Classic vs Mesh?

[smoothazndude]

This topic may have been covered but I have not yet found more discussions.  I am a noob to SL and have been enjoying exploring the many worlds and lands which also includes some social aspects like chatting and just saying hello.  But I have had comments on my avatar; I have selected one of the default "Classic" avatars that I liked to start with.  With my avi, I made some small purchases of clothes and accessories to make the game seem more real and fun.  But I have received some comments about my "classic" look including a quip "Well, looks like someone needs an upgrade" when I said "Hello" in the Nearby Chat.  Another person IM'd me and suggested (kindly) that I might consider a "Mesh" body and who I might talk to for suggestions; another person mentioned brands and body types.  I have to say that some of the bodies do look nice but I kind of like my avatar TBH.  So in SL are "Mesh" considered the more attractive and more desirable vs Classic being less so?  I do not see a lot of "classic" avatars running around.  I did some checking on marketplace and I am unsure if I want to spend all that money on a mesh look.   Is this Classic vs Mesh a "thing" in SL?

Edited May 1, 2023 by smoothazndude

[benchthis]

That's really cool that you are hanging on to the classic avatar, I did the same for a long time. I was kind of anti mesh. In reality the classic avatars are mesh they are just not as smooth, lumpy fingers and no toes. I did away with my hands with what they call an alpha to make parts vanish. I made my hands vanish and I wore gloves to hide my lumpy fingers. 

It took me a good two years to go to mesh. Be sure to save your appearance so you can always go back to your avatar with your acquired outfit, don't be afraid to try body and head demos.

Second Life is working on new system avatars that will be smoothers have fingers and toes, last I heard developers were working on clothing and accessories for them. I look forward to making a new system avatar when they come out. 

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I'm  sorry you ran into some people who felt the need to comment on your choice of avatar.  It's okay to like what you like. The only one who's opinion matters is yours and plenty of long time residents still use their original pre-mesh looks.

I hope you meet some nicer people in your travels that will focus more on who you are than how they think you should look. 

 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 hours ago, smoothazndude said:

This topic may have been covered but I have not yet found more discussions.  I am a noob to SL and have been enjoying exploring the many worlds and lands which also includes some social aspects like chatting and just saying hello.  But I have had comments on my avatar; I have selected one of the default "Classic" avatars that I liked to start with.  With my avi, I made some small purchases of clothes and accessories to make the game seem more real and fun.  But I have received some comments about my "classic" look including a quip "Well, looks like someone needs an upgrade" when I said "Hello" in the Nearby Chat.  Another person IM'd me and suggested (kindly) that I might consider a "Mesh" body and who I might talk to for suggestions; another person mentioned brands and body types.  I have to say that some of the bodies do look nice but I kind of like my avatar TBH.  So in SL are "Mesh" considered the more attractive and more desirable vs Classic being less so?  I do not see a lot of "classic" avatars running around.  I did some checking on marketplace and I am unsure if I want to spend all that money on a mesh look.   Is this Classic vs Mesh a "thing" in SL?

Unfortunately, a large portion of SL is all about looks and 'the latest & greatest' -- meaning they will snub people that are not mesh, and sometimes even people that are not wearing the latest mesh.  I sent an alt out wandering around, in a mesh body but with an older non-bento mesh head.  Even she got comments about 'needing to upgrade'.

As for myself, while I do use a mesh body (because the system feet & hands are horrid), I still use a system/classic head.  Primarily because I've had my look for eons in SL and I've just never felt like taking the time to try getting a mesh head "close" (being told that I will likely never be able to fully duplicate my current face look).  My only socializing inworld though is with a bunch of friends that I've known for over a decade -- and since I've known them forever, they don't care whether or not I upgrade.  

You'll have to decide for yourself what is important.  There are areas where the folks don't care so much about your looks, but they are likely harder to find.  

Edited May 2, 2023 by LittleMe Jewell

[Cali Souther]

ahhhh,  you met one or two of the "avatar snobs" that stink up Second Life ... they are so proud, they put it in their profiles!   

