So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Chery Amore]

7 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

There's a contigent here who don't want this. That's why. Im with you, happy to see the company is taking steps. Steps that can be refined over time if need be. 

Yeah I don't get it.. we know it can't stop all illegal age activities but these new rules put more barriers in place. They say to people that do these things that you are under a microscope now. I'm sure some will move on due to this.
I get the cost and effort arguements.  But I'd think people that want to play innocent children in those communities would overall embrace the changes for their own protection and to help oust the bad apples.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Vanity Fair said:

Sigh...the things I do for you people.... okay, here ya go (by the way, every one of these babies is 34 prims!):

That reminds me of baby sitting!! \o/

hehehe

[Alwin Alcott]

14 minutes ago, Cindy Evanier said:

 because I haven't for soooooo long  😇

👍 to see you posting again 😉

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Punishing a group of people for something that MIGHT happen worked well in the past. (It didn't)

If you feel punished by being held to avoid the sexualised display of a child and by being held to avoid promoting and accessing  adult rated content and sites while playing a child there must be something wrong with your interpretation.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

"Mormon underwear" is only for teens and older, not for kids.

That gives me an idea though, maybe LL will start selling "official underwear", or include it in our inventory libraries!

Edited May 3 by Love Zhaoying

[brodiac90]

2 minutes ago, Bimbo Mommy said:

They haven't even clearly defined their expectation of modesty. Everyone's is different, as is very obvious by the clothing trends on SL... some clarity on this would be excellent. As far as I'm concerned in general, the crotch is the main issue for coverage on all bodies, and anything beyond that should probably be to the discretion of the user, like chest coverings so kid skins can still be mostly gender-universal. But they haven't necessarily defined their standard of modesty. Especially since most kid bodies use the SLUV, they could just be providing an item mapped to their expected minimum standard so we have a point of reference? Do they want basic sticker type coverings, underwear, shorts? What's the expectation before it also widely ruins existing products that aren't necessarily inappropriate, like some swimsuits?

This is my concern. I use the Tweenster avatar. I'm a boy but the avatar is female based. At my age it doesn't really matter as there are no differences anyway, but as a boy will I need a chest modesty layer? 

[Leslie Trihey]

I feel as a few people aren't even reading the concerns of people against these TOS changes and just want to play the role of a crusader and hurl out accusations. Real reactionary moment.

[Leslie Trihey]

2 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

If you feel punished by being held to avoid the sexualised display of a child and by being held to avoid promoting and accessing  adult rated content and sites while playing a child there must be something wrong with your interpretation.

Case in point of someone not reading concerns and just wanting to hurl out accusations.

[MissSweetViolet]

1 minute ago, Leslie Trihey said:

Case in point of someone not reading concerns and just wanting to hurl out accusations.

To be fair she seems to hold a grudge against child avatars in general based off her posts. I'd just ignore her.

[Leslie Trihey]

1 minute ago, MissSweetViolet said:

To be fair she seems to hold a grudge against child avatars in general based off her posts. I'd just ignore her.

Good advice.

[Alwin Alcott]

4 minutes ago, Chery Amore said:

these new rules put more barriers in place.

hardly .. hardliners could open a closed community on a M or even G  group access only region.
The new rules are more clear as it was before, but to be honest i don't see any loopholes getting closed by this action.

[Sammy Huntsman]

I mean I may debate some people on the rules. However, I think these are far more transparent and clear than the previous policies on this subject matter. And I am fine with this, these more clear and transparent rules, should have been a thing a long time ago. 

[Chery Amore]

1 minute ago, Alwin Alcott said:

hardly .. hardliners could open a closed community on a M or even G  group access only region.
The new rules are more clear as it was before, but to be honest i don't see any loopholes getting closed by this action.

Sure .. Hardliners with money to spend, what about outskirters, or those that don't want to put funds into it,  or those that are just feeling more uneasy about getting caught with their proverbial pants down?  I already said it can't stop all.. and some will move on and I believe that.  

[Bimbo Mommy]

6 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

This is my concern. I use the Tweenster avatar. I'm a boy but the avatar is female based. At my age it doesn't really matter as there are no differences anyway, but as a boy will I need a chest modesty layer? 

I think unfortunately, tweenster is one of the kid mesh bodies likely to be ousted from the grid altogether from the convo i have seen on facebook about it unless they update. I think your best bet is youth or tweeneedoo for alternatives to swap to. but at least for skins, they need to explain what they expect from skin creators before just demanding people make a major change like that in like what, less than 2mo? 

[Love Zhaoying]

I wonder if anyone is willing to proclaim themselves as an "expert" in this topic, so we can get THEIR perspective?

For examples: How are their community and friends impacted by the changes in TOS?  How do they feel about being "forced" to be an adult to perform adult activities - just to follow the changes in TOS?  What is it like being judged by everyone, even more so now with the changes in TOS?

 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean I may debate some people on the rules. However, I think these are far more transparent and clear than the previous policies on this subject matter. And I am fine with this, these more clear and transparent rules, should have been a thing a long time ago. 

