LaraX?

[Ayashe Ninetails]

19 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   It is possible they're re-doing the mesh, and thus have to re-do the weighting, but are able to make it close enough to be compatible at least with a majority of old mesh clothes for it.

   Buuuut we'll just have to wait and see. 

Yup, we're in wait and see status. Nobody knows 100% but there's speculation that old clothes *might* work, kinda sorta, but lots of stuff is getting reworked. Nothing's been officially confirmed in the primary Discord channel, other than the CSR saying there's no release date yet and it'll be done when it's done, so they're taking their time on that (good, IMO!).

[Gabriele Graves]

It's possible that this is also a PBR ready update.  I was expecting an upgrade at some point.  There have been hints about it from the Maitreya CSR on the Lara group.

[Gabriele Graves]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

If it's true, and if the new body won't be compatible with the older clothes, then for a while (and for some people for a really long while) it will make things rather complicated. I've got used to swapping bodies for a needed outfit a long while ago when I've got legacy, but still wanted to wear maitreya for some RP/fantasy outfits. And recently after getting a reborn I still swap to a few legacy based outfits for the same reason.

But I know some people just dread the thought of maintaining multiple bodies with different shapes, skins, keeping more than one clothing size and so on. So if it's entirely new body and not just a new UV and some tweaks here and there, then given lack of clothing for the new body at the start and for quite sometime it'll be the game of swapping for many many people.

It would surprise me if they redo the mesh and make it incompatible.  I would expect them to bring out a different new body called something else if there is a high degree of incompatibility.  Maitreya enjoys market dominance in no small part due to the amount of available items that work with it.  It would be folly to throw that away and start right back with nothing.  So it will either have compatibility options or it won't break compatibility in any major way at all in my opinion.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Claireschen Hesten]

Whatever this new and improved body update turns out to be given Lara being the most popular body I hope existing content still works I won't be the only one out there with a huge amount of clobber for Lara in their inventory 

[Marianne Little]

Update for free is the gamechanger.

Others who have tried that, made a new and very expensive body. No one, or very few bought it. But all Maitreya Lara owners will have that X body for free. 

Maitreya Lara is the biggest customer base in SL. Creators do not have to sit and wait, to see how many that will buy a new body.

This is why Lelutkas new UV became so popular. If Lelutka EvoX was released as a new 5000 L head, it would have flopped. I was sceptical myself. All my makeup and hairbases, useless? No, I can not change to EvoX... And then EvoX products started to fill the market. Even in sales like 25L Tuesdays. They looked good. Even better. Hairbases in particular.

So the shoulders on older clothing will probably not fit. That is unfortunate, but I can live with it, and buy new clothes. Some brands will maybe update their most popular clothes to include X. It is not sure we have to buy everything new.

Free updates is ❤️ but also good business.

[Persephone Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Update for free is the gamechanger.

Others who have tried that, made a new and very expensive body. No one, or very few bought it. But all Maitreya Lara owners will have that X body for free. 

Maitreya Lara is the biggest customer base in SL. Creators do not have to sit and wait, to see how many that will buy a new body.

This is why Lelutkas new UV became so popular. If Lelutka EvoX was released as a new 5000 L head, it would have flopped. I was sceptical myself. All my makeup and hairbases, useless? No, I can not change to EvoX... And then EvoX products started to fill the market. Even in sales like 25L Tuesdays. They looked good. Even better. Hairbases in particular.

So the shoulders on older clothing will probably not fit. That is unfortunate, but I can live with it, and buy new clothes. Some brands will maybe update their most popular clothes to include X. It is not sure we have to buy everything new.

Free updates is ❤️ but also good business.

If they include the most recent Lara body with the update too - both Lara and LaraX - then it's like the Lelutka EvoX head having both an Evolution setting and an EvoX setting. 

That's like telling customers, "Don't worry, you can still use all your old content on the older body,...but just give this new body a try. We think you'll like it."

[steeljane42]

3 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

This is why Lelutkas new UV became so popular. If Lelutka EvoX was released as a new 5000 L head, it would have flopped.

