Tipping Etiquette

[Arwyn Quandry]

Trying not to stray too fast into Adult-rated discussion here, but I've heard someone say that they were booted from an adult venue in SL for not tipping enough on the dancers there. I've also heard tell of clubs where the hosts or other personnel wear real world items which respond to tip jars. I've never gone to one of these places myself and don't really want to, but is there a tipping etiquette there which differs from standard club events? 

[Seicher Rae]

Like many have said, I don't think there are any hard and fast rules. Like you, I enjoy my SL music. I will almost always pay the venue, but that isn't 100%. There's one club I practically live at and I tip the DJs every time, sometimes quite heftily, while I forget to pay the venue (they nearly hide the vendor for doing that, which I kinda like).  And like you and others have said, I rarely tip hostess/host. I don't think it is worth my $L100 because someone said, "Hi, Seicher" when I TP'd in, ya know? But some of them DO work and are useful, besides just pushing for Linden Love (anyone who does that decidedly does NOT get tipped by me, barf!).  Being partnered to a SL live musician, I've gained a new appreciation for a good hostess, and while I don't tip HIM weekly (ever) I do tip them weekly, along with the venues.

Like so many things in SL and life in general, "It depends."

[MissSweetViolet]

9 hours ago, Anna Nova said:

I am not American, and don't understand tipping.  I understand 'fly-tipping'  which is dumping your rubbish (Amer: garbage) on someones front-lawn...

My other issue is that I go to some clubs for the chat, and keep the sound on mute as I can't stand most of what everyone else calls music.

But sometimes, if the chat is good, I put a few L$100s in the venue tip box.  Then, sometimes, I get this effusive 'thank you' in chat, which I hate!

Like I say: I am not American, and don't understand tipping.....

Your not alone! I am American and don't understand our stupid tipping culture. While I get that many only work off tips, and I do tip knowing that, it would much better if the whole system was done away with and people payed an actual paycheck like it should be. I never have understood why it should fall on the consumer to pay a waiter/waitress/etc for something they should rightfully get a paycheck for. As for SL, I think it's bit different, I usually try to tip something, even if it's only 10L, but whether I do or not largely depends on if I have money for linden or not, which varies month to month, since real life has to come first.

[Rowan Amore]

41 minutes ago, Arwyn Quandry said:

Trying not to stray too fast into Adult-rated discussion here, but I've heard someone say that they were booted from an adult venue in SL for not tipping enough on the dancers there. I've also heard tell of clubs where the hosts or other personnel wear real world items which respond to tip jars. I've never gone to one of these places myself and don't really want to, but is there a tipping etiquette there which differs from standard club events? 

I've never seen a minimum required for dancers, DJs or hosts.  I have seen minimums required for AFK type places.  If you keep trying to engage with an AFK bot without paying the minimum amount, it might boot you.  I haven't tested that but there are usually signs somewhere with the pay requirements.

[Persephone Emerald]

I have a friend who works very hard as a host to get a few dollars worth of tips, which she then uses to support her SL spending. She writes and sends out notices for the event probably a couple hours before it, an hour before, half an hour before, then 15 to 10 minutes before, when the event starts, and halfway through a 2 hour set. She spends at least an hour before the event getting her avatar dressed, sometimes in theme or to match her Dj.

She greets people coming in and keeps the chat going in local, while also answering questions and chatting in IM in several windows. She hosts sets that might be late at night or early in the morning for her. She takes her job seriously and gives it her whole focus when she's working, while also making it seem effortless and fun to the club patrons.

It's hard to fathom how hard she works for those few lindens in tips, but she enjoys the music, the social aspect and having a job in her RL retirement years. 

[Alwin Alcott]

employees have a job to do, and if they do it right they'll get tips.
There are also people doing less than a good job, in special annoying gesturbating, beg every minute for lnden love a.s.o .. those i tip with a mute.

[Silent Mistwalker]

45 minutes ago, MissSweetViolet said:

Your not alone! I am American and don't understand our stupid tipping culture. While I get that many only work off tips, and I do tip knowing that, it would much better if the whole system was done away with and people payed an actual paycheck like it should be. I never have understood why it should fall on the consumer to pay a waiter/waitress/etc for something they should rightfully get a paycheck for. As for SL, I think it's bit different, I usually try to tip something, even if it's only 10L, but whether I do or not largely depends on if I have money for linden or not, which varies month to month, since real life has to come first.

The reason those wages are so low is because in the US, everything from farming to animal husbandry to 5-star restaurants falls under the Department of Agriculture (federal).

Follow the money.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

[Persephone Emerald]

24 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

The reason those wages are so low is because in the US, everything from farming to animal husbandry to 5-star restaurants falls under the Department of Agriculture (federal).

Follow the money.

I'd also add that we as a society value some people more than we value other people, not based on how hard they work or how much they do for us, but because we think they're smarter, more worthy, or more like the kind of people we'd like to be. 

