Avatars are anti social

[Ayashe Ninetails]

11 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean sure for some people, but that being said. I sure as heck don't feel that way. 

Me either, really. I'm so used to running around in avatar form both within SL and outside of it that it really doesn't faze me at all. It probably helps that I change appearance constantly and there is no singular "me" I'm particularly tied to, but it's all so minor in the scheme of things.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Ayashe Ninetails
Grammaring

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would love to understand the different ways those on the spectrum perceive this...  regarding feelings...bodies...intimacy.  No doubt it is quite different to how those who are not on the spectrum perceive it.

No one size fits all here, and many variables, but I bet there is enough of a correlation to differentiate the two.

I mean as I said, not everyone does this. But generally speaking, I don't get that same feeling in SL. Then say in RL. I mean I love cuddling in SL, but it's more of a platonic thing for me. But I don't get any sort of warm fuzzy feeling from it. 

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Me either, really. I'm so used to running around in avatar form both within SL and outside of it that it really doesn't faze me at all. It probably helps that I change appearance constantly and there is no singular "me" I'm particularly tied to, but it's all so minor in the scheme of things.

Maybe it more relates to trying to connect to others in the situation, either trying or wanting to.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would love to understand the different ways those on the spectrum perceive this...  regarding feelings

I'm confused, I thought it was other people who wanted to talk about "feelings"...?

Is this a type of therapy discussion? "Feelings, body, intimacy.."

 

[Luna Bliss]

Of course there are things you an do to help autistic people be more connected to their bodies in SL.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm confused, I thought it was other people who wanted to talk about "feelings"...?

Is this a type of therapy discussion? "Feelings, body, intimacy.."

 

I have no idea. 

 

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

17 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would love to understand the different ways those on the spectrum perceive this...  regarding feelings

I'm confused, I thought it was other people who wanted to talk about "feelings"...?

Is this a type of therapy discussion? "Feelings, body, intimacy.."

The gist of it...Coffee thinks that avatars are anti-social because they speak less in avatar form in SL as opposed to talking more on Discord.

I'm proposing that the reason is because being in body form (even in SL) is more intimate, and people are always a bit defensive regarding intimacy because they could be hurt from such exposure.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Luna Bliss

[Persephone Emerald]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Oh and one more thing you forgot, Luna (LOL).

It's interesting that we do feel more exposed when our virtual bodies are present, at least many do, as opposed to abstract texting on the phone, at Discord, and perhaps on the forum.

9 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean sure for some people, but that being said. I sure as heck don't feel that way. I don't metaphorically, upload my conscience ness to SL. To me it's a way to see people, that I maybe can't see. Due to distance or something else. 

This forum is like a local bar or coffee shop where most of us know each other. Once in a while a stranger comes in, we greet them but eye them warily. We know who's touchy, who's growly, who's struggling, etc., so we may treat them accordingly. We know who's irritated us before and who's befriended us before. For the regulars then, the forum is a fairly safe place to chat.

Inworld, I feel I do upload part of my consciousness. I'm fairly confident - at least more so than in a strange place in RL. I feel like a homeowner in SL, which I'm not in RL, so that gives me a small sense of social clout. Having spent years in SL also gives me a sense of some authority about it's workings. In some places in SL, however, I do feel out of place, particularity clubs and Adult venues, so I'm likely to be a wallflower in these kinds of locations.

Give me a good group chat any day though. I can chat if and when I feel like I have something to say, then drop out of the conversation completely if I no longer want to continue with it - much like here on the Forum.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

Maybe it more relates to trying to connect to others in the situation, either trying or wanting to.

Don't know. Whether I chat with people on Discord or in-world "face to face" or on the phone or on voice chat while messing around in PvP is not really any different to me. I am quite a chatty person by nature one-on-one or in small groups, so as long as there's fun conversation happening somewhere, I'm all for it - avatars or no. 

Unless it's one of those voice verification situations. They can forget that mess. 😏

[Scylla Rhiadra]

31 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Gorean communities were thriving for seemingly ever, so I imagine some are still around today.

My sense is that this is a much depleted community, and that many have moved on to, um, more genial platforms. They did, or do, undoubtedly breed a sense of community, but they just aren't as prevalent as they once were.

And speaker personally, as a proud member of the "peanut gallery," I'm pretty good with that. I've known some quite nice individual Goreans, but the culture is . . . not a tolerant one.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And speaker personally, as a proud member of the "peanut gallery," I'm pretty good with that. I've known some quite nice individual Goreans, but the culture is . . . not a tolerant one.

I would get to some peanut gallery complaining regarding some lesbian vampires I met, but best not, and I need to get back to my shopping  

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

And speaker personally, as a proud member of the "peanut gallery," I'm pretty good with that. I've known some quite nice individual Goreans, but the culture is . . . not a tolerant one.

The ONE time I went somewhere as a "human", it was because my Cub at the time asked me to go to a special Gorean gathering and "they don't like furs".   Yeah, not again.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

My sense is that this is a much depleted community, and that many have moved on to, um, more genial platforms. They did, or do, undoubtedly breed a sense of community, but they just aren't as prevalent as they once were.

And speaker personally, as a proud member of the "peanut gallery," I'm pretty good with that. I've known some quite nice individual Goreans, but the culture is . . . not a tolerant one.

Oh, I purposefully didn't get into the details about my feelings on that whole thing. You probably know me well enough by now to draw your own conclusions there.

That said, though, they seemed fairly active and social the few times I ran across them many years ago - while totally NOT being up to no good or anything. 😏

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

You probably know me well enough by now to draw your own conclusions there.

I had no doubts about that whatsoever, Ayashe.

Anyway, this is a digression that isn't going to end well if permitted to continue, so I am going to step back from this particular abyss . . .

