Can a creator demand this?

[SwagART]

Hi,

 

So, my partner bought a product via the marketplace that ended up looking nothing like it was portrayed to be. (there was no option for a demo so she took a chance) As it wasn't as advertised she left a negative review. This came after the creator was rude to her inworld when she contacted them about the product. 

The negative review was removed (because she said in it the creator was rude) but another review for another product was left. Now the creator is demanding she removes her other negative review or she will report her?

It seems SL is siding with the creator even though my partner is being harassed by the creator. She is on the verge of quitting SL completely because of it all.

What's the point of having the option to review products if negative ones can be removed if the creator feels upset about it? How do you even deal with this?

It's infuriating to say the least.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

Rather than write a review talking about the seller's attitude issues. Just write one describing the flaws in the product.

 

[Chic Aeon]

Creators cannot DEMAND anything. They can report the review that the want removed. They have to follow rules about why it should be removed also. IF LL believes the review is against the rules then they will remove it.  LL is not going to cancel your account over a review :D.   

 

I suggest listing the things that were not to your liking in list form being clear and precise.   AND REMEMBER that if you haven't seen a product you are taking a risk.  So part of the issue IS on you --- and you stated that :D.  I seldom buy anything without seeing it. You can always write to the creator BEFORE buying and ask to see a demo.  Better plan.  

[Qie Niangao]

Just mute the merchant and get on with Second Life. That merchant making a "report" is like peeing in black pants: they'd get a warm feeling but nobody notices—and they know that perfectly well but think they can use the threat to extort a change of review. 

Ideally your partner will learn that Marketplace is mostly a den of thieves and move on to dealing with real creators at real shops and events. Leaving Marketplace reviews is mostly a fool's errand (especially if the merchant has no in-world store).

[Katherine Heartsong]

I think you're not going to have any luck here, OP. Just mute the merchant and get on with SL. But as others have pointed out, and I can not stress this enough ...

DEMO EVERYTHING.

If you can't demo a piece of clothing DO NOT BUY IT. I wasted a lot of Lindens learning this lesson. And that goes for even your very favourite clothing stores.

I have about 12 clothing stores that I just love the fashions from, but even with these amazing creators, if it doesn't have a demo I do not buy. Just a few days ago one of those fave stores released two new dresses in the style/look I love. thankfully, I demoed both and wound up buying neither one. What looks good in an advertisement or on the MP does not necessarily translate to a good look on your body. One outfit (open silk blouse, pencil skirt) was too bloused at the bottom where it tucked into the skirt and just looked far puffier on me than the ad suggested.

DEMO EVERYTHING.

Edited February 24 by Katherine Heartsong

[Sid Nagy]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Ideally your partner will learn that Marketplace is mostly a den of thieves

Thanks a lot pal.
You are painting with an even broader brush here than Bob Ross ever used for his paintings.

There are thousands of hard working and well willing merchants on the marketplace you are trying to sweep on the same pile right here.

The con artists on the MP are a very small group. All the others deserve to be treated better.
Merchants in general aren't the scumbags of SL.
Just saying.

Edited February 24 by Sid Nagy
Hey it is Saturday: my edit hobby day. 🍺

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Ideally your partner will learn that Marketplace is mostly a den of thieves and move on to dealing with real creators at real shops and events.

Just to echo Sid's sentiment for a moment, the marketplace is actually the primary venue for many, many furry designers - very real creators who perhaps don't have the large inventory to justify maintaining an in-world shop. If you wear furry or even fantasy mods/heads/skins/etc. at all, you're likely going to have to get very comfy navigating the MP and its quirks.

It's also the most reliable place to get retired SLUV skins, makeup, hairbases, and tattoos that are no longer sold in-world. This is big for anyone who isn't using Evo X (like Genus and older Catwa users, specialty/fantasy head users, etc.).

Lastly - full-perm mesh items are far, far easier to purchase via the MP. It'd take me a million years shopping in-world to find enough full-perm food, clutter, and home decor to use to make my worn accessories and custom home decor.

