NextUP and other Gacha Replacements are still Gacha

[Pandora Nova]

Everyone who buys from these not-a-gachas is a fool. I said in an earlier thread that I was going to write and distribute the most unfair, despicable, script to undermine the legitimacy of these conveyors, and I did. I know for a fact that at least two of these not-a-gachas started from my script and that means you're definitely being taken for all you have.

One of the "fun" things it does, for example, is keeping track of on what item a customer stops most often, and then make that item much rarer to get people to play longer.

Do not trust these machines, you never know how the random selection works and there is no guarantee that there is even *a* chance for you to get what you want.

[Solar Legion]

Congratulations - you've admitted to willingly poisoning a market.

That's one way to remove trust.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I never trusted the gacha machines any way so I only played once to see if they really were what I thought. They were. Never again. I do not like the feeling of being ripped off without recourse. I don't like being manipulated and it will make you my enemy instantly. 

Is it possible to approve something someone has done but not condone it? Would it be appropriate to say thank you Hana?

Thank you, Hana.

[Silent Mistwalker]

P.S. The one time I did play was a long time ago. Like 2012 at Treasured Cove. I was so mad because not only did I not get what I wanted, I walked away empty handed and about 500Ls poorer. That may not seem like much but at the time it made all the difference in the world and I've been struggling to get a business going ever since. If it weren't for the fact that I love to build, I'd have given up years ago.

[Lucia Nightfire]

18 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

There are people who are addicted to sex.  Should LL remove all adult furniture/animations because 'they can't help themselves!'?

If they did, they would kiss an entire continent and a massive chunk of revenue and users goodbye.

[Lindal Kidd]

The only time I used Gacha machines was when it was apparent that pretty nearly any item would be one I'd like...like the gacha machines at one of my favorite shoe stores.

The ones that were loaded with all the pieces of an outfit, and had to be played over and over and over again if you wanted that outfit, were obvious ripoffs and I never used them.

I think these new "Next Up" machines are an improvement, but I can see there is still the potential for abuse. It's only been pushed back one step. In one sense, it's been made worse, because now you have to buy an item you don't want (the one on display) in order to find out if the next item up is the one you DO want.

[Chic Aeon]

17 hours ago, Quistess Alpha said:

I don't know if I want to hammer this out again, but it's October 2nd and there's still no actual change in policy. There was a notice that they were going to change the policy, Buuuuutttt. . . where is it?

Well the "policy" has changed to "no gachas except on the marktplace" BUT they also said there would be a one month grace period with warnings only. So we are in THAT part of the timeline -- as I see it anyway. 

[Blaise Glendevon]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:15 PM, Zia Underwood said:

If you came here thinking you'd change my mind or you had some clever argument I haven't heard before.  You're unfortunately wrong and you can sod off.  I'm not here to argue with you or try to convince anyone who thinks "Just don't buy them." is a suitable argument.  And I'm definitely not here to argue with people who are profiting off of gacha.  I'm here to communicate my displeasure with Linden Labs for doing a good thing than undermining it by allowing a loop hole like this to be exploited.

I don't actually care if you change your mind or not. I just want to let you know that your argument doesn't hold water. People are responsible for their own actions and since we are all adults using Second Life, our choices are our own.

Personally I'm annoyed that gotcha is no longer a thing. I enjoyed playing them and trading for them and reselling them on the marketplace. It was fun, and while I might have over spent a little occasionally, it was nothing like the life ruining situation that you hysterically insist it was.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Blaise Glendevon

[Claireschen Hesten]

I have seen a store at shop & hop using follow up or next up or whatever this new gacha is called, as far as I'm concerned that system is gacha pure and simple it displays a number but you don't know how much L$ you'll have to pump in to the machine before the number you want is displayed. D-lab's gacha replacement is better in at least it displays several numbers so you can decide if it's worth trying to get the number you want. Of the new gacha replacements that's the one I'd use if there was an item I wanted

[Jaylinbridges]

2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Well the "policy" has changed to "no gachas except on the marktplace" BUT they also said there would be a one month grace period with warnings only. So we are in THAT part of the timeline -- as I see it anyway

The grace period ended on Sept. 30.  Starting Oct. 1, AR's will be enforced if an old style Gacha is reported. 

Quote

 

Q:  Is it possible to extend the policy deadline?

A:  We are sorry that we are not able to further extend the policy deadline.  However, we have been able to extend the enforcement of the policy change an additional 30 days.  To be clear, starting on September 1 we expect gacha as a sales mechanism to cease. However we will start with warnings, and any enforcement of the policy as it would be applied on an account will not begin until after September 30.

 

 

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

The grace period ended on Sept. 30.  Starting Oct. 1, AR's will be enforced if an old style Gacha is reported. 

 

OK, TY for the correction.  Obviously this isn't a big issue to me LOL even though I retired all of my gachas.  It really doesn't seem that long ago even though it was a fairly boring summer :D.   

