security orb abuse. So curb that in a similar way to how it was done there. It couldn't be identical but the same general idea of requiring a concrete time amount would work well.

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Before there was a Lindex, there was a Gaming Open Market. Or GOM. They bought, and sold L$, PEDs, There bucks, Simoleons, and Star Wars currency. This was back in 2004, and 2005. I wasn't in SL then, but I did read about it. LL wanted to buy out GOM, but they wouldn't sell. So LL created the Lindex.

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On 5/30/2019 at 1:11 PM, hippopotomonstrosesquipedalian said:

So if I get a premium membership today, I still pay the old price, and on June 4th, I can lock in that price for another year, so I get two years at the old price?

Asking for a friend fellow alt... 😉

(Pretty good value if that's the case...)

Given this and the fact that one of my land alts is due for renewal in mid-July, I am tempted to let the land alt revert to Basic and instead upgrade a current Basic alt this weekend and then do the pre-pay on Monday.  That will give that account 2 years at the lower price rather than just extending a year past mid-July.

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