More on topic, for the OP - if there's no demo and you aren't already familiar with a creator's work, it's a big risk. I have never personally run into issues and I buy a lot without demos (many furry and costume mods and items come without, and of course, things like poses/animations), but it's widely known that you're taking a big risk doing that. Only spend what you're comfortable losing in a worst case scenario.

[Arielle Popstar]

16 hours ago, SwagART said:

Hi,

 

So, my partner bought a product via the marketplace that ended up looking nothing like it was portrayed to be. (there was no option for a demo so she took a chance) As it wasn't as advertised she left a negative review. This came after the creator was rude to her inworld when she contacted them about the product. 

The negative review was removed (because she said in it the creator was rude) but another review for another product was left. Now the creator is demanding she removes her other negative review or she will report her?

It seems SL is siding with the creator even though my partner is being harassed by the creator. She is on the verge of quitting SL completely because of it all.

What's the point of having the option to review products if negative ones can be removed if the creator feels upset about it? How do you even deal with this?

It's infuriating to say the least.

It is a bit of a rip off and I don't understand why the Lab is so finicky about some things that go on here but not about fraud in the MarketPlace. It does happen enough and though I sucked up the losses I've experienced, they left enough of a bad taste in my mouth that I do most of my shopping off of other avatars that are wearing the things I'm interested in. So even if no demo, at least I've seen it fit on someone else.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

The con artists on the MP are a very small group. 

Maybe in some categories but overall… I think that group far exceeds "very small". On the other hand, I'm happy to say I've had pretty consistently pleasant experiences with creators who have Marketplace presences in addition to in-world stores, but I absolutely cannot say the same of those who have only Marketplace stores. Maybe there aren't as many of the Marketplace-only merchants as I experience because I never actually buy from Marketplace if I can find the item at the creator's in-world store (why give the Lab a commission for an overall miserable shopping experience?) so my actual Marketplace purchases are disproportionately those who offer no choice.

I don't have experience with furry wares so that might be an exception, but I've had quite disappointing results with full perm items bought on Marketplace and now avoid it if there's any practical alternative. Even with in-world stores it's not enough to only have such items in vendors without being able to rez a copy and judge its LOD behavior directly, so full-perm mesh… maybe there are some reputable suppliers I haven't found, but just tick the full perm boxes, do a search, and see what you get. It won't be pretty.

[MissSweetViolet]

19 hours ago, SwagART said:

Hi,

 

So, my partner bought a product via the marketplace that ended up looking nothing like it was portrayed to be. (there was no option for a demo so she took a chance) As it wasn't as advertised she left a negative review. This came after the creator was rude to her inworld when she contacted them about the product. 

The negative review was removed (because she said in it the creator was rude) but another review for another product was left. Now the creator is demanding she removes her other negative review or she will report her?

It seems SL is siding with the creator even though my partner is being harassed by the creator. She is on the verge of quitting SL completely because of it all.

What's the point of having the option to review products if negative ones can be removed if the creator feels upset about it? How do you even deal with this?

It's infuriating to say the least.

Most of my MP purchases have been great, but I did run into a creator once who was quite rude, I had left a review [which wasn't even that bad, 3 star if I remember right], stating how the product was nice, but the texture for the table [which was inside the table for some reason] was no copy, and I wasn't even rude here, just stated what I found on receiving said product. She came back a bit later and just chewed me out for not contacting her first since the texture being no copy was a mistake [and I mean like full on insulting me and being flat out rude], I told her I had a right to leave the review I felt fit [ after being completely screamed at, without even one attempt to calmly explain herself or try to be nice, hostile right from the beginning]. Now I would have changed that review to state is was a mistake, even though the way she treated me didn't exactly motivate to, but she didn't even give me a chance to, deleting said product before I could even try to.

So, while most creators I've bought from have been quite pleasant when I've interacted with them, there are some not so nice ones out there. As for threatening to report, I've never had anyone try to threaten me on the MP, but unless the review violated something, I can't imagine getting banned over it.

I do agree that unless something violated something in the ToS [and I don't know what all your partner put in her review to judge one way or the other], negative reviews should not be removed, I have no idea on the legality of it though, and Googling provided mixed messages [which is sad but doesn't surprise me].