It's easier said than done,  but - do try to ignore them.   I have several friends who have been in SL for many years and never went mesh.  They look absolutely fine!!!   I have one friend that has never went mesh and never changes clothes - always wears the same clothes...  so what?   It's his choice and no one should judge anyone else,  especially for a freakin' avatar!!!!!

As the wise ladies above me said,   it's really up to you!   

There ARE some people that are very anti-mesh ....   I find them just as irritating as the "mesh only" types.  Everyone should be who they want to be,  that's what Second Life is all about!

I will advise you to take your time.  Going mesh costs money,  and it can get complicated - so don't let snobs push you into something you don't want or may not be ready for....

Welcome to Second Life - you'll meet some really great people and some real jerks... it's inevitable.   

[steeljane42]

Place matters a lot too. If it's a random spot, then random comments on your or anyone else's appearance are uncalled for. But if you did wander into some RP (roleplay) heavy places then such comments are somewhat expected. People there usually care about two things, and it's their RP experience and visuals.

If you're happy with your look you may leave such places, but to answer your question - yes, a well put together mesh avatar is much more desirable in various settings. It's not limited to mesh/not mesh only, though. Before mesh bodies it was about quality skin, well made proportional shape, good AO, good hair and clothes/shoes etc. In many ways it's still is to this day on top of the mesh itself. So there always will be some standards people have for anything. You may agree with them or not, but it's their standards so it's really up to them what/how/why they interact with others.

Just remember that people use SL for the very different reasons. Not all want to make friends online, not all want to get to know you behind your avatar either. And it is perfectly fine too. Explore and find places and people that suit your interests and needs, and ignore the rude people as you would elsewhere on the internet as they exist everywhere, not just in SL.

P. S.

Being an "avatar snob" is one thing. I am one of them myself, and I don't feel sorry for that one bit. I really don't. I like pretty visuals in my SL. But there are polite ways to limit your interactions with people without being rude, it's what most of them tend to forget and why the "avatar snobs" get bad reputation. I personally just tell people I don't want to interact with (and it's not always because of their look either) that I'm not interested. 99.9% of them stop at that. Now the reasons why I told them this are really no one else's business, but being polite costs nothing so there's no reasons not to be polite.

[Claireschen Hesten]

6 hours ago, smoothazndude said:

So in SL are "Mesh" considered the more attractive and more desirable vs Classic being less so? 

There are some aspects of the system body that aren't very desirable they are the feet and hands, most people at minimum prefer to cover them up with mesh hands and feet. the big advantage a mesh body has over a system one is dressing, these days you will find it much easier to find clothes to fit mesh bodies. If you aren't too concerned with keeping up with the latest fashions there's no need to upgrade 

[xBaeBeex]

I guess I am an av snob too, however I've never even considered being rude or pushing my own ideas and 'looks' onto others.. 

You'll find some people in sl won't interact with you if you stay classic.. that's just..a fact.. people like to feel elite and superior..  just like in real life like buying a fancier house or car.. and in real life you wouldn't feel the pressure to keep up with them .. so don't think you should feel pressured in second life either.. 

[Katherine Heartsong]

There is definitely a decent sized contingent of "mesh snobs". They'll often have something in their profile like "It's 2023 people, update your avatar!" to really make their (snobby) point or some such poppycock. Ignore them. There is a much smaller bunch of die-hard classic users who take the opposite approach and get all snooty as well, but in the opposite direction.

We all have what we like to look at in SL (me? I made my avatar 6' tall prim-height and am a self-professed height snob) but no one should be so rude as to comment negatively about your avatar. That's their immaturity showing, not yours. My Irish gran would have crossed a street twice to smack anyone who said something that rude out loud. Ignore them, do SL however you need to and want to. There are haters for every look in SL ... and yet only the classic avatar folks get publicly picked on.

Enjoy SL on your terms.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Gwin LeShelle]

We all agree it wasn't the nicest to say things like that.