A doctor or lawyer or politician doesn't have to rely on tips, but the people who serve us food or clean our hotel room do. It's been shown that historically middle class Americans liked feeling like they have a servant to wait on them, without actually having to pay a servant's wages. This is why porters, waiters, maids, store clerks, and drivers have had their wages kept low, so they would have to smile, act servile, and pretend like "the customer is always right" in order to make a living wage.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/22/980047710/the-land-of-the-fee

Edited August 24, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

Tipping makes sense for certain types of Second Life venues, because then the employees are paid based on pleasing the customer instead of "showing up". For other roles such as "Customer Service", a salary makes more sense.

[Obic Malaprop]

I've hosted on and off in SL for a long time (even before it was even really a term). Different venues are different, and I've noticed different 'genres' have very different tipping "cultures". Some DJs will tip out their hosts, many will not, some of the better venues will "seed the tipjars" for DJs and hosts if the tips aren't very high to ensure their performers are getting at least something. Some hosts really are amazing at creatign fun and engaging atmospheres, steering conversation away from problematic topics, or de-escalating without anyone being the wiser.. and some are just... not that   But the same is true of DJs, or club "owners/managers". 

But tipping should NEVER feel like an obligation (not speaking of Adult places, where "tip" is just a codeword for an exchange of services). I think we all get it that different folk have different budgets. But a place that tries to guilt me into tipping, or make it seem like I'm doing something wrong by not tipping, isn't a place I'm going to frequent. 

As for me, since I spend a lot of time at clubs, if I'm having a good time, I'll tip 100L per hour of enjoyment, sometimes that's all to the host, or all to the DJ, but usually spread between them.* If It's a club I frequest the club will get a donation every couple of days for a superfun event, or something special. If the host is just a gesturebater, yea, you're not getting anything, but same for an afk DJ who just pops in their playlist on random. If I'm having a "great time" I'll tip more, and if it was just so-so music, and the host isn't really engaging then no tip. /shrug that's just what works for me.

But all this means is there is no one-size fits all, to each their own.

 

*I do something similar to a beautiful spot I take photos at, or spend hours wandering around, etc. 100L an hour works for my budget as a rule of thumb for my personal situation. 

[Orwar]

59 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

She writes and sends out notices for the event probably a couple hours before it, an hour before, half an hour before, then 15 to 10 minutes before, when the event starts, and halfway through a 2 hour set.

   That'd be a venue group I'd drop immediately (or block notices, if it's somehow 'useful' to be in the group).

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

She spends at least an hour before the event getting her avatar dressed

   As do many of the patrons. Getting dressed in SL can be a long process - can't say I think anyone specifically deserves being compensated for bothering to put clothes on ..

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It's hard to fathom how hard she works for those few lindens in tips

   Not really. The administrative part of being a host or hostess may seem daunting, but if you've done it a few times it's pretty routine. And, there's plenty of venues that dispense of them completely, putting it on the DJ to send their own notices (several seconds of work, every time!), and honestly I think it's better if the DJ is the one who engages with the crowd than someone awkwardly dancing next to them like a puppet. Sure, you'll be tabbed out part of the time to mess with your DJ program and rearrange and add to the playlist, or be momentarily unavailable if you're doing a voice-over - but just set your radar to tell you when new people enter the place and you can catch up easily. I personally never much enjoyed being pinged by name the second I plonk down somewhere, let me at least render in and make it inside of the club before you start shouting at me. 

   A large chunk of a host's 'work' can be completely automated, just put a group joiner in the club, and don't camouflage the dance balls so that you'll need someone to explain which doodad you have to click to dance. And if someone is disrupting and needs to be ejected, that's two button clicks away - and some venues don't even put that on the host but expect the host to get a hold of a manager who may or may not be around because you couldn't be trusting a lowly host with that sort of authority. 

   Meanwhile the DJ has to (or should) prepare 2 hours of a musical experience (although a lot of 'DJs' seem to think that making one or two playlists is enough for their entire career). Making a good set is so much more than just tossing a few songs you like or know to be popular into a playlist, it's akin to arranging an album - you need to consider the tempo, variety, and style; half an hour of rock anthems pushing everything to the peak will just tire people out and too many slow tracks in a row will put people to sleep - and you can't switch from highest high to lowest low and back again on repeat as that will just create an awkward rhythm, the songs should compliment each other and carry over smoothly (or be made to carry over smoothly, there's more tools than the play button, you know!). So if anyone should be compensated for the work the patrons might not immediately recognise, it's them.

[AmeliaJ08]

22 hours ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I tip if they are friendly and can keep local chat going

This is it exactly and what I have always assumed their role is: to keep chat going.

 

Otherwise they're no different to any other person in there aside from the DJ. Many don't seem to do this though and I'm not tipping someone who merely keeps an eye on radar and says "hi X" to everyone that comes in, there needs to be something more than that.

It is of course hard since SL is notorious for people not talking in local, I certainly don't fancy the job of trying to get them out of IM's...

 

[Rat Luv]

I would love to see a 'Hosts/Hostesses Confidential' thread 😉 You get some bonkers IMs from guests sometimes...and have seen some crazy drama over tipjars  But I don't think there's enough hosts/ex-hosts here to get it going  

3 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I KNEW you were going to do this 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rat Luv said:

I would love to see a 'Hosts/Hostesses Confidential' thread 😉 You get some bonkers IMs from guests sometimes...and have seen some crazy drama over tipjars  But I don't think there's enough hosts/ex-hosts here to get it going  

I KNEW you were going to do this 

I don't remember ever going "cow tipping", but I do remember tripping in cow fields..