[Ceka Cianci]

21 hours ago, SwagART said:

Hi,

 

So, my partner bought a product via the marketplace that ended up looking nothing like it was portrayed to be. (there was no option for a demo so she took a chance) As it wasn't as advertised she left a negative review. This came after the creator was rude to her inworld when she contacted them about the product. 

The negative review was removed (because she said in it the creator was rude) but another review for another product was left. Now the creator is demanding she removes her other negative review or she will report her?

It seems SL is siding with the creator even though my partner is being harassed by the creator. She is on the verge of quitting SL completely because of it all.

What's the point of having the option to review products if negative ones can be removed if the creator feels upset about it? How do you even deal with this?

It's infuriating to say the least.

It's all in how you word the reviews..

Rather than saying, The creator was rude, you can say something like, I was not happy with the customer service..

This way it doesn't actually pinpoint to any one person..

Because sometimes, The Creator, is not the seller..

It's always best to leave emotions out and use  our words rather than emotions.. This way the review has less chance of being taken down..

 

[Dorientje Woller]

Try to take a mental note about the seller or creator and take the approach I do in RL: you can screw me once over as we are all humans, but with a second attempt simply forget a third time because that's a pattern.

Edited February 24 by Dorientje Woller

[Paul Hexem]

10 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

creators who have Marketplace presences in addition to in-world stores

This, for me, is one of my standards as well. I keep a small parcel with store stuff on it just for demos and a backup.

Any merchant without an in world store is by default less invested at best.

[Raspberry Crystal]

3 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

This, for me, is one of my standards as well. I keep a small parcel with store stuff on it just for demos and a backup.

Any merchant without an in world store is by default less invested at best.

There are lots of outdated store links on marketplace unfortunately, and I always check the link to see if it really does lead to an inworld store.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

On 2/24/2024 at 12:14 AM, SwagART said:

As it wasn't as advertised she left a negative review.

How was it not as advertised? Things may not seem as advertised for several reasons:

1. What a product looks like depends on the environment setting.

2. The product picture was subject to severe post-processing in Photoshop.

3. The ad was not from an in-world snapshot, but rendered in 3D software.

4. Features were listed in the ad that were absent from the actual product.

If you are specific in your criticism and the criticism is obvious and justified, LL does not take the review down. However, if you are vague, or if it's technically out of the hands of the creator, like in point 1, LL might just take it away. The creator is not entirely absolved in case of #1, though. They may just anticipate their product at least looking decent under crappy EEP circumstances. I fear, this will become more of an issue with PBR, though.

Edited February 25 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

How was it not as advertised? Things may not seem as advertised for several reasons:

1. What a product looks like depends on the environment setting.

2. The product picture was subject to severe post-processing in Photoshop.

3. The ad was not from an in-world snapshot, but rendered in 3D software.

4. Features were listed in the ad that were absent from the actual product.

If you are specific in your criticism and the criticism is obvious and justified, LL does not take the review down. However, if you are vague, or if it's technically out of the hands of the creator, like in point 1, LL might just take it away. The creator is not entirely absolved in case of #1, though. They may just anticipate their product at least looking decent under crappy EEP circumstances. I fear, this will become more of an issue with PBR, though.

DEMO, Demo, demo, DeMo, dEmO  ...........
They will get even more important in the near future.

[Persephone Emerald]

17 hours ago, MissSweetViolet said:

Most of my MP purchases have been great, but I did run into a creator once who was quite rude, I had left a review [which wasn't even that bad, 3 star if I remember right], stating how the product was nice, but the texture for the table [which was inside the table for some reason] was no copy, and I wasn't even rude here, just stated what I found on receiving said product. She came back a bit later and just chewed me out for not contacting her first since the texture being no copy was a mistake [and I mean like full on insulting me and being flat out rude], I told her I had a right to leave the review I felt fit [ after being completely screamed at, without even one attempt to calmly explain herself or try to be nice, hostile right from the beginning]. Now I would have changed that review to state is was a mistake, even though the way she treated me didn't exactly motivate to, but she didn't even give me a chance to, deleting said product before I could even try to.