It was released as 3 new heads (for 4k each) and started to become popular right away, though. Many (most?) big/popular skin creators didn't release a single SLUV skin since the original EvoX's release. And at first Lelutka weren't sure if previous Evo heads would updated with all EvoX features, especially with the "hd skins". You can dig that information from various sources like flickr, discord, facebook etc. But given such great feedback they've decided to update previous heads completely.

So, yes, free updates of such scale are always great, especially for customer's loyality and brand's name, which will eventually bring in profit as well. But if the product is great it's not really required. In fact if the product is half decent and also has a proper promotion behind it, then even previous awful reputation like the ex-TMP team has/had won't stop it from becoming popular (I do mean Legacy bodies, of course).

[Marianne Little]

20 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

It was released as 3 new heads (for 4k each) and started to become popular right away, though. Many (most?) big/popular skin creators didn't release a single SLUV skin since the original EvoX's release. And at first Lelutka weren't sure if previous Evo heads would updated with all EvoX features, especially with the "hd skins". You can dig that information from various sources like flickr, discord, facebook etc. But given such great feedback they've decided to update previous heads completely.

So, yes, free updates of such scale are always great, especially for customer's loyality and brand's name, which will eventually bring in profit as well. But if the product is great it's not really required. In fact if the product is half decent and also has a proper promotion behind it, then even previous awful reputation like the ex-TMP team has/had won't stop it from becoming popular (I do mean Legacy bodies, of course).

Oh, thanks. My memory is not top. As I remember it, it took a very short time before I heard that all Evo heads would be updated for free. I would not have bought a 5000 L head and started to use it. I had looked at the demos and said "It is too expensive, and I have to buy everything of skin, makeup, tattoos and hairbases again. This new template will never be popular. I think I pass". 

As I remember it, it was like bam! From a little EvoX content, to a lot of EvoX content. Feels like it happened in weeks. (It didn't happen in weeks) The Skin Fair was in March and my head was updated in July. But I had heard that we would get free updates a long time before that.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

It seems to me like if a new UV is the path they're going down, then taking pages from the LeLutka playbook is a very good idea (Free update for everyone who owns a Maitreya body? Massive existing market there!)

"Dear existing Customers, we decided to imitate that ex-creator at Over-Priced-Feet Inc and commit commercial suicide, so now ALL your existing skins are obsolete and you have to immediately rush out and spend stupid money on the Brand X skin line from a store you refuse to shop at because they tip white paint over the skins in bad fake shine, and don't sell the tones you want anyway. So now's the time to switch to that Reborn thing, we didn't want any more money anyway..."

 

Just NO, Lelu could just about get away with it, because their heads came with a "Classic" button that let you use your NON X skins, but doing that for a whole body basically means it being TWO entire copies linked together for a Hud button swap, OR supplying two versions, the X version that means buying bad skin in tones you hate, or the Classic version, that's basically NO CHANGE.

 

I don't know what Lara-X is supposed to be, but I'd guess "new stunt crotch, Belleza style" would be less dangerous than trying to copy Over-Priced-Feet Inc's "Failamon & Whai"

 

5 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

If the only noticeable shape changes were the shoulders and arm connection, this wouldn't break all the existing mesh clothing. It wouldn't affect strapless dresses and tops. It wouldn't affect pants, shorts or skirts. It would only slightly affect tops that cover the shoulders, because an alpha layer or cuts could still hide bits where the body might show through. 

Clothing designers might not even mind having to rig for Lara X, because people will be buying more new clothes.

I have oh, I'm guessing here, some L$40ks worth of Lara fit gear, most of which has shoulder straps or fits the arms in a "you can't alpha your way out of this mess" way.. That's ONE store, let's not even start on the 80 plus outfits I have from a lingerie store that half of which will have shoulder strap issues.

Even assuming I was prepared to wait some years for the maker to remake and resell me everything, I'm not willing to spend that kind of money on stuff I own for Lara, to have it fit Lara, again.

[Hunny Bunny]

6 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

The name; as it follows the LeLutka naming convention (X represents their new UV)

This was a thing back when EvoX was announced way back at skin fair 2021.

But Legacy seems to have fumbled the ball and now Maitreya's has picked it up.