[Rat Luv]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I don't remember ever going "cow tipping", but I do remember tripping in cow fields..

I do remember hearing that cow fields have lots of magic 🍄s...!

There is also a weird thing you can do with a chicken where you hold it an angle and it goes into a trance and plays dead...🐔

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It's hard to fathom how hard she works for those few lindens in tips,

I am reminded of a bagger at my local Publix who always says, "I work hard for the money!" 

He's learning disabled, and very nice and kind.

He is quoting the Donna Summer song, but I don't think he knows what "She works hard for the money" is really about..

 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

There is also a weird thing you can do with a chicken where you hold it an angle and it goes into a trance and plays dead...🐔

If only this worked with men!

[Rat Luv]

Actually...I think you all should tip hosts MORE 💰😎 

By the way, there IS a secret host union, and I've sent them this thread...and none of you who said you'd tip the DJ more will ever win on the contest board again ✊😮

[Crim Mip]

The problem is there just aren't many hosts/hostesses who are good at the job. I DJ and given the option, prefer to work without one. They are supposed to greet newcomers and keep a conversation flowing. Most of them just say high, and occasionally spam a reminder to tip the DJ. That's not worth a tip in my book. I'll tip the venue long before I tip a host.

The same goes for dance pole campers. I'm sorry, you sitting on a pose ball is not a reason anyone should tip you. If you put some effort into being interactive and pose doing a strip show or something, then yes, I'll tip, but that doesn't happen often.

[PheebyKatz]

If I have money, I tip. If not, I say something about how if I had money, I would tip, and everyone tells me not to feel guilty for it.

Working hard for small rewards is a bad habit many people get into. If you're going to work hard, make sure it pays what you want, or is fun enough that you simply enjoy it. Then anything you earn is a bonus.

I charge the U.S. dollar equivalent of 4 bucks for a mesh model I created. I almost felt guilty for pricing it that high. Then I remembered how much of my time I put into it, and the fact that I'll tip a DJ and host just as much sometimes, just for playing music I like, and cheering for me every time I get back from the bathroom.

It's all relative. I see nothing wrong with tipping someone a couple of bucks for showing up at an event and helping the DJ, even if it's just moral support. I do that myself for free, but then I'm just having fun and not being responsible for anything.

Edited August 25, 2023 by PheebyKatz

[Bree Giffen]

In the US, restaurants were exempt from minimum wage laws because the industry has a low profit margin. Restaurants paid their front-end staff below minimum wage but tipping was encouraged to let them earn additional pay by providing good service to the customers. This worked out well for the waiters and waitresses who could make a lot higher wages for their total wages + tips. Since most tips are in cash they could also forget to include some their tip income when reporting to the tax man. Other people who were normally tipped were bartenders, hair dressers, taxis, doormen, bag handlers and valets. Tipping seems to have grown these days due to the gig economy and the addition of tipping at electronic payment points. 

Tipping in SL seems to be more about actual payment to everyone involved in the entertainment from the venue owners, to hosts and DJs. There isn't any other source of income such as cover charges to enter the venue or selling drinks. I think the best idea would be a single tip jar set to pay out agreed percentages to everyone working.

[rasterscan]

8 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

I think the best idea would be a single tip jar set to pay out agreed percentages to everyone working.

Excellent idea, imho

[Spiffy Voxel]

My personal rule of thumb for tipping:

• Live bands & musicians: yes, if I'm enjoying their music, more so if they're entertaining when not playing music.
• DJs: yes, but more likely if they're engaging with the audience and not just playing tunes.
• Venues: usually, depending on how likely I am to visit again.
• Hosts: not usually, unless they're very entertaining.
• Dancers: not usually, unless they're keeping the public chat going, then maybe.

Good live musicians & DJs get my support, as do venues that provide quality entertainment.

[Amanda Crisp]

Speaking for myself only, when I DJ - I normally pay my Host a stipend in addition to whatever they pick up in tips. This is NOT from the venue, its the DJ paying the co-worker who makes me more effective.

A while back, I suffered a brain injury that impacted my fine-manipulation skills, so managing multiple simultaneous IMs while managing the stream is hard for a “slow typist”.

So, I run requests and guest inquiries through the Host as well as depending on them to manage whatever contest that may be running.

This works out to a fairly even division of labor and leaves neither DJ or Host with the kind of excessive “free time” to gesture-spam

The main venue I work at DOES have (non gesture) announcements for the Host to put out during events, but these are spaced out so as not to be obnoxious and are helpful to New Residents who may not know all the ins and outs of SL.

My opinion only, but the Hosts I work with really do earn anything they receive in tips 🙂

”Host” is often the very first “SL Entertainment” job many of us undertake when we come in world, so bear in mind that many of them are New Residents themselves - and still learning how to do that job without being annoying. Accompanying a small tip w some polite feedback in IM may well help them grow in the role and reduce some of the friction-points other posters to this thread have mentioned.