So, while most creators I've bought from have been quite pleasant when I've interacted with them, there are some not so nice ones out there. As for threatening to report, I've never had anyone try to threaten me on the MP, but unless the review violated something, I can't imagine getting banned over it.

I do agree that unless something violated something in the ToS [and I don't know what all your partner put in her review to judge one way or the other], negative reviews should not be removed, I have no idea on the legality of it though, and Googling provided mixed messages [which is sad but doesn't surprise me].

I think it's helpful to remember that most SL creators may not have RL experience in sales, marketing or customer service. Some might not have good people skills or might have emotional issues.

I've seen a couple inworld creators lash out at their customers in their store group in very unprofessional and caustic ways. Both ended up closing their stores.

They may feel frustrated by poor reviews, and rather than taking them as helpful guidance, view criticizing customers as over-entitled or over-critical. There's not much you can do to calm down the creator at this point, but a gently worded note or IM to them before leaving a bad review can usually prevent a bad reaction to a negative review. 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

Sometimes people do not fully read the description and expect something to work on a specific body and it doesn’t and they leave a bad review.. 

I had this happen to a nail polish item I sell for 1L 

I just left a comment stating it’s only for such and such body and you could have contacted me then added please read description.  I left the review. I sell quite a few of them and she was the only one who left a neg review 

 

so even if someone leaves a neg review the seller can comment and explain things in a polite way and personally if I see comments from sellers that explain the situation. (Not blaming or aggressively attacking buyer) then I just overlook that neg review. 
 

[Ceka Cianci]

Honestly, a nice calm and respectful note card can go a long way I feel..

Out of all my years in SL, I can honestly say, I cannot remember having a bad interaction with any creator that I have contacted, when a transaction has gone wrong in some way.. Either me accidentally  re-buying the same item or something malfunctioning with the product or vendor and so on..

In fact just about every time I have sent them a note card, they had thanked  me for responding in such a polite manner as if it was a relief to see.. Many have ended up on my friends list after they respond or we ended up talking for an hour or more.. They've even at times given me my money back or a big discount for being inconvenienced from the purches or even given me things that haven't came out yet..

It makes me think, they must get so many frustrating note cards when things go wrong, just from how much they are thanking me for how I responded.. I've heard so many say, things on the line of, It's a nice breath of fresh air..

This is one that I recently sent last month when there was a hud that wasn't responding on a set of booties I had bought.. I'll take out any information that  needs taken out like history and  store name and things like that and just put bla bla..

She ended up giving me giving me 600.00 back on a 799.00 purchase..

//////"Hi, My name is Ceka Cianci.. I was at the Dubai event today and purchased the - Bla bla booties  FATPACK (packed)

I put the booties on and then went to use the booties fatpack hud  and it won't let me do anything..
I keep getting this message..
[14:04:48] Bla bla Booties: This object not genuie, you need to lisance activation..

The sock color hud works fine, it's just the bla bla  booties  fatpack hud that is giving me this error..
I tried to get a new one from Redeliver and it is doing the same thing with that hud as well..

If you could send me a working  Hud when you get the time i would be grateful.
 It's not a rush  or anything. I thought you should know  before it happens to others.. Thank you

I'll put my transaction information below also to make things a little easier..

2024-01-20 13:23:42    Bla bla Ceka's transaction information Bla Bla Booties FATPACK     L$799

You have a really great day .
Ceka Cianci ❤️ "//////

 

This one was from a puppy I bought from an event..We ended up talking for a couple of hours..

////"Hi, My name is Ceka Cianci,
I had a purchased the BLA BLA Puppy Set ❤️ from the BLA BLA event yesterday and went to unpack it today and seen that it isn't in my inventory..
It may have been lag or something.. hehehe

I went back to the event to see if there was a redeliver there and didn't see one. So I tried the one in the main store.. It shows that it can't find  the BLA BLA Puppy Set ❤️ and to contact you..

I've put my transaction history information just below..

