LaraX?

[AmeliaJ08]

12 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You've spoken about learning to make content, with Blender and Marv-Des...

First Rule, you do not f**c with the rig of a successful and popular product, breaking all existing content made for that product, and expect no fall out from that, regardless of a noisy minority whining that they don't like the shoulders or want more blubber on the butt.

 

Imagine if the Car companies announced that due to requests from 3 morons in Wisconsin, they were discontinuing Round Wheels, and that you were welcome to continue using "obsolete" round wheels for as long as existing stocks of round tyres lasted, but then screw you because progress for 3 morons from Wisconsin.

 

They are NOT "updating Lara for free" they are trying to replace it with a NOT-Lara, that most Lara users never asked for, didn't want and can't use.

And the LAST place we should have heard about this is one skin store many people loath, boasting they will soon sell over priced skins made exclusively for NOT-Lara.

 

Not-Lara is literally an imitation of the least popular version of one of the grids least popular bodies.

Why alienate your customer base with a "Free downgrade to the enemy product you laughed at because of how awful it was"?

 

So... the stuff they say (and I've read plenty of independent accounts of) about the dev kit being *****ty, the weighting annoying etc isn't true? Once again I don't see how 5.3 content is broken in any way... nobody is being forced to use the new body, if something isn't updated then the solution to all problems is to wear 5.3.

I guess I'm just a pleb, I'll give it a try, I can't really see much harm in moving forward with a new version. A lot of that is probably because Maitreya the brand is about the most stable and reliable a thing I've ever seen in SL, I haven't been around for as long as some though.

I don't get the impression the customer base is alienated though, most seem to be pretty into it.

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Zalificent Corvinus]

12 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I guess I'm just not getting the point. If clothing requires Lara 5.3 then every Maitreya customer will have a copy of that body they can use to wear it, how does that break the market?

For an aspiring "Clothing creator" you have a poor grasp of how the industry works.

First of all, expect ever more merchants to STOP making clothes for Lara altogether. Instead they will rig for other bodies, while waiting to see if they can get a Laura X devkit, then they might rig for that, but since at first, NO BUGGER will have clothing for it, most people won't wear it, and there will be poor sales of clothing for it, so poor uptake on making for it.

 

Go back and look at the GenFail inverting stunt crotch bodies and why 3 months after a massive launch campaign, less than 350 people were wearing them in the WHOLE of SL.

 

Even if Laura-X clothing does pick up, most of it won't be reissues of existing Lara clothing, so that further hinders "crossover".

Meanwhile more and more brands will just stop making for the "obsolete discontinued Lara", so your cuustomer base have a 3 way choice

1. Only wear their existing Lara clothing, no more clothes shopping,  largest section of the Clothing market, completely f**ked.

2. Abandon Lara for Laura, have hardly anything to wear, do little shopping, largest section of the clothing market completely f**ked.

3. Switch to one of those brands that have a 2% market share instead of the 35% market share that just committed suicide, do less shopping, largest section of the clothing market completely f**ked.

 

Do you get the picture now? Imagine a world where the single biggest section of almost every female clothing creators business basically vanishes because of the equivalent of "3 morons from Wisconsin wanted TRANGULAR wheels instead of boring old round ones".

[AmeliaJ08]

9 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think those that rig for the main popular bodies and not gotten into the  rigging for 10 bodies.. I think they would rig for the change ups as well, like they were for petite..

Those rigging for ever single new body that comes out, I think put too much on their plate.. Where the ones sticking to a few of the top popular bodies have more time for quality.. So I don't think those creators will have too much problem adding in another version and keeping things  quality..

I'm hoping that's the case..

It's been about 6 or 7 years since  Onyx last talked about an update to the Maitreya body on the flickr comments.. something about the butt or something like that, I forget.. hehehe

There is a good chance that they've been in touch with a lot of content creators about what's coming.. There is probably kits already been handed out and things already made for what's coming.. Heck knows they have an arsenal of creators behind them.. so the update or new body or whatever it is, may go off smoother than we think.. hehehe

Yeah that is definitely a concern. The list of bodies is getting pretty crazy, we can't help but notice it. Even if you're 'only' releasing for the big 5 it still looks like a lot of work, I've seen some people who release for far more than that even (ARTI if you're reading this holy *****...) and it must be such an effort.