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I've known some quite nice individual Goreans, but the culture is . . . not a tolerant one.

It's a roleplay culture that tends to be encompassing, people prefer not to break character as that is the hook that gets others into the roleplay,  and staying in character protects against jerks who can't tell it's a roleplay (or people who just want to troll).

Gorean archetypes are well defined, so its easy to build one into a personal character and then just run with it everywhere .. mainly because once people get into playing Gor, they stick with it long term. Everywhere in SL ends up being Gor .. acting in character becomes second nature, so why drop character meeting a normie shopping or something.

These archetypes also provide clear rules for interaction, sort of a guided social short hand.

I know some long term Gorean's in and out of SL. There is an LGBTQ population and lots of cis people playing cross gender characters (especially cis women playing men), It's my impression that the over all population skews female identified behind the scenes.

But yeah .. thematically, the Gorean universe is not tolerant at all, that's the entire point and provides the backdrop for adventures to happen easily. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's a roleplay culture that tends to be encompassing, people prefer not to break character as that is the hook that gets others into the roleplay,  and staying in character protects against jerks who can't tell it's a roleplay (or people who just want to troll).

Gorean archetypes are well defined, so its easy to build one into a personal character and then just run with it everywhere .. mainly because once people get into playing Gor, they stick with it long term. Everywhere in SL ends up being Gor .. acting in character becomes second nature, so why drop character meeting a normie shopping or something.

These archetypes also provide clear rules for interaction, sort of a guided social short hand.

I know some long term Gorean's in and out of SL. There is an LGBTQ population and lots of cis people playing cross gender characters (especially cis women playing men), It's my impression that the over all population skews female identified behind the scenes.

But yeah .. thematically, the Gorean universe is not tolerant at all, that's the entire point and provides the backdrop for adventures to happen easily. 

Oh sure, yep, all of this.

As I said I've known very nice Goreans (mostly women). I was even once approached by the head of a "woman-friendly" Gorean community, who wanted me to visit.

But you know enough yourself about the ideological and historical context underpinning the inception of the books, and hence also underwriting the RP (esp. the "by-the-book" communities) to, I'm sure, understand my feelings on this subject.

Anyway, whatevs. This is not the place for a discussion on the merits and demerits of Gor.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Anyway, whatevs. This is not the place for a discussion on the merits and demerits of Gor.

It is however an example of an avatar based social grouping that's less impacted by people standing around in silence.

[Sammy Huntsman]

50 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The gist of it...Coffee thinks that avatars are anti-social because they speak less in avatar form in SL as opposed to talking more on Discord.

To me, it doesn't really matter where you socialize. And I only think you can interact as an avatar, in SL. Once you take it outside of SL, you are interacting person to person. As in actual human to human interaction. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It is however an example of an avatar based social grouping that's less impacted by people standing around in silence.

Lol, yes, it is.

[Love Zhaoying]

Right so..that's why I mentioned vampires, goreans, etc.: each of these are "groups", who will feel more or less "more comfortable" with their "own", while some of "us" feel "less comfortable" at their mere mention. Kind of the opposite of the Tiny / Dinky examples. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

29 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Right so..that's why I mentioned vampires, goreans, etc.: each of these are "groups", who will feel more or less "more comfortable" with their "own", while some of "us" feel "less comfortable" at their mere mention. Kind of the opposite of the Tiny / Dinky examples. 

Generally speaking, I feel like these groups tend to stick with their own and not really venture out and talk to anyone outside of those circles. So I mean by that definition, they are not anti-social. They just like smaller circles of friends. And to be honest with you, I could care less what people do in SL. As long as they are having fun, and I am pretty comfortable with mentioning the name. I mean it's just a word. Lol 

[Ceka Cianci]

In other words SL mimics RL people with phones. hehehe

[Sammy Huntsman]

22 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

In other words SL mimics RL people with phones. hehehe

I mean yeah, when the Beta for the mobile viewer comes out. Lol. Sorry, I had to make that joke. 

 

[Gabriele Graves]

I absolutely disagree with the premise of this topic.  Avatars aren't anti-social.

The behaviour described is just the human condition and it absolutely happens on group chat, conference IMs, forums and things like Discord.

The only difference is that it largely goes unnoticed on those mediums.  This is because the people who are staying silent have no discernable presence to notice.  People who are hesitant to engage only make their presence felt when they start to contribute on those mediums but nobody has any idea of how long they were waiting for someone to break the ice or say something they felt they could join in with beforehand.

An avatar gives many an expectation of presence and so it becomes more noticeable when they are silent.  People make too many assumptions about why an avatar is present but silent though it just might be because there is no actual person present at all.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Gabriele Graves
correction.

[Rowan Amore]

5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I absolutely disagree with the premise of this topic.  Avatar aren't anti-social.

The behaviour described is just the human condition and it absolutely happens on group chat, conference IMs, forums and things like Discord.

The only difference is that it largely goes unnoticed on those mediums.  This is because the people who are staying silent have no discernable presence to notice.  People who are hesitant to engage only make their presence felt when they start to contribute on those mediums but nobody has any idea of how long they were waiting for someone to break the ice or say something they felt they could join in with beforehand.

An avatar gives many an expectation of presence and so it becomes more noticeable when they are silent.  People make too many assumptions about why an avatar is present but silent though it just might be because there is no actual person present at all.

I joined the forums back in 2014.  I would usually just look through the General Forums and read what interested me.  It wasn't until 2020 and the pandemic that I actually started engaging on a regular basis.  Before that, I probably read through the General posts weekly.  Unless people check the page to see who is here, (always had that shut off) you'll never know who might be lurking.  🤔

I think your explanation is probably more accurate than anything else said so far.