2023-05-19 23:15:04    BLA BLA Ceka's Transaction information Puppy Set ❤️ L$299

I have to say, I don't usually get pets a lot, but It looks like such an adorable  puppy that those eyes just made me have to get it.. hehehe

I'm not in any hurry and see you are only on a couple times a week, which I'm the same  as well..
Just when you can if you could send me that adorable little puppy, I would be so grateful.. I can't wait to give it a big hug and squeeze.. hehehe

Thank you  and I hope you are having a really great dayl..
Ceka Cianci ❤️ "//////

 

I have more of these that I could put up and  could put up the responses, but I don't want to be putting up other peoples conversations without asking them first.. I really don't want to bother them with that..

My advice to anyone is, get past that first frustrating moments of something going wrong and take a deep breath and calm yourself and maybe type out what you are feeling first and then delete it..

Then calmly type up something without the frustration in it and maybe more something  of how you were drawn to it and  your intentions of use of their product or something how you were excited in seeing it..Something positive  about it before you bought it..  I know it's frustrating when something isn't right or goes wrong, that's pretty natural for all of us.. But using that frustration in response has more chance of having  not such good interactions..

A little honey goes a long way..❤️

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Honestly, a nice calm and respectful note card can go a long way I feel..

Out of all my years in SL, I can honestly say, I cannot remember having a bad interaction with any creator that I have contacted, when a transaction has gone wrong in some way.. Either me accidentally  re-buying the same item or something malfunctioning with the product or vendor and so on..

In fact just about every time I have sent them a note card, they had thanked  me for responding in such a polite manner as if it was a relief to see.. Many have ended up on my friends list after they respond or we ended up talking for an hour or more.. They've even at times given me my money back or a big discount for being inconvenienced from the purches or even given me things that haven't came out yet..

It makes me think, they must get so many frustrating note cards when things go wrong, just from how much they are thanking me for how I responded.. I've heard so many say, things on the line of, It's a nice breath of fresh air..

This is one that I recently sent last month when there was a hud that wasn't responding on a set of booties I had bought.. I'll take out any information that  needs taken out like history and  store name and things like that and just put bla bla..

She ended up giving me giving me 600.00 back on a 799.00 purchase..

//////"Hi, My name is Ceka Cianci.. I was at the Dubai event today and purchased the - Bla bla booties  FATPACK (packed)

I put the booties on and then went to use the booties fatpack hud  and it won't let me do anything..
I keep getting this message..
[14:04:48] Bla bla Booties: This object not genuie, you need to lisance activation..

The sock color hud works fine, it's just the bla bla  booties  fatpack hud that is giving me this error..
I tried to get a new one from Redeliver and it is doing the same thing with that hud as well..

If you could send me a working  Hud when you get the time i would be grateful.
 It's not a rush  or anything. I thought you should know  before it happens to others.. Thank you

I'll put my transaction information below also to make things a little easier..

2024-01-20 13:23:42    Bla bla Ceka's transaction information Bla Bla Booties FATPACK     L$799

You have a really great day .
Ceka Cianci ❤️ "//////

 

This one was from a puppy I bought from an event..We ended up talking for a couple of hours..

////"Hi, My name is Ceka Cianci,
I had a purchased the BLA BLA Puppy Set ❤️ from the BLA BLA event yesterday and went to unpack it today and seen that it isn't in my inventory..
It may have been lag or something.. hehehe

I went back to the event to see if there was a redeliver there and didn't see one. So I tried the one in the main store.. It shows that it can't find  the BLA BLA Puppy Set ❤️ and to contact you..

I've put my transaction history information just below..

2023-05-19 23:15:04    BLA BLA Ceka's Transaction information Puppy Set ❤️ L$299

I have to say, I don't usually get pets a lot, but It looks like such an adorable  puppy that those eyes just made me have to get it.. hehehe

I'm not in any hurry and see you are only on a couple times a week, which I'm the same  as well..
Just when you can if you could send me that adorable little puppy, I would be so grateful.. I can't wait to give it a big hug and squeeze.. hehehe

Thank you  and I hope you are having a really great dayl..
Ceka Cianci ❤️ "//////

 

I have more of these that I could put up and  could put up the responses, but I don't want to be putting up other peoples conversations without asking them first.. I really don't want to bother them with that..