It's interesting that Maitreya seems to be copping a lot of flak for this though as opposed to the apparently infinite number of mods for Legacy, Reborn etc. I suppose Belleza got it pretty bad too with GenX though, that hasn't gone down well.

It's SL though, if there's one thing we're apparently good at it's making it more complicated.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

So... the stuff they say (and I've read plenty of independent accounts of) about the dev kit being *****ty, the weighting annoying etc isn't true?

Accounts from WHO, exactly.

The ONLY actual content creator with a successful store, I ever heard complaining about problems rigging for shoulders... Was talking about why she wasn't doing a version of her latest outfit for signature Giovanni.

Some Z-List Micro Brand that NEVER had a Lara dev kit, except an old blackmarket one downloaded off the dark web, moaning about it, it's "everyone wants Lara killed off", sorry.

[AmeliaJ08]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

For an aspiring "Clothing creator" you have a poor grasp of how the industry works.

First of all, expect ever more merchants to STOP making clothes for Lara altogether. Instead they will rig for other bodies, while waiting to see if they can get a Laura X devkit, then they might rig for that, but since at first, NO BUGGER will have clothing for it, most people won't wear it, and there will be poor sales of clothing for it, so poor uptake on making for it.

 

Go back and look at the GenFail inverting stunt crotch bodies and why 3 months after a massive launch campaign, less than 350 people were wearing them in the WHOLE of SL.

 

Even if Laura-X clothing does pick up, most of it won't be reissues of existing Lara clothing, so that further hinders "crossover".

Meanwhile more and more brands will just stop making for the "obsolete discontinued Lara", so your cuustomer base have a 3 way choice

1. Only wear their existing Lara clothing, no more clothes shopping,  largest section of the Clothing market, completely f**ked.

2. Abandon Lara for Laura, have hardly anything to wear, do little shopping, largest section of the clothing market completely f**ked.

3. Switch to one of those brands that have a 2% market share instead of the 35% market share that just committed suicide, do less shopping, largest section of the clothing market completely f**ked.

 

Do you get the picture now? Imagine a world where the single biggest section of almost every female clothing creators business basically vanishes because of the equivalent of "3 morons from Wisconsin wanted TRANGULAR wheels instead of boring old round ones".

Yeah sorry for the discussion, I'll know better next time.

I don't really know what is gained with all these names you keep inventing. We'll see though, my assumptions are based on how Maitreya have dominated the market for so long and the assumption whoever/whatever is behind that isn't going to make some huge blunder that results in them being crushed by whatever the current trend in big asses is you know?

We'll see.

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

12 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

There is a good chance that they've been in touch with a lot of content creators about what's coming.. There is probably kits already been handed out and things already made for what's coming.. Heck knows they have an arsenal of creators behind them.. so the update or new body or whatever it is, may go off smoother than we think.. hehehe

On this front:

Gryphon | Maitreya — Yesterday at 7:15 PM
The new dev kit isn't quite ready yet but licensed creators will get it asap through downloads here - before we unleash the body on the world

The creators I saw chatting on Facebook seemed happy to have a new kit to play with. The old one is rumored to be really difficult, so if this is indeed less rage-inducing, I'd expect quite a few to swap over to making X content. One already confirmed she will be.

Also...can we stop with the X branding omg. Can't get away from it.

*runs screaming*

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

It's interesting that Maitreya seems to be copping a lot of flak for this though as opposed to the apparently infinite number of mods for Legacy, Reborn etc. I suppose Belleza got it pretty bad too with GenX though, that hasn't gone down well.

That's because those other brands are all "under 2% of the market and their f**kups only really hurt them, as opposed to 35% of the total market, and a *****up destroys the whole industry.

Bear in mind that SL's 2nd most popular body is under 9 % and male... That's the market.

