What would YOU do if you were Linden Lab?

[Nextio]

8 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

Why? What on earth? Why should I have to be segregated as if I'm something shameful? My lindens hold the same value as anyone else's. Adult accounts shouldn't be able to see or communicate with non-adult accounts? That's ridiculous. I have sex in the real world, too, yet I'm still able to converse with people who may not have sex. Children even! Priests! Nuns! Oh, the horror!

Yes, I engage in adult activities in SL. A lot of them. I also shop nearly every event, live on Bellisseria, go see live music, explore, pay tier on another property, spend thousands of lindens on the MP on everything from BDSM gear to a bowl of pink roses as well as a ton of in-world retail shopping... I do all the things PG accounts do, spend the same money, AND spend even more paying for memberships to exclusive adult sims, clubs, and resorts as well as the expensive X-rated furniture the PG accounts don't. 

Segregate me? Absolutely not. 

If people don't want to go to adult sims or view adult profiles, they have that option. Hiding adult accounts and pretending we don't exist is absolutely ludicrous and offensive. Without us, SL wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. 

Because regardless of your personal opinions, sex has always been a taboo subject in societies, past and present.  I should've been more clear, but i meant from a business perspective, and the safest move would've been separating accounts.

Look at it from a business viewpoint.  Imagine if a popular brand such as Nike or Sony were in SL.  You really think they want their businesses associated with a virtual world that allows BDSM, rape, and *****?  The backlash and boycotts wouldn't be worth it for them.

[Drac Coalcliff]

A lot of MMOs have a middle tier where if you bought anything from them or were a premium member at one point they dont crap on you...

How about not handicapping people who are paying $100 a month for lindens but not for membership because they think the mushroom wizard home, 117 prims and 300 Lindens stipend just arent worth it... How about those people keep the group limits they have now, and the actual free accounts can be moved down?

 

Ive been buying a fake currency from them since 2006, I think id think I deserved more than a kick and the teeth and no support afterwards.

[Beth Macbain]

2 minutes ago, Nextio said:

Because regardless of your personal opinions, sex has always been a taboo subject in societies, past and present.  I should've been more clear, but i meant from a business perspective, and the safest move would've been separating accounts.

Look at it from a business viewpoint.  Imagine if a popular brand such as Nike or Sony were in SL.  You really think they want their businesses associated with a virtual world that allows BDSM, rape, and *****?  The backlash and boycotts wouldn't be worth it for them.

I have no idea what ***** was that got censored, but if Nike and Sony don't want to advertise in a world where adult activities exist, they should probably just close up shop. 

Sex hasn't always been a taboo subject. Those naughty Romans certainly didn't shy away from it. There are pornographic cave paintings. The Victorians were filthy. 

There is nothing wrong with BDSM, consensual rape fantasies (which is what SL allows) and, hmmm... five letters... yeah, still not sure. Could be any number of things. There was a time not so long ago that a brand wouldn't want to be associated with anything LGBTQ. Times changes. 

Don't come to my adult world... fine. I'm cool with that. But don't even consider segregating me from your PG world. I have a right to be there just as much as anyone. I do own clothes and have the common sense to know how to dress and behave appropriately according to my surroundings. 

[Coffee Pancake]

16 minutes ago, Nextio said:

Because regardless of your personal opinions, sex has always been a taboo subject in societies, past and present.  I should've been more clear, but i meant from a business perspective, and the safest move would've been separating accounts.

Look at it from a business viewpoint.  Imagine if a popular brand such as Nike or Sony were in SL.  You really think they want their businesses associated with a virtual world that allows BDSM, rape, and *****?  The backlash and boycotts wouldn't be worth it for them.

 

There are more than a few dead corporate friendly worlds of which the Lab's Sansar is just the latest body atop the pile. Huge amounts of investor cash have been burnt chasing that particular vision, and for some unknown reason, advertiser friendly wholesome content tends to make for bland sterile experiences that no-one cares to participate in. Every single family friendly virtual world ever is long dead or dying. 

If that really is your bag, then I hate to say it .. but this is not the virtual world for you. Not the other way around.

Also, don't conflate BDSM with actual rape. One is a lifestyle the other is a sex crime.

