Avatars are anti social

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Redacted because the post I was responding to is gone.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Polenth Yue]

3 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I don't think the behaviour will change, I think that behaviors will stay the same. No matter if you make an unrealistic avatar or a realistic avatar. It's human behavior and humans are complicated. 

I didn't become a different person when I first changed avatars, but the way people responded to me changed drastically. People are much more likely to approach and talk to tiny avatars, in a way they don't with realistic human avatars. Generally people talking to me use my avatar as a conversation opener, making it easier to start a conversation. They also clearly have expectations that I'll be friendly and that I'm not after sex, so I seem safe to talk to in a way that realistic human avatars might not be.

This shouldn't really be a surprise. All avatars are choices, so people respond to those choices.

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I strongly feel this is a human nature thing we're bumping up against, not a "Second Life / Linden Lab bad" or "introverts".

and what has changed in that time ... 

The more "realistic" an Avatar, the more anti social it is.

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Why do you think that is? Pride/ego?  "I'm too hot to speak to the riff raff here?"

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

One would imagine that the better an avatar looks, the more self confident it should be and willing too be involved in conversations. That is how it tends to work in R/L.

I don't think a realistic looking avatar is necessarily more confident. I think people often use their avatar to compensate for self-perceived short-coming in their RL body. A person who's short in RL, may want a tall avatar. A middle aged or older person with a few extra pounds or wrinkles may want an attractive, sexy or muscular avatar. The person behind the avatar might be shy, even if their avatar looks like they should be confident.

On the otherhand, a person who has an unusual-looking avatar may feel confident, since they've chosen to stand out. Conversely, a person who isn't very concerned about their avatar appearance - perhaps because in RL they don't judge their own worth by their appearance - may also be more confident in SL.

All this of course ignores whether the person is basically introverted or extroverted, whether they're multitasking SL with something else, whether they're busy chatting with people in IM or in group chat, or whether they have limitations on their ability to chat easily, such as a language or typing barrier.

 

[steeljane42]

53 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

I envy you. Unwanted territory seems to be no more than a few phrases away for some people. And they always seem to want to go there with me, for some reason.

The only IMs I really welcome anymore are from friends, and we usually only do that because we might drift out of local chat distance while hanging out on builds and stuff. Or if I meet someone really cool and we want to keep talking after they go home, or have another awesome conversation later, or something.

It's almost nonexistently rare that someone on a sim I'm visiting just sends me an IM and it goes well. Especially if they could have used local chat and chose not to.

It's like being at a party and someone insists on texting rather than talking, because others might hear. That's seldom a good sign for me.

It's mostly on how you perceive IMs/messages than what people say, especially if it's random people. But it's just how it is, some people are more emotional and sensitive than the others, and thus they take same things very differently.

I get plenty of unwanted IMs too, some while shopping, some while exploring random places, some around the usual social spots I check. All the usual garbage most people in SL have encounter every now and then. Key is to not care and not even bother responding if it goes that way, and if they still try to continue for some reason there's always a block button.

As for your example with a party, it also the difference in the perspective. I personally see the local "shouting" with 20m range is more of like if someone would want to talk to 1-2 people about something and for some weird reason decided to actually shout so their conversation would be heard by all random people around. While IM is just "moving to the side and calmly talking with those who is the part of the conversation directly". I don't yell when I talk to my friends when we sit at cafe in rl either, so everyone around would hear what is not their business. And I certainly do not like those loud people who do that kind of a sound pollution, because I'm not exactly wanting to hear about their family, work, problems or what they ate for their breakfast and so on.

Edited June 27, 2023 by steeljane42

[Akane Nacht]

The only places I paid close attention to local chat was roleplay sims, obviously so I could follow the story. Lately though, it seems like many people are just standing silently in costume, sometimes not even on the sim proper but in the landing area, presumably in IM or on Discord. There's definitely been a change in the last decade. 

[PheebyKatz]

Anyone who hates local chat because it's difficult for them to ignore it, well, it's easier to let local chat trundle along unobserved than the flashing notification showing someone has sent yet another IM.

And just because someone insists on talking when I don't want it doesn't mean I'll block them, that's kind of rude in many cases.

What's funny is how often someone will move to just within chat distance, and lurk. They think nobody can see them, but they want to hear everything anyway. XD

[Coffee Pancake]

24 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

What's funny is how often someone will move to just within chat distance, and lurk. They think nobody can see them, but they want to hear everything anyway. XD

This is human nature too .. people are talking, someone comes to listen in, everyone shuts up.

In Sl .. an Avatar is someone, in text chat, a new name in the list, isn't.

 

I'm telling ya, Avatars ruin everything!

Edited June 27, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[Istelathis]

I remember when MMOs were more social, and I too was more social in them.  I don't know what happened, but everything seemed to shift sometime in in the 2010s, people started to become rude to one another in games, and less social.  I hardly talk at all in chat anymore, because I have gotten used to people starting trouble with one another and decided it was not worth it.  Not in SL mind you, I started seeing it in dungeon runs, where people became obnoxious, players would get kicked out of groups and so on.  

I felt it was kind of like moving from a small town feel, to the big city - people just pushing and shoving one another around trying to get ahead of them.  I mean, there were always internet trolls, newsgroups were filled with them, chatrooms as well, but small groups of people were usually pretty civil until it seemed to shift, and I think perhaps it just turned people off and they started to feel anxious to participate with others.

Trade, general, and other chatrooms in WoW retain their popularity, but last I checked it has always kind of been a place where a lot of people are arguing back and fourth, trolling one another, and so on.  As far as discord, I have an account but barely chat on that either, but it is an entirely different format regardless, posts can be spread out over a period of hours, and it is not on the fly conversation like it would be in local chat.  