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Yeah that is definitely a concern. The list of bodies is getting pretty crazy, we can't help but notice it. Even if you're 'only' releasing for the big 5 it still looks like a lot of work, I've seen some people who release for far more than that even (ARTI if you're reading this holy *****...) and it must be such an effort.

It's interesting that Maitreya seems to be copping a lot of flak for this though as opposed to the apparently infinite number of mods for Legacy, Reborn etc. I suppose Belleza got it pretty bad too with GenX though, that hasn't gone down well.

It's SL though, if there's one thing we're apparently good at it's making it more complicated.

I think Belleza caught a lot of flack because they charged 5500 for what customers were put under the impression, was going to be an update..

They did nothing for the existing customers, other than treat them like they just walked through the door for the first time..

Maitreya has been pretty smart this whole time with how they did things.. We're not getting charged up the wazoo for this new body or update or whichever it is.. they are just giving it to us, like they mostly have in the past, other than the addons..

I think if it's a different body, that the older body will still get rigged for, because that older body has still been the number one producer for years..

If you look at the numbers for Belleza vs GenX.. all the Belleza body version are still being worn more than the GenX..

I think if the creators that count were to start rigging for just this new version of Lara, they would hear about it from their customers.. Because the Maitreya Lara isn't popular because of it's butt..

It's fairly priced best bang for the buck all around goodness..  I've always went back to my Maitreya over the other bodies.. I still use the other bodies, but always end up back at home sooner or later..

I think there is a strong base in the 5.3 and I think many of the good creators know that..

I'd say for me, I have some faith in the Maitreya creator, that they have a good idea of what they are doing and  will try not to upset the wave that 5.3 and prior versions have been riding all these years..  That just because they put out another version doesn't eliminate the existing..

GenX I feel was put out as a replacement for the older bodies.. I don't think we'll get that impression in the PR for this new  version or whatever it is that is coming..

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

15 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

the assumption whoever/whatever is behind that isn't going to make some huge blunder that results in them being crushed

See, that kind of assumption is dangerous... one of the biggest brands, and Lara's closest rival back when, the body in 3rd place, made a vast blunder, and dropped out of the top 20, made another blunder and their new body never made it into the top 200, and then they closed.

One clothing store, in order to reduce workload, dropped support for a moderately popular 2nd string body, in favour of GenFail-X because... They were given a free copy a month before launch with a dev kit, and liked the way their ass looked.

Nice ass for store owner, less earnings due to dropping a size that sold for one that didn't.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

29 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Nothing ... aside the whole market.

27 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

How exactly? the market remains, the body remains...

I guess I'm just not getting the point. If clothing requires Lara 5.3 then every Maitreya customer will have a copy of that body they can use to wear it, how does that break the market?

The market is more than just Maitreya. About a third of the people who wear mesh bodies use Maitreya. It used to more, but Maitreya has been slowly losing its market share to people who wanted a wider ass and smoother shoulders. In the meantime, people who liked their Maitreya bodies, bought some for alts or for friends, but most didn't buy more of the body they already had and didn't buy the Maitreya clothes at their store. 

Belleza "fixed" this same problem by creating a whole new body that is in no way compatible with their previous products. Even their older skins don't work right with it.

SLink did the same with their new, "improved" bodies.

Maitreya knew they needed to get back some of their slipping market share, without antagonizing their current users so much that they'd go to a different brand. This free update that includes both bodies seems like the best they could do. It's not going to make all their old users happy, but most of them will continue to use and recommend their brand. What's also important is that some people will actually *buy* the new body, and if it's easier to rig for, clothing creators will make clothes for it too.

A new body on the market creates excitement and sales. Maitreya wasn't making money from all the old clothing sitting in people's inventories or in the group gift sections of other people's stores. Brand loyalty is great, but a new body will eventually get new people to buy it too.