Edited May 30, 2019 by CoffeeDujour

[Branduff Bisnovat]

Were I Linden Lab, with regard to Second Life I would...

1. Get strict with Land Impact and Avatar Complexity.  Textures and triangles are out of control, out of control I say!

2. Update the system avatars.

3. Update camera position and FOV.

4. Address the learning curve.  I think a good start would be hiding most of the interface and changing the default movement keys to WASD as well as the arrow keys, and setting chat to open/close with Enter by default.

5. Revitalize mainland.

6. Make a new mentor program, or something like it.  New users have told me that they're overwhelmed and feel bad asking people questions.

7. Advertise with podcasters, youtubers, and other new media personalities.

[Selene Gregoire]

4 minutes ago, Branduff Bisnovat said:

setting chat to open/close with Enter by default.

I've always strongly disliked that. STO is that way and it's a major pain in my head when it's the only place I go that is like that. The rest I could get on board with but those things won't solve the immediate issue(s).

[Branduff Bisnovat]

37 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I've always strongly disliked that. STO is that way and it's a major pain in my head when it's the only place I go that is like that.

I hear that for sure, different strokes.  The default control scheme just felt counter-intuitive to me when I came back from my last break, and that's how I personally changed it.

[Selene Gregoire]

11 minutes ago, Branduff Bisnovat said:

I hear that for sure, different strokes.  The default control scheme just felt counter-intuitive to me when I came back from my last break, and that's how I personally changed it.

Yep. Different strokes for different folks. What works for one won't necessarily work for another is what I usually say. 

[SibyllVane]

4 hours ago, ZairaSangh said:

My Mom and I were just discussing this - and some of the ideas/suggestions we bounced off each other included but were not limited to:

 

Purging old accounts that are taking up server space.  People that have not touched SL in ten years are probably not coming back. And even if they do, nothing in their inventories would be relevant - so you send an email to the email address on file and give them to the end of the year to log into their account if they want to keep it.  If not - purge.  Same goes for land/parcels that have not been touched.  Tons of "abandoned land" just sitting - taking up server space.  

 

Offer tiered Premium subscriptions.  Something like a $5/mo option where you only get the perks of getting into events easier - some people definitely have it ONLY for this.  It would include no parcel, no extra groups, and no stipend.  Then go from there.  Next step up gets more groups, small stipend, land/house.  Next up gets even more groups, bigger stipend, etc.  

 

ASK the community what they would like to see as options.  "We need to raise the prices for the first time in x amount of years - here are some options we came up with.  We can either take away THAT and give you THIS..or..."  INVOLVE the people that are playing!  WE are the ones this affects!

 

I wholeartedly agree with all of this, it's exactly what I was going to suggest, and it's something I've thinking about long before these ooooh amazing news LL has brought us yesterday.

With enough time for a response, purging very old and unused accounts seems pretty fair and it would drastically reduce the load on servers - until switch to the cloud is completed - and maybe help with groups' lag, ultimately. How many people created alts for just one specific reason, or for the fun of it, just to forget about them the next day? Which brings me to the next point.

Limit the number of alts per account (or email) to what, 3? Maybe 5? I have often heard of people having up to what, 30 alts, and you can imagine the reasons behind this being plain malicious. Of course, this would only apply to new Premium users. Old ones would keep theirs, until first point applies.

Last, YES, YES, YES PLEASE: offer tiered (if not à la carte) Premium subscriptions!

That's my take... for now lol

[Coffee Pancake]

Purging accounts would not do anything, aside from make people who decide to spin up SL after a long break upset that their account is gone.

 

[DarkRavenWolfie]

10 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Purging accounts would not do anything, aside from make people who decide to spin up SL after a long break upset that their account is gone.

 

not to mention accounts that had money spent on /linden cash topped up

[SibyllVane]

9 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Purging accounts would not do anything, aside from make people who decide to spin up SL after a long break upset that their account is gone.

 

After you have been away for so many years, I think the only deterrent would be having to start from scratch with styling, and adjusting to the new features. Might as well make a new account, if you really want to play. I know I wouldn't feel entitled to be pissed if I were to be away for 5+ years and my account to be purged PRIOR a fair warning

[SibyllVane]

1 minute ago, DarkRavenWolfie said:

not to mention accounts that had money spent on /linden cash topped up

That yes, they would need to find a way to refund the L$ you have on said account, but that sounds easily done to me?