I think a lot of the "concerns" (well-founded or not) about these TOS changes, are an example of how people are going to complain about ANY change, no matter what.

 

[Vanity Fair]

2 hours ago, Madi Melodious said:

Hi there.  It's not something that is available on the marketplace and I never intend to sell it. It is something I wanted to get out to my community, while it still lasts, to protect them.    You can look me up in world and I'll be more than happy to talk to you about it. 

You could make it available on the SL Marketplace as a free item, which would save you from having to respond to each person in world.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder if anyone is willing to proclaim themselves as an "expert" in this topic, so we can get THEIR perspective?

For examples: How are their community and friends impacted by the changes in TOS?  How do they feel about being "forced" to be an adult to perform adult activities - just to follow the changes in TOS?  What is it like being judged by everyone, even more so now with the changes in TOS?

Plenty of child avatars have expressed themselves in this thread, but this forum is too busy playing the usual games and throwing mud.

[Tommy Linden]

Hello Again,

I just want to let everyone know that we have been making some updates to the FAQ originally posted. In addition, please don't take the silence from us in the thread to mean we are not still reading all of the feedback. We are still listening and working to answer more questions.

Quick link again to the FAQ for those who might need it (or if you are like me, to just save you the time of trying to find it in your sea of open tabs). https://lindenlab.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/31000173097-child-avatar-faq

[Alwin Alcott]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I wonder if anyone is willing to proclaim themselves as an "expert"

let's gang up with @Zalificent Corvinus ... sounds like a good trio for that function  

[Vanity Fair]

1 hour ago, Madi Melodious said:

I posted it to the marketplace as a free item.  I've never set up a marketplace listing so I just did the basic.

Second Life Marketplace - Panic button

Awesome, thank you so much! I will provide a link to the SL Marketplace listing when I write up my editorial blogpost.

Edited May 3 by Vanity Fair

[Persephone Emerald]

Not having caught up with the last 10 pages yet, here's my take now on the child skin issue.

Linden Lab cannot stop people from using system avatars, so they can't stop people from using whichever skins or BOM layers they wish on a child avatar that does not use a mesh body. They also can't stop people from using any current mesh bodies that are BOM compatible. I don't think they will delete existing mesh bodies that can present as children, because they won't want to break that much content and won't want to reverse themselves about using onion layers vs. BOM.

They can rule that going forward mesh bodies and skins marketed for child avatars must have no genitalia or must have a covering such as a diaper, underpants or bikini bottom as part of the skin. They could also rule that mesh bodies made for child avatars may not be BOM compatible. 

I see no reason for bodies and skins made for child avatars to not have a normal chest with child nipples. A young child without a shirt should not be viewed as a sex object by any normal and reasonable person.

Teen skins might need to cover nipples, but I personally take exception to requiring "female" nipples to be covered when "male" nipples are not required to be covered. There's also that whole intersex and transgender territory that makes a hard distinction between male and female nipples rather silly, imo.

[Madi Melodious]

Just now, MissSweetViolet said:

I agree, it is kind of going back at forth at this point [though I'll probably continue anyway, even though I really shouldn't x.x]. This is kind of why I wish the Lindens would jump in and answer questions like they said they would yesterday, that might help a lot.

This is what I'm wanting to hear about.  From the feed back I've been getting most child avatars are fine with most of with the new changes.   Staying out of adult sim, that has been a unwritten rule for years.  Nothing lost there.  The prohibition on nudity, we can live with that, the ken and barbie look all around.  It is the modesty requirement that breaks the deal for a lot.  That breaks years worth of content and simply makes no sense when said parts can be completely alphaed out or in my case removed.  

[Starberry Passion]

12 minutes ago, Bimbo Mommy said:

I think unfortunately, tweenster is one of the kid mesh bodies likely to be ousted from the grid altogether from the convo i have seen on facebook about it unless they update. I think your best bet is youth or tweeneedoo for alternatives to swap to. but at least for skins, they need to explain what they expect from skin creators before just demanding people make a major change like that in like what, less than 2mo? 

Is the creator of Tweenster on Second life still? if they aren't then it might be banned, since it won't get an update. Also, love your avatar if that's your avatar in your pfp.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Plenty of child avatars have expressed themselves in this thread, but this forum is too busy playing the usual games and throwing mud.

Yes, I did see complaints about difficulties with child avatars shopping (due to needing to test furniture that happens to be in adult stores), and about not being able to go to "family-friendly nude beaches".

But, I did not see anything from child avatars (unless I missed it) that - for example - now they cannot be in the same room as mommy and daddy sometimes, or that now they have to move off of their home region altogether. 

Another example: "My family lives at a medieval RP private region, where everyone sleeps in one big room. Now I have to get my own room!" (Actually, I assume the RP private region would have to be changed to non-Adult and not allow Adult activities in order to allow the children there.)

Not many complaints about use-cases for "the reasons these rules are actually changing" - keep "child avatars" away from "adult situations", etc.