But I noticed that with the bot flood of the last few years people got also very vary of certain avatars, like this women with large hat and the hippie dude. I even saw some people getting banned from places for wearing them.

For this reason bots should have their own set of skins that scripted AVs are forced to use. Not to label them but to prevent that they are giving people using the standard AVs a bad name. (And they should do this before releasing their NUX body or it will fail because of it)

Because active users should be able to wear what they want, mesh attached or ruthed. There's love for everyone, at least in my SL.

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Gwin LeShelle

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Unfortunately, a large portion of SL is all about looks and 'the latest & greatest' -- meaning they will snub people that are not mesh, and sometimes even people that are not wearing the latest mesh.  I sent an alt out wandering around, in a mesh body but with an older non-bento mesh head.  Even she got comments about 'needing to upgrade'.

 

This happened to me too. I have a Maitreya body and a LAQ head and someone IM'd me and said "you do know you can get newer bodies and heads right"? Once I upgraded to a mesh body and head I have never changed it. Personally my body and face is what identifies me and changing it to something new seems weird to me. Also, most hair fits perfectly on me and there are tons of clothes for Maitreya.  She wasn't rude or anything but why IM someone and say that? I sometimes think that those types of people are like that in RL too buying expensive purses and clothes just for the label. Me, I like knock offs.  

[Gwin LeShelle]

3 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

Place matters a lot too. If it's a random spot, then random comments on your or anyone else's appearance are uncalled for. But if you did wander into some RP (roleplay) heavy places then such comments are somewhat expected. People there usually care about two things, and it's their RP experience and visuals.

If you're happy with your look you may leave such places, but to answer your question - yes, a well put together mesh avatar is much more desirable in various settings. It's not limited to mesh/not mesh only, though. Before mesh bodies it was about quality skin, well made proportional shape, good AO, good hair and clothes/shoes etc. In many ways it's still is to this day on top of the mesh itself. So there always will be some standards people have for anything. You may agree with them or not, but it's their standards so it's really up to them what/how/why they interact with others.

Just remember that people use SL for the very different reasons. Not all want to make friends online, not all want to get to know you behind your avatar either. And it is perfectly fine too. Explore and find places and people that suit your interests and needs, and ignore the rude people as you would elsewhere on the internet as they exist everywhere, not just in SL.

P. S.

Being an "avatar snob" is one thing. I am one of them myself, and I don't feel sorry for that one bit. I really don't. I like pretty visuals in my SL. But there are polite ways to limit your interactions with people without being rude, it's what most of them tend to forget and why the "avatar snobs" get bad reputation. I personally just tell people I don't want to interact with (and it's not always because of their look either) that I'm not interested. 99.9% of them stop at that. Now the reasons why I told them this are really no one else's business, but being polite costs nothing so there's no reasons not to be polite.

Beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

What's beautiful to you might be ugly to the non mesh person in front of you. 

I always talked to all the AVs that are nice, not nice looking but nice personality wise. 

Tinies, Dinkies, kids, animals, noobs, standard or mesh wearers ... I never care. The nicest conversations I found like this over the years ♪⁠ヽ⁠(⁠･⁠ˇ⁠∀⁠ˇ⁠･⁠ゞ⁠)

But maybe because I never saw SL as a dating place, many do tho.

And I personally prefer a well made non mesh av(well made as in put creativity into it) over another generic chubby babygirl. But I wouldn't say they should change or something because it's the awesome thing about this second life...we can have a name we want and can look like we want within a few seconds we can change into what we feel like today ʕ⁠っ⁠•⁠ᴥ⁠•⁠ʔ⁠っ

 

[Lyssa Greymoon]

Whatever floats your boat. I think you should make your avatar to please one person and it isn't "someone needs an upgrade" guy.

For me the two big pros of mesh bodies and heads are, they look better (totally worth it for no more lumpy boobs), and nowadays shopping for mesh items is much easier. Everyone makes items for the big two mesh bodies, and I can be very confident almost anything I get will fit out of the box. I do not miss adjusting, resizing and finding proper alpha layers for classic avatars. 