[DarkRavenWolfie]

1 minute ago, SibyllVane said:

That yes, they would need to find a way to refund the L$ you have on said account, but that sounds easily done to me?

unless those old accounts really clog up whatever database they may have, it sounds a bit pointless

[SibyllVane]

2 minutes ago, DarkRavenWolfie said:

unless those old accounts really clog up whatever database they may have, it sounds a bit pointless

Well for starters, the amount of offlines would fall, if those accounts are part of x groups, besides relieving said groups from unnecessary lag, as I mentioned before. It may sound like just a drop in the ocean, but we can't determine that if we don't know the volume of actual inactive accounts... it might actually make up for the group allowance being kept at 42, for non-premium users?

[DarkRavenWolfie]

2 minutes ago, SibyllVane said:

Well for starters, the amount of offlines would fall, if those accounts are part of x groups, besides relieving said groups from unnecessary lag, as I mentioned before. It may sound like just a drop in the ocean, but we can't determine that if we don't know the volume of actual inactive accounts... it might actually make up for the group allowance being kept at 42, for non-premium users?

I think if Second Life really cared about those, they would have done it by now.

 

Then again im no business person so hey *knocks on wood*

[SibyllVane]

8 minutes ago, DarkRavenWolfie said:

I think if Second Life really cared about those, they would have done it by now.

 

Then again im no business person so hey *knocks on wood*

I agree, but still wonder why they don't 🙄🤔😔

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, SibyllVane said:

I agree, but still wonder why they don't 🙄🤔😔

If it's not broken .... 

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/29/2019 at 11:04 PM, Chic Aeon said:

I see a ton of folks b****ing and moaning over the new changes.  I am not thrilled either as I will be paying about $150 more each year. BUT personally I don't see a better plan.

So what EXACTLY would you do if you were The Lab to "balance the spreadsheet" so to speak?

Decisions that impact one set of people don't impact another. Is it fair for one group of people to take on the new burden and not the others?

If you have some stellar ideas --- let The Lab know. Maybe they will take that into consideration in the future. Remember Linden Lab is a BUSINESS. It needs to make a profit or it just disbands. So the "give me 500 lindens stipend now" and the "give alts a discount on costs" topics just aren't going to cut it.

 

Personally, while not excited about new plan I can see MANY other alternatives that would be worse.

So give it your best shot --- or maybe just be quiet.

 

Always choices. 

I've always been very clear on what the Lab needs to do:

1. Increase capacity for inworld advertising by restoring ads at infohubs or any kind of Linden gathering place. These could have rules like "M" rated and be purchased for a modest sum, and rotate out after a week with the inability to repeat at the hub for X time if the retail space was limited.

2. Increase Linden roadside billboards where ads also ca be purchased. This is left to residents in a sometimes ugly, unregulated manner. LL should make its own network of ad boards.

3. Enables ads and rotating store spaces at newbie landing places. Again, the grotesque fear of commerce is actually harming retention as people can't see where to shop, hang out, etc. and are instead railroaded into learning arcane skills they don't need and left to fend with bots and griefers as no one with a vested interest in SL is within miles.

4. Just as there is a section on the forums to advertise land, have a section to advertise new products or services. And enhance the ability to advertise land on the MP, which is now expensive and annoying. 

5. Stop punishing people for putting items in the wrong category on the MP and simple flip them to the right one with a notice.

6. Create an option for creators, merchants, business owners to have a bulk upload fee that is less per upload than $10 if they have X amount of tier or Y amount of income per month. This really adds up and a discount is in order for those incurring thousands of dollars in texture upload fees.

o No one cares about sim seams -- this is a geek obsession and the obsession of certain megalomaniacs with world-building ambitions to control people. Most users to not drive or ride enough to care.

o Grey squares and lag would be nice to fix, but again, most don't travel enough to feel its effects.

o The new windlight is not something the public demanded, but again, a small set of geeks and artists for their own needs/wants. It's about to bring havoc and tears.