[Ceka Cianci]

19 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

On this front:

Gryphon | Maitreya — Yesterday at 7:15 PM
The new dev kit isn't quite ready yet but licensed creators will get it asap through downloads here - before we unleash the body on the world

The creators I saw chatting on Facebook seemed happy to have a new kit to play with. The old one is rumored to be really difficult, so if this is indeed less rage-inducing, I'd expect quite a few to swap over to making X content. One already confirmed she will be.

Also...can we stop with the X branding omg. Can't get away from it.

*runs screaming*

It's the Xgames all over again!! \o/

hehehe

I wonder if they maybe  did something with the existing dev kit as well, to help make that a bit less trouble to work with?

[Persephone Emerald]

30 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Also...can we stop with the X branding omg. Can't get away from it.

*runs screaming*

At least it's not "Plus" + everything like streaming services and LL have been doing. Then again, Twitter is just "X" now, so I might start screaming too.

...Imagining a world where brand names are nothing but single letters and characters....😱

[Blush Bravin]

10 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's the Xgames all over again!! \o/

hehehe

I wonder if they maybe  did something with the existing dev kit as well, to help make that a bit less trouble to work with?

Quoting from the Maitreya announcement:

       "The request for smoother weights originates from creators who have expressed the difficulty they experience when creating content for the Lara mesh body (some of them therefore even decided to drop Lara sizes). As much as we wanted to improve the weights issues, doing so would *always result in the breaking of content made for Lara previously." 

*emphasis mine.

From that statement, it seems that doing anything to improve the current dev kit would break content.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Quoting from the Maitreya announcement:

       "The request for smoother weights originates from creators who have expressed the difficulty they experience when creating content for the Lara mesh body (some of them therefore even decided to drop Lara sizes). As much as we wanted to improve the weights issues, doing so would *always result in the breaking of content made for Lara previously." 

*emphasis mine.

From that statement, it seems that doing anything to improve the current dev kit would break content.

 

Thank you..

Here is hoping that it's mostly those rigging for 10 and more bodies that are feeling hindered..

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's the Xgames all over again!! \o/

hehehe

I wonder if they maybe  did something with the existing dev kit as well, to help make that a bit less trouble to work with?

Doubt it, but I haven't seen anything on that. Since 5.3 isn't changing at all, I can't see the old devkit changing. Things creators were asking for to help improve workflows are being built into X.

And yeah, Blush's quote is exactly what I was going to reference here. X is happening to ease those content creation issues (and give customers some updates they've been asking for as well).

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Doubt it, but I haven't seen anything on that. Since 5.3 isn't changing at all, I can't see the old devkit changing. Things creators were asking for to help improve workflows are being built into X.

And yeah, Blush's quote is exactly what I was going to reference here. X is happening to ease those content creation issues (and give customers some updates they've been asking for as well).

Well, hopefully everything comes out in the wash in a good way.. I still love my existing lara, I've got many supplies  for it already to keep me going for many more years.. So if things head in a bad direction, I'm still gonna be sitting pretty for probably the rest of my second life.. hehehe

If things go in a really good way, That's just more butter on mah biscuit and I'll be shoppin like it's a brand new day. hehehe

[Blush Bravin]

I love shopping, but I've been doing most of my clothes shopping for Debi and not so much Blush. Now I have mentioned before that I actually switched Debi over to a Legacy Perky a few months back,  because I had to use so many mods to get the Lara + Petite add-on to get her to look like I wanted because she's short and dainty. Another issue that made me want to change was dealing with having to use an add-on for the petite chest. Too often I'd loose the add-on and have to reattach it. So I'm super happy about this new body, because to be honest, I switched but wasn't ever happy about switching Debi to Perky, but with the new Lara X Petite everything I dreamed about for Debi in a Maitreya body has come true.

So back to shopping from a creators standpoint. If I were to just keep Blush wearing the 5.3 why would I ever need to buy another pair of jeans? She has dozens already. Why would I need to buy another bikini? She has more than dozens of those as well. ETC ... you get my point. Once your wardrobe is so saturated that there's literally nothing you need then why shop? I can say the same thing for Debi. Had I decided to just go back to Lara 5.3, which I most likely would have because I've not been 100% happy with her Perky, why would I need to buy more of anything. She has more clothing than Blush by a long shot. Shopping was becoming a bit boring because I literally didn't need ANYTHING. I know I'm not alone in this thinking.