[Nalates Urriah]

Well, you have met the mesh snobs. So, you are aware we have jerks in SL. Maybe more than our share. I confess to being a semi-snob. But for some occasions, I still use a system-classic avatar.

While beauty is in the eye of the beholder... there are details of the classic avatar that do not render well. When sitting the chest collapses inward at the bottom of the ribcage. Toes are smeared together. Fingers do not animate but can be posed. But fewer and fewer animations use the system-style hand poses. From certain camera angles, one can see polygon corners breaking up what should be smooth curves. In the groin area textures smear.

In spite of all these nuances, one can make a classic avatar that minimizes all the problems and looks good.

For years users have been asking for upgrades to the avatar. So when we were given MESH to work with users used it to upgrade the avatar body, head, hands, and feet. The Lindens then gave us ways to more fully and in fun ways to work with mesh avatars. Some GE.AG heads have the Bewitched (old TV series) nose wiggle.

Hand animations and facial expressions are now animated or posed. The curves are smooth.

I think the Cinnamon & Chai body by Slink was the completed transition to a body using all the tech we have to make the best body. BUT... it has some flaws that prevented one from making the 'shape' they desired. Sliders in the hips and butt did not work well together. Belliza's new GenX is technically close to what Slink achieved but without the technical efficiency or optimization. But a nice body.

Whether Classic or Mesh much of how an avatar looks is the skill of its owner in making/choosing shapes,  skins, and clothes. Only for those into 'fashion' is appearance all that important. In many cases that 'fashion' can be read as 'sex appeal'. There is no reason for anyone to conform to some imagined or proclaimed "standard" in SL. Be happy. Have fun. Avoid letting anyone harsh your mellow.

[Janet Voxel]

It may be snobbery, it may be someone attempting to be helpful and take you around to the hottest mesh head and body shops. Tact isn’t everyone’s strong suit. I’ve seen many default avatars at Lelutka and various skin stores.

I also don’t think it’s necessarily a mesh v ‘classic’ avatar issue. There are quite a few trolls that show up in one of the default avatars on sims to start trouble. I’ve seen it many times before. So much so, people are known to have their guards up around default avatars.

[elleevelyn]

if you have no plans on getting nekkid in SL then getting a mesh body is a waste of time and money, as the only skin showing will be your face and hands

and in this cases the skin is the most important thing to consider, given that there are plenty of mesh garments, shoes/boots and hair available for the male classic avatar

 

 

[Conifer Dada]

I still use a 'classic' avatar after 16 years in SL.

I can live with the disadvantages - the 4 main ones are:

1) less smooth joint articulation at shoulders and wrists

2) Less detail to shapes of hands and feet

 3) Not possible to have differing textures on left and right arms, hands or feet.

4) Not possible to add a proper dynamic sheen to your skin.

 

But I find the classic avatar works better for my thin shape. Combined with a good skin and a good AO (animation over-ride) one sometimes needs to look closely to spot a 'classic' avatar. I've been advised to 'upgrade' a couple of times over they years, and in both cases I thought (but didn't say) that the person advising me could do with some assistance themselves regarding their shape and choice of skin!

On the other hand, mesh is pretty much essential for hair and for any loose fitting clothes. 

Before spending lots of money on a mesh avatar, it's worth bearing in mind that Linden Lab is planning to introduce new mesh avatars of their own soon, presumably available free to all.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Conifer Dada

[Coffee Pancake]

It's not snobbery.

Classic avatars are dead.

They have no on going support or development and haven't for years. LL replaced them with off the peg starter avatars years ago and are about to replace those with the new NUX avatar bodies. The only reason classic avatars will continue to exist at all is to support legacy content, aka, novelty under the guise of "history".

 

So that all said, if you chose a classic avatar, be under no illusion that it is a choice and people will have opinions on that. By wearing a classic avatar you are (perhaps inadvertently) culturally and socially choosing to align your avatar with disposable griefers and trolls. Rejecting assistance to update your avatar (at no cost) makes the choice crystal clear in the wider SL cultural context. No one has the time or energy to unpick your precise motivations. 