Whenever I invest extra funds in advertising, I'm always amazed at the payoff in new customers. But it's too expensive to buy classifieds, and it is too hard to measure them in the current system (what does it mean if someone looked at your profile? Nothing, if they didn't click through and rent).

The Lindens don't really care about inworld business, except for a few large big revenue groups of landlords or breedable creators. And it shows. It means they don't encourage medium and small business and then don't have customers themselves.

[Coffee Pancake]

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've always been very clear on what the Lab needs to do:

1. Increase capacity for inworld advertising by restoring ads at infohubs or any kind of Linden gathering place. These could have rules like "M" rated and be purchased for a modest sum, and rotate out after a week with the inability to repeat at the hub for X time if the retail space was limited.

oh please no

😐

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

2. Increase Linden roadside billboards where ads also ca be purchased. This is left to residents in a sometimes ugly, unregulated manner. LL should make its own network of ad boards.

😧

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

3. Enables ads and rotating store spaces at newbie landing places. Again, the grotesque fear of commerce is actually harming retention as people can't see where to shop, hang out, etc. and are instead railroaded into learning arcane skills they don't need and left to fend with bots and griefers as no one with a vested interest in SL is within miles.

😨

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

5. Stop punishing people for putting items in the wrong category on the MP and simple flip them to the right one with a notice.

😰

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

o No one cares about sim seams -- this is a geek obsession and the obsession of certain megalomaniacs with world-building ambitions to control people. Most users to not drive or ride enough to care.

😱

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

o Grey squares and lag would be nice to fix, but again, most don't travel enough to feel its effects.

😵

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

o The new windlight is not something the public demanded, but again, a small set of geeks and artists for their own needs/wants. It's about to bring havoc and tears.

💀

33 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Whenever I invest extra funds in advertising, I'm always amazed at the payoff in new customers. But it's too expensive to buy classifieds, and it is too hard to measure them in the current system (what does it mean if someone looked at your profile? Nothing, if they didn't click through and rent).

The Lindens don't really care about inworld business, except for a few large big revenue groups of landlords or breedable creators. And it shows. It means they don't encourage medium and small business and then don't have customers themselves.

⛔

 

 

How much money do we have to give LL to opt out of "Prok Life"

Just name the price, we wont protest, not a word.

 

 

[Fox Wijaya]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've always been very clear on what the Lab needs to do:

sometimes you really have humor Prok 

but to most...ehm... nahh don't do that please

Edited May 31, 2019 by Fox Wijaya

[Adam Spark]

If I were Linden Lab:

I would take on the onus of fixing problems. If its "too hard to fix", I wouldn't resign myself to that excuse. I'd fix it, say that was hard and move on. I sure would not limit the experience for my customers to account for what I couldn't fix. I'd find a buyer willing and able to fix it before doing that. It wouldn't be on my customers to make up for what I couldn't make work. Not on my watch.

I would end the days of paying 4 figures a year for land. Linden Lab will tell you (cause they have said it already on these forums) that they couldn't reduce land costs as much as they did last year. In reality, they can do whatever they want. They could pay us to take their land tomorrow if they wanted to do it and make it work. What they are really saying is they think it would hurt their bottom line too much. Well, the volume of sales would skyrocket if land became available for 50 bucks a month with $99 startup fee, the number of people pulling out of land ownership for economic reasons would plummet, the amount of abandoned land polluting and devaluing the world would plummet, the amount of bad publicity due to rising costs elsewhere would plummet, land tier would plummet, more people could afford premium membership, and the community would just be a happier place. Hmmmm, are you sure you folks can't do that @Grumpity Linden? Do you really think there isn't a market for $50 a month regions that wouldn't match up with or surpass how things are today economically?

I would change how groups function. Land rights would not rely on groups. I would move land roles to white lists in about land, or revamped version of it. Or alternatively, I would create two subgroup categories. Land and commerce/communication. Each group type would have its own set of tools, capabilities and roles. I would limit users to 45 of each until *I* figured out how to make an unlimited number of groups work, as I would be responsible for that, not my customers. Once I figured it out, whether it took me a week or 15 years, I would remove the limit.

I would increase the MP tax on sales from 5% to 10%. This sounds like a bitter pill to swallow in today's structure, but it would prove to be just fine if land was less than $100 a month.