I believe this is a golden opportunity for creators to boost their sales. And to have fewer headaches trying to rig their creations. Plus as I've noticed with Debi recently, and was another contributing factor in my switching her to Perky, is that rigging makes a big difference in how the avatar/clothing looks moving through animations. So not only will rigging be easier but the clothing the creators pour their energy into will also LOOK so much better on the avatar.

I'm already beginning to sort my inventory in preparation for the release. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

8 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Well, hopefully everything comes out in the wash in a good way.. I still love my existing lara, I've got many supplies  for it already to keep me going for many more years.. So if things head in a bad direction, I'm still gonna be sitting pretty for probably the rest of my second life.. hehehe

If things go in a really good way, That's just more butter on mah biscuit and I'll be shoppin like it's a brand new day. hehehe

Same. I've got enough clothing and enough from niche creators who stuck with Maitreya all this time and never embraced newer bodies to keep me busy forever, so even if there's a lull in content while bigger stores shift from Lara to Lara X, I'm set.

Clothes I don't even care about as those are cheap enough to update over time with sales and whatnot, but pricier mods I do. My mermaid tail never updated to newer bodies and stuck with Maitreya & Legacy M&F, so I'm fairly certain they aren't going to be changing anything. I can still rock 5.3 for stuff like that just fine. Feet aren't changing, so my feet addons will be fine. I've got some hand and torso mods that will likely still require 5.3 - I can't see those getting upgraded anytime soon. These aren't exactly common in-demand products. Whether or not they adopt X going forward isn't a problem since I'll have both anyway.

So really, very little of my wardrobe will be affected. This is a much smaller change for me than if I were to update to an entirely new body like Reborn and be left with no wearable mods in my inventory at all.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I don't really know what is gained with all these names you keep inventing.

It's the same thing that the big orange one does. By refusing to use someone's actual name (or in this case a brand name) and instead referring to them by a derogatory or silly name the person or brand is belittled and denied respect as a normal person or entity.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Persephone Emerald

[Hunny Bunny]

 Regardless of the approach taken, people will always find reasons to complain about updates. Some may express dissatisfaction when there are no updates provided, feeling left behind or unsupported. Others may voice concerns when a new update requires a new purchase, feeling like it's an unnecessary expense. On the other hand, some may grumble even when a new update is completely free and optional, as they might prefer to stick with the older version. In the end, it's impossible to please everyone, and different individuals will have varying opinions and preferences about updates.

Given the overwhelming popularity of Maitreya, which is substantially more favored at 1000+% compared to the Waifus addon, and considering that creators are already working on updates to accommodate the waifus addon, it is highly probable that many creators will continue to support Maitreya. This is especially true if the Maitreya release is a free update for all mesh bodies.

Supporting widely-used and popular mesh bodies can prove advantageous for creators as it enables them to reach a broader audience and potentially boost sales of their products. Additionally, creators may prioritize updating their offerings to cater to popular mesh bodies, aligning with the demands and preferences of their customers.

Considering Maitreya's continued dominance and the fact that many people exclusively use it, this is a positive move. Though rerigging clothing and accessories can be time-consuming, creators are already involved in such updates, making adapting their items to the new Maitreya body a low-risk endeavor. While not all items may be updated immediately, updating their top 10 products seems reasonable. Additionally, incorporating Maitreya into older content updates for other body addons seems a logical step.

[Violet Vanilla]

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

"Kill off Lara"

"Brand suicide"

Well... I paid every item I have in SL with my own money, and I never heard such negativity. It is like you must stop wearing Lara. Why not continue to wear Lara, and swap to LaraX when it is new clothes rigged for LaraX?

Most of us own more than one body, and we manage to swap Lara with Reborn when we will wear something that's only fitted for Reborn.

I can't imagine why it is so bad to get a free update. This sounds like Maitreya ripped you off, instead of giving you more. For free!