If you want to speed run becoming a social pariah, doggedly sticking with a classic avatar with all the attached cultural baggage, is absolutely how you do that.

You're that guy. On purpose. Expect to be treated as such.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[Coffee Pancake]

I will add there is something of a carve out for very old accounts with very old system avatars.

If you were here when they were legit, you get to keep it.

[JeromFranzic]

While I am generally a meshed out personality in SL... occasionally you will find me using a Ruth or classic avi, or a cheap non human thingy. I don't care what the gatekeepers have to say, I've handled my share of griefers telling me to upgrade. I eventually did, but keep some classic looks around on purpose because it's fun to look retro once in a while.

I suppose this is why I sometimes like Open Sim better than SL. There's little of the avatar snobbery that anyone has to put up with here in SL IMO.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, JeromFranzic said:

There's little of the avatar snobbery that anyone has to put up with here in SL IMO.

because there are so few people, everyone is just excited to meet someone, anyone .. there isn't the social momentum for cultural standards to prevail.

Avatars as class symbols is baked into the platforms roots, should people start using OS, expect the same social rules to apply .. just with more piracy.

[elleevelyn]

37 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

IClassic avatars are dead.

LL ... are about to replace those with the new NUX avatar bodies

yes agree

when the NUX comes then for new people the classic avatar will be effectively dead (not listed on the sign up page)

in the same way that the very first classic avatars are dead to most people. Have to dig through the boxes in the Linden Free Bazaar on Stillman to obtain them. As I remember Torley Linden boxed them up and placed the box in the Bazaar

[Persephone Emerald]

There are pros and cons to using either a classic or a mesh avatar.

Using a mesh body and head is more complicated, more expensive, and creates more lag for yourself and others. If you're not interested in SL sex or being a gorgeous fashion doll, then you don't need to bother with mesh. ( Look for system, BOM, or Standard size mesh clothing for classic avatars. )

I prefer a mesh body and head, but I've had years to grow into this choice. For a long time I kept my standard head on a mesh body, because I liked my face the way it was. I also didn't update all my alts to mesh until a few years ago. 

Don't let anyone push you into a more expensive and more complicated avatar just because they think it would look better. You deserve to enjoy SL no matter what kind of avatar you want to use.

[Nalates Urriah]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's not snobbery.

Classic avatars are dead.

They have no on going support or development and haven't for years. LL replaced them with off the peg starter avatars years ago and are about to replace those with the new NUX avatar bodies. The only reason classic avatars will continue to exist at all is to support legacy content, aka, novelty under the guise of "history".

 

So that all said, if you chose a classic avatar, be under no illusion that it is a choice and people will have opinions on that. By wearing a classic avatar you are (perhaps inadvertently) culturally and socially choosing to align your avatar with disposable griefers and trolls. Rejecting assistance to update your avatar (at no cost) makes the choice crystal clear in the wider SL cultural context. No one has the time or energy to unpick your precise motivations. 

If you want to speed run becoming a social pariah, doggedly sticking with a classic avatar with all the attached cultural baggage, is absolutely how you do that.

You're that guy. On purpose. Expect to be treated as such.

Well... that is harsh... regrettably, it is pretty accurate.

[Coffee Pancake]

9 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Don't let anyone push you into a more expensive and more complicated avatar just because they think it would look better. You deserve to enjoy SL no matter what kind of avatar you want to use.

That's a fine sentiment, but it completely neglects the human, social and cultural elements. The deck is stacked with two decades of cumulative bias and our own cultural evolution, it can't be unstacked. If it really didn't matter, Mr NakedFreenis wouldn't be getting banned on sight and we would all be his friend.

How someone presents has a direct link to how they're treated socially and the quality of experiences on offer. 

Not having a good avatar is rude, just like it's rude to suck at warcraft (seriously, this video essay is absolutely on point and applies to us as much as WoW).