[Gabriele Graves]

For people who only stuck with Lara for the compatibility, this could actually push them to another body.  After all they would have to buy it all again anyway.

Adding the old body everyone already has in the upgrade pack isn't a solution.  In a very short time, that old body will get no support whatsoever and so that is a waste of time.  When Lelutka changed their rigging to "Unbounded" they included the old rigged heads as well, didn't matter one bit - no-one making rigged accessories supported it after that.  Slink also included their old body in with the BoM updated body - result? No further support from clothing creators.

People who make stuff for bodies and heads are only going to provide support for the vendor approved newest sanctioned version, nothing else.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Anna Nova]

Hey, isn't guessing fun!!!

I often use Lucybody Vania as a low-impact alternative for Lara+Petite.  It works well, especially as I know how to make custom alphas.  It would be wonderful (for me) if a new Lara had an alpha-cut-free low-impact version.

I also craft my own skins, by layering BoM bits (details, details) on top of a basic skin, so I will not be too worried about skin compatibility.  My guess will be that the BoM details market will love a new UV map, just like the EvoX revolution.

[Gabriele Graves]

I'm also good no matter what happens.  I have enough skins, outfits, BoM layers and appliers that I'd never get bored of the possible combinations just like with my Evo-mode Lelutka heads.  Currently I buy lots of Lara clothing and related stuff because it's available.  I can imagine a good amount of existing higher priced stuff will be sold of at bargain prices for a long time going forward if it doesn't work with the new Lara and when that dwindles and creators remove them I will just stop buying them.

It was great being able to shop for new clothes like I have since mesh came along but it's not so important to me that I will lose my good sense.  I already look as good as I need to for SL.  I don't need to buy into the hype wagon.

[KathrynLisbeth]

7 hours ago, Orwar said:

   The SLUV has a lot of unused real-estate, we could squeeze in a decent bit more resolution into our bodies with better optimised maps. 

   But also - individual arms. 

Well... 

Remember that while is is not as 'theoretically efficient'  you can still use the SL UV map and have individual arms and individual feet.

It is just a function of <Some object face> grabs the bake from <optional channel>.   That is only an LSL switch.   You don't even have to change the object mapping.

 It is possible if body texture maker uses the same texture on the left arm channel and left leg channel, and the mesh body maker has a BOM 1 (system skin as base), or a BOM 2 (universal layer as base) LSL switch.

Is just that the system layers that we have to use are 'a bit muddled'.  Universal lands on top of tattoo layer, and no alpha (expanded) layer. 

[AmeliaJ08]

12 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

Eh, their new UV failed for a couple reasons IMO:

1. It was explicitly tied to a new body, and none of the existing Slink lineup was updated to use the new UV (meaning; there was no existing market for content that uses the new UV). This is the opposite of what LeLutka did, which was to go back and update their previous products to use the new UV, meaning that there was a large pre-existing market for the new UV
2. Slink was already sliding down the board as their marketing wasn't very good, and tastes changed away from Hourglass, which was their most popular body (as far as I can tell, anyway), and Physique got dwarfed by Maitreya, which is (in my experience) a bit more flexible with it's shape
3. They took a page out of the Legacy playbook for their new body, and slapped a large pricetag on it; yet didn't have anywhere near the marketing and hype to motivate people to actually spend that much.
4. The shape of the new body was very meh, and more importantly, wasn't very flexible.

It seems to me like if a new UV is the path they're going down, then taking pages from the LeLutka playbook is a very good idea (Free update for everyone who owns a Maitreya body? Massive existing market there!)

Also seems pretty critical that Lelutka included SLUV compatibility and as far as I know still do. If someone was to do similar for a body I think this would also be necessary.

I don't particularly like how they labelled this mode but I guess the intention was to push people to the new UV which might explain it but it's there and works perfectly. At least at first people are going to want to use skins they already have, a compatibility mode is required.

 

[AmeliaJ08]

12 hours ago, Orwar said:

   The SLUV has a lot of unused real-estate, we could squeeze in a decent bit more resolution into our bodies with better optimised maps. 

   But also - individual arms. 