Some people would find faults in everything, and toss out rumors like "EVOX style button". 

 

The average SL user only has one body, only the top % of shoppers have multiple bodies because the average user is not willing to deal with the headache of changing bodies constantly and the price of it.

 

From my perspective if the new body does not support older clothes then we get into a split situation. I can either switch to the newer body and lose all my older clothes or I can stick to my old one and watch creators support the newer body only, which leaves me with no new clothes or a reduced amount.

 

You could argue you could switch between the bodies, but this both a major inventory management nightmare but also you can't mix and match things. Most outfits I get are that, just a dress or something, they don't include stockings/socks/shoes/other accessories. So for example if I buy a new Lara X dress which does not fit the current Lara but all my socks and things are for the current Lara, then it simply won't work at all.

 

The only way for this to work is if I abandon everything I have, somehow everyone magically updates their things for Lara X which is impossible since I have things from years ago, the creators have left SL or Lara X works with older clothing.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

People complained about the same thing when mesh body was introduced, Bom, etc....somehow we all adapt

Edited July 30, 2023 by Kylie Jaxxon
spelling

[Claireschen Hesten]

2 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Those creators are probably more heavily into catering for a particular body style which Maitreya doesn't really provide and so they don't get many sales from Maitreya customers anyway.

That could well be true, some were definitely places I shopped in the past when they still did Maitreya, just in general since Reborn and it's endless mods has come along I've noticed a downturn in Maitreya support 

[Ceka Cianci]

39 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Same. I've got enough clothing and enough from niche creators who stuck with Maitreya all this time and never embraced newer bodies to keep me busy forever, so even if there's a lull in content while bigger stores shift from Lara to Lara X, I'm set.

Clothes I don't even care about as those are cheap enough to update over time with sales and whatnot, but pricier mods I do. My mermaid tail never updated to newer bodies and stuck with Maitreya & Legacy M&F, so I'm fairly certain they aren't going to be changing anything. I can still rock 5.3 for stuff like that just fine. Feet aren't changing, so my feet addons will be fine. I've got some hand and torso mods that will likely still require 5.3 - I can't see those getting upgraded anytime soon. These aren't exactly common in-demand products. Whether or not they adopt X going forward isn't a problem since I'll have both anyway.

So really, very little of my wardrobe will be affected. This is a much smaller change for me than if I were to update to an entirely new body like Reborn and be left with no wearable mods in my inventory at all.

I still think that if there is that much change in the Lara X and it is almost a different body, I really think creators are going to do some hard thinking on not rigging for the 5.3.

I'm sure the ones with too much on their plate might pull it, but the ones that are rigging for only a few bodies or realize that they get good sales from the 5.3, I think will be a bit more cautious..

All the bodies have their flaws and some of the people making those the straw that broke the body for them.. But for the most part, I think there will be a good bit of thought on not rigging for 5.3..

It's gonna take a lot to pull like 34% of the market wearers to a body change...

If you look at Freya, it's numbers haven't really dropped from it's wearers that much.. I think Quality of wardrobe has a lot to do with that.. Today you really have to hunt for good quality textured items..

Honestly, the ones I see myself, that have pulled Maitreya from their list, Really isn't the ones I was shopping at before anyways.. There is really good creators that have more room on their plate , that I hope just add this newer  version..

I'm gonna be keeping my fingers crossed on that , rather than the ones I usually just cruse passed anyways.. hehehe

[SarahKB7 Koskinen]

I had a chat with a Maitreya CSR after which I felt reassured and happy.

1. Lara X is not a Lara V5.3 "replacement". Lara X is an addition. The regular Lara isn't being withdrawn.

2. Lara X's neck will maintain the Type 1 and Type 2 Normals Mapping and Alignment found in the current Lara V5.3 and will therefore support older non Evo X Lelutka heads without a visible neck line joint or discolouration.

3. Lara X will still have the three tattoo, underwear and clothing layers that the current Lara V5.3 has, appliers from which will still work with Lara X.

Edited July 30, 2023 by SarahKB7 Koskinen