I would increase the upload cost slightly, and maybe increased bulk uploads significantly.

I would make Library items removable. Send me a default avatar if I request it or try to default my avatar for whatever reason.

I would experiment with whether a LL supported mesh creation tool was feasible.

Lastly I would create a premium lite that allowed cashouts, and a free account that did not. No more than $5 a month. I might even think about doing two free account types, one with cashouts and more indentity verification and one without. Major fraud fix.

I would create Linden Dollar gift cards in the same vein as Gift Visas and iTunes cards and experiment with other avenues of buying linden dollars (usage of gift visas as one example).

Edited May 31, 2019 by Adam Spark

[Zeta Vandyke]

Some points that would increase the value/fun from my own point of view. If they are at all possible or good practice from a business point of view, I don't know.

• Make the monthly L$ stipend equal (or close) to the value of your subscription fee. That could convince a lot of "free account people" like me who already buys L$ on regular base to go premium since they get the same(ish) in return as before. This ensures LL with a steady guaranteed income instead of a random one.
• Additional Premium function: Allow a number of avies to be tied to one account (shared inventory?). Its common in every MMO. Allow merging of current multiple accounts if this is made possible
• Design new functionalities for purposes we now use groups for and they are not meant for. (support, shop/event subscriptions, whatever). After, redesign social groups in a non server killing way. Should not be rocket science
• Create a system that Encourages people to clean up outdated (and performance killing) items. (no idea how)
• Clean up not active mainland. There's so many hugely outdated non active builds polluting the landscape, it ruins the mainland experience for many.
• Provide LL created content for system functionalities. (Not creative content), like vendors, unpack containers,  tip systems, advertisement boards, and probably tons more people can think off, so they no longer use scripts by the hundreds of thousands

The first two points would make me go for premium. Currently there's nothing in the premium perks that hold much attraction.

On thing that bugs me most about the focus on the subscription based model is what you get in return. I know its a very common model opposed to free to play. But in general, if you do a subscription based "game" you get full access and no longer need to buy stuff in micro transactions and stuff like that. As opposed to free to play, where they make money by offering all sorts of (sometime pay to win) micro transactions.

Now LL wants to switch focus from free to sub model, but you hardly get anything worth wile in return. (imo)

[Crim Mip]

On 5/29/2019 at 11:31 PM, Nextio said:

Linden Labs biggest mistake was not separating Adult accounts from everyone else.  There should have been a total separation.  Flagged adult accounts should have had their own servers and unable to communicate or see non-flagged adult accounts.  They could still do it, but it's going to cause a lot of backlash and technical problems now.

Wow, you really don't know much about SL history do you. There was a fair amount of time when there was a teen grid for those under 18 and the main grid for those who were older than 18. Pretty much what you suggested. It didn't work. The teen grid had nowhere near the content. There was constant piracy of main grid items and, since adults weren't allowed on the teen grid, no real way to check if your items were being stolen. Finally, the age verification company LL was using was so crappy that there were more teens on the main grid than on the teen grid while many actual adults had issues trying to verify. LL finally more or less gave up and consolodated them. That's when they made a cursory effort to move adult stuff to Zindra, but I think that was mostly for press releases. The fact is there is just as much adult activity on the rest of the grid as there ever was. I'm sorry if you've been hiding under a rock and didn't notice that. 

[clivesteel]

May I just say...

As one of SL's most loyal users...and yet one who has had to weather constant, vicious bullying from the 'forum cartel' (including PMs telling me to drink bleach and kill myself, and abuse so bad I had to log off with a migraine for several days)...9+ years of sandbox griefing (mostly the alts of 'respected' creators and landowners)...total disinterest from LL (it should come as no surprise that they consider basic accounts 'second class': nor should you expect them to clear up the filthy, foul 'CANZ I PLAY AS ANOTHER RACE DUHH LOLOL DROOL" nazi threads that still continue to pollute this forum like the excrement caking the sidewalks in San Francisco...)

I can't deny a sense of schadenfreude at seeing some of my tormentors now crushed by the very juggernaut they stubbornly toiled to create 🤣

As I mentioned before...this is what you wanted instead of fairness. Now live with it.