 

[PheebyKatz]

18 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I'm telling ya, Avatars ruin everything!

But... but... when all I had was IRC, everyone wanted avatars!

And when all I had was an avatar maker site, all they wanted was to be able to chat! With their avatars!

Give them avatars AND chat, and they stand around silent while chatting on Discord with people who aren't even inworld!

It's human nature indeed. We are just so derned contrary! XD

Edited June 27, 2023 by PheebyKatz
It's Discord, not dsicord.

[Harper Held]

4 hours ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Because there is nothing to do in Opensim but go to a club and chat? (I'm being funny but it is true)

There's building, terraforming, almost any of the SL things one can do with the notable exception of going to a populated XXX club...

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, PheebyKatz said:

But... but... when all I had was IRC, everyone wanted avatars!

We wanted audio emotes too and someone cut up hundreds of clips from TNG .. Fair to say we were idiots.

[PheebyKatz]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

We wanted audio emotes too and someone cut up hundreds of clips from TNG .. Fair to say we were idiots.

The Duke Nukem soundboard was what did me in.

You're right.

[Kathlen Onyx]

27 minutes ago, Han Held said:

There's building, terraforming, almost any of the SL things one can do with the notable exception of going to a populated XXX club...

Sure there is but there is no one there to even see it. I was there for two years and I spent most of my time alone except when I went to a club that had maybe 7-10 people there.

[Harper Held]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Sure there is but there is no one there to even see it. I was there for two years and I spent most of my time alone except when I went to a club that had maybe 7-10 people there.

There's buildy events/festivals you can be a part of: Avatarfest(I that one killed in 2018 so maybe not), osfest, the osgrid birthday...

 

I mean, you're not wrong and there's a grand total of 500 people on the hypergrid at any given time but...yeah. I forget my point, sorry.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Han Held
picking nits

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

5 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

element of risk involved.

Of what?  I have conversations with people nearly every day and honestly can't remember the last time one went sideways into unwanted territory.  The only risk of sending an IM would be boredom IMO.  Those are easy enough to get out of for.the most part.

Risks include being ignored, judged, made fun of, rejected..

[Love Zhaoying]

When I was a cub, we didn't have any fancy MMOOS, Discard, or TwatzUp.

We had AOL Chatrooms, and we LIKED it! (Before that, we had BITNET.)

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

8 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The more "realistic" an Avatar, the more anti social it is.

[Love Zhaoying]

Ideas:

- LL could add a feature to track and show places with public chat; similar to "Traffic" but for # Public Chatters. Merely requires submitting a JIRA. Once implemented, we can see "where to go be social".

- Hire Bots to survey places with public chat and publish the results. Merely requires cadres of despised bots. Once implemented, we can complain about our "violated privacy".

[SorachaNicEoghain]

I don't inflict my voice chat on people in local (sales background) People in sl are way too chill for that. Instead I chat in local at 40wpm typing speed 🤣. It's a lot of fun.....for me. Only kidding. But yes I am a local chatter at clubs. Usually commenting on the music. "Everyone jump if you feel this tune needs some cowbell" Also, my avatar always looks judgemental and sulky, so that's hilarious in itself. Look at this face! Having the time of her life. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by SorachaNicEoghain

[Sid Nagy]

14 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I would say, just like us as humans, our avatars have the same personalities as us. 

I agree, but I would add when not role playing.

 

[Sid Nagy]

Look at RL. People on their phones in restaurants, at birthday parties, in theme parks, in supermarkets, in theaters, in church, at school you name it. Everywhere, even at the toilet.
It seems more and more people prefer indirect conversations above the face to face ones.
A growing number of people is even afraid to have a normal phone conversation (voice) these days.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Sid Nagy

[Aiyumei]

My avatar and looks are augment reflection of my personality. I'm introverted and anti-social in RL with close circle of very good friends in my life. It's the same inworld. Maybe I'm not anti-social, or maybe I'm anti-bull*****, who knows...

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Look at RL. People on their phones in restaurants, at birthday parties, in theme parks, in supermarkets, in theaters, in church, at school you name it. Everywhere, even at the toilet.

What are we suppose to do while doing our "job" read the description on the shampoos? 
I know how it feels, for me it's very annoying and irritating when I go out with others and they stare at their phones. But in truth it's a habit most people developed and let's face it, mobile devices can be very addictive! In my case I always make remark to my friends if they stare at their phones too much and tell them to stop it and they almost always stop for the time being.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

Look at RL. People on their phones in restaurants, at birthday parties, in theme parks, in supermarkets, in theaters, in church, at school you name it. Everywhere, even at the toilet.
It seems more and more people prefer indirect conversations above the face to face ones.
A growing number of people is even afraid to have a normal phone conversation (voice) these days.

I hate that really, when people you're with stare at their phones instead of interacting with the people they're actually with. I started noticing it more than 10 years ago and it's only increasing.

But then (sorry, thinking again)...what actually is "actually with" these days?  Perhaps that is changing.

But with voice in SL, it's been interesting of late for me, as I never used voice in SL before but am now doing so. It's fun to explore, but I'm not sure I like it. People seem more intelligent when typing, when carefully considering their position and filtering out some of the unnecessary parts that speaking off-the-cuff seems to encourage.

[PJBear Bitey]

15 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes the destination guide needs to include something about where people are actually conversing in Local!

It would be such a boon to new people coming to this social platform.

Wait, this is a social platform? I came here to look at neat builds, and stuff like that. 

[Sid Nagy]

6 minutes ago, PJBear Bitey said:

Wait, this is a social platform? I came here to look at neat builds, and stuff like that. 

One definitely needs cute bunny ears to attract neat builds and stuff like that.  😂

Edited June 27, 2023 by Sid Nagy