I guess there is some border around the whole thing, do you mean that?

Do you mean individual arms as in giving them their own texture as well, like taking them out of the 'upper' map?

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Katherine Heartsong]

12 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

IFFFFF this all turns out to be true though, I'm going to freak owwwwwt! In the meantime, I'm remaining calm and treating it all as rumors. RUMORS I say!

Want this to be true sooooooo bad. Want, want, want. Agree with the clothes thing though ... but if it mean using an alpha to work the shoulders, so be it until the clothes get updated. Then again, I'll just grab it and put it in my purse until many of my favourite places update their clothing, at least the outfits I broke out into "Favourites" folders in my Outfit Inventory (when you could make new folders, sigh).

Agree though with a few ... please, anyone's skins but Velour. Even with the "dullify" add-on they shine far too much for my liking. When TheSkinnery updates her skins, I'm in though.

Edited July 29, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[AmeliaJ08]

12 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Want this to be true sooooooo bad. Want, want, want. Agree with the clothes thing though ... but if it mean using an alpha to work the shoulders, so be it until the clothes get updated.

Same, I've become so happy with Maitreya Petite that any improvement even being talked about is exciting. I just hope that some mis-steps of the past like being so restrictive/slow with dev kits are avoided this time, it took far too long for a lot of clothes to be available for Petite.

I'm a fangirl though, I'll buy in and tough it out if necessary.

 

[Anna Nova]

14 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

 ... but if it mean using an alpha to work the shoulders, so be it until the clothes get updated.

I find I almost always need to alpha-out some aspect of the shoulder-arm connection on Lara, even for clothes from so-called 'good' (and expensive) designers (e.g. Meva and Blueberry).  This may be because I won't compromise on my height (5'3"), nor give myself hyper-hips and broad shoulders.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Want this to be true sooooooo bad. Want, want, want. Agree with the clothes thing though ... but if it mean using an alpha to work the shoulders, so be it until the clothes get updated. Then again, I'll just grab it and put it in my purse until many of my favourite places update their clothing, at least the outfits I broke out into "Favourites" folders in my Outfit Inventory (when you could make new folders, sigh).

Agree though with a few ... please, anyone's skins but Velour. Even with the "dullify" add-on they shine far too much for my liking. When TheSkinnery updates her skins, I'm in though.

I have not seen RUMORS (😂) from creators about anything to do with the UV (yet?). I've only seen talk about the mesh, shoulders, weights, and the devkit. One creator already said she's going to adopt the new version and stop rigging for the old, especially if it turns out the devkit is easier to use. Honestly, that's totally fine for me. I have SO many clothes already that I could continue to wear the old body forever without making another purchase. I'm just super hyped that all this will be given to existing users for free.

My sole concern, as usual, is with the fantasy and furry markets and how quickly they pick it up, but even that's not a big deal. My only complaints with Lara are from a photography/posing perspective, so if I have to stay in the old version until content catches up, it's definitely no big deal. I've managed posing around those wonky shoulders for this long.

Having a whole new body dropped into my inventory to play around with will be really nice, though. I've been itching for something new, but couldn't find any compelling reasons to switch to any other body on the market - especially since that means I'd lose my fantasy content.

[Gabriele Graves]

I've just had @Gryphon Ronas the CSR of Maitreya say in group chat that she doesn't know why UV map changes are being discussed as the new Lara X will be SLUV.  That's in my opinion is a good thing.

[Gabriele Graves]

Alpha cuts are also being retained.

There is some general info and a GIF showing some of the shape differences on their FB page (no account necessary) here: https://www.facebook.com/MaitreyaSL

[Fionalein]

16 hours ago, Jenna Huntsman said:

I'm going to guess the major change will be a new UV map...

which will make me bin the update

Edited July 29, 2023 by Fionalein

[Rowan Amore]

She also said the petite and flat will be updated.

[AmeliaJ08]

Well if it's just a small tweak and the UV remains the same etc then cool, I think people were pretty excited by big changes though.

That said even a small tweak like 'fixing' the Lara shoulders will break its compatibility with most clothes so probably shouldn't be looked at as a small tweak really.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by AmeliaJ08