My advice to anyone is, get past that first frustrating moments of something going wrong and take a deep breath and calm yourself and maybe type out what you are feeling first and then delete it..

Then calmly type up something without the frustration in it and maybe more something  of how you were drawn to it and  your intentions of use of their product or something how you were excited in seeing it..Something positive  about it before you bought it..  I know it's frustrating when something isn't right or goes wrong, that's pretty natural for all of us.. But using that frustration in response has more chance of having  not such good interactions..

A little honey goes a long way..❤️

This has been my experience as well.  Tried the demo of a dress from a merchant I often buy from.  It included an alpha layer which I prefer over auto alphas.  There was one little area that was incorrect, showing part of my hip area.  I sent a nice note with a picture attached of the area.   He responded with the new alpha AND the fatpack of the dress.  I mentioned that I had only tried the demo and hadn't purchased it yet, can I please pay you for it.  He said, "No and thank you for bringing the issue to my attention."

Only one time do I recall a merchant not fixing something that I brought to their attention.  I won't buy from them again.

[MissSweetViolet]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I think it's helpful to remember that most SL creators may not have RL experience in sales, marketing or customer service. Some might not have good people skills or might have emotional issues.

I've seen a couple inworld creators lash out at their customers in their store group in very unprofessional and caustic ways. Both ended up closing their stores.

They may feel frustrated by poor reviews, and rather than taking them as helpful guidance, view criticizing customers as over-entitled or over-critical. There's not much you can do to calm down the creator at this point, but a gently worded note or IM to them before leaving a bad review can usually prevent a bad reaction to a negative review. 

Agreed, and in hind sight I probably should have. I usually do, but at the time I didn't realize that the texture in the table being no copy wasn't intended since I'm come across it before intentionally [till I got the IM]. So it didn't really occur to me in the moment that it was something to contact her over. The table it's self was as advertised. But I do agree I should have done so. But I do wish she could have expressed herself in a nicer way instead of screaming at me and calling my own products "the ugliest around", which to be fair, I'm just starting, so I'm well aware I'm no top of the line designer, but the interaction was enough to stop me from shopping at her store again.

Edited February 25 by MissSweetViolet
Spelling corrections.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

5 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

DEMO, Demo, demo, DeMo, dEmO  ...........
They will get even more important in the near future. [because of PBR]

DEMO + "Please don't look at this demo on a plywood sky platform with a midday EEP because it will look ****y."

 

[Persephone Emerald]

16 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

But I do wish she could have expressed herself in a nicer way instead of screaming at me and calling my own products "the ugliest around"....

😳 Wow!

I've experience many kind and generous people in SL. I don't think I've ever had a bad reaction after sending a creator a note about a problem with their product or vendor. Yet, there are still some touchy, bad tempered people in SL. I hope you never run into another one like that merchant. 

For another story about the positive effect of polite notecards and patience: I tried to buy the Belleza Jake body for my guy alt a few years ago, but I accidentally hit the Gift option and basically sent it to no one. After a couple unanswered notecards, the owner eventually got back to me with an apology, sent my guy the body, and gave me back half the purchase price (before it was on sale for half price).

[Pamela Galli]

 

[MissSweetViolet]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

😳 Wow!

I've experience many kind and generous people in SL. I don't think I've ever had a bad reaction after sending a creator a note about a problem with their product or vendor. Yet, there are still some touchy, bad tempered people in SL. I hope you never run into another one like that merchant. 

For another story about the positive effect of polite notecards and patience: I tried to buy the Belleza Jake body for my guy alt a few years ago, but I accidentally hit the Gift option and basically sent it to no one. After a couple unanswered notecards, the owner eventually got back to me with an apology, sent my guy the body, and gave me back half the purchase price (before it was on sale for half price).

Fortunately that is the only experience like that I've had like that on the MP, plus one inworld, so just two, the vast majority of creators I've interacted with have been excellent.