BUT did we REALLY expect all the gachas to disappear whenever even the grace period was up?  I certainly didn't.  Anyone here any time at all knows that ENFORCEMENT is not a big thing for The Lab. I doubt that will ever change -- or at least it doesn't seem to be even with the new owners in the mix.  

 

And yes, I agree that the MIEPON by D-Lab is the one I would (and have mostly for a test) play.   

 

Unless they start canceling accounts of creators that are not in compliance there will likely always be gachas.  Not "right" but not unexpected either.   So the folks that REALLY want the gachas to go away have the option of reporting (weekly if necessary) the folks that are breaking the policy.  I doubt that will make much difference, but complaining HERE isn't going to either.   

 

 

[Robin Kiyori]

It's kinda sad how some people have acted in this thread...

There serms to be a lack of understanding of just who and how these sorta machines can effect.

I am somone with problems impulsive/compulsive purchasing. I like to think I am fairly smart normally. But because of my neurodiverstites and depression. My brain chemistry seeks out ways to get that sweet serotonin and dopamine that it lacks.

Gacha and these "its totally not gacha you gais" machines are the worst for it. Worse then casinos for me. Because the dopamine hit is instant and "it doesn't cost that much".  Not even realising that it well. Adds up in the end until I snap put of it and realise a good chunk of my money is gone.

Can't just "not buy" because again, my brain wants those happy chemicals and that overides logic. I hate that this happens and I want it to stop. Sometimes I do manage to not spend on gachas and that makes me proud.

 

.. Until the mext time I feel restless or depressed and find a gacha that caters to my wants..

I am trying to get help. But in the meantime I try to do my best to keep it under control because I don't even have yhat much free money to spend.

I and others like me aren't bad people. Or stupid or lazy. We're.. vulnerable people who are getting targeted  because our brains work differently.

[Sammy Huntsman]

The only thing that bugs me about these new conveyor system, is that they are basically selling normal items with permissions that are similar to items you see in like an outfit from Blueberry. But now you gotta go through this whole extra thing just to buy it. I mean why waste your time building a new system, that is basically selling you normal sales items? Instead of actually just making more sales items. 

[Finite]

6 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

The only thing that bugs me about these new conveyor system, is that they are basically selling normal items with permissions that are similar to items you see in like an outfit from Blueberry. But now you gotta go through this whole extra thing just to buy it. I mean why waste your time building a new system, that is basically selling you normal sales items? Instead of actually just making more sales items. 

I haven't seen this yet. The ones I played so far have been  no copy/transfer however I've only played them from one merchant so far.

edit:typo

Edited October 4, 2021 by Finite

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Finite said:

I haven't seen this yet. The ones I played so far have been copy/transfer however I've only played them from one merchant so far.

I think that the rules state that items have to be no transfer, copy items. 

 

[Finite]

16 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I think that the rules state that items have to be no transfer, copy items. 

 

No you just to need to know what you are buying..

Q:  Could a “conveyor belt” system work?  

Example:  The vendor board selects an item at random and displays it for purchase.  That item remains on display and available for purchase until a buyer touches the vendor which locks it to them for purchase.  This allowed the buyer to purchase the item and deliver it.  The vendor unlocks and then selects another item at random and displays it for purchase and the cycle repeats.

Example image here and credit to Nadi Vemo for the approved vendor design.

A:  Yes, as long as the item currently being purchased is known. Note however that you should discontinue the use of the “gacha” term for these sales. 

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

34 minutes ago, Finite said:

I haven't seen this yet. The ones I played so far have been copy/transfer however I've only played them from one merchant so far.

I think you meant either "NO Copy & Transfer" or "Copy & NO Transfer".  No merchant would give you an item that is both Copy and Transfer because then you could sell as many copies of it as you wanted.

[Sammy Huntsman]

18 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I think you meant either "NO Copy & Transfer" or "Copy & NO Transfer".  No merchant would give you an item that is both Copy and Transfer because then you could sell as many copies of it as you wanted.

actually if you read, going forward, items are not allowed to be transferable. 

[Mollymews]

12 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

actually if you read, going forward, items are not allowed to be transferable. 

it depends on the context. When the item is known before purchase then it can be transferable

 

[MeadowDaydream]

There are several Second Life games. Where you pay L$ for something and then you have to actively play their game for you to even win back or obtain profit. But for that to happen could take IRL Days or Weeks for basically Chump Change.

 

For example in SL there is "Virtual Fishing" you can optionally pay for bait and you fish virtually. And that the fish are only worth 0.3 Lindens sometimes 0.6 Lindens sometimes more sometimes less. It's completely random. And these fishing events / spots are to increase Sim Traffic. Getting lindens from these places are always random and very time consuming.

 

Even something like Breedables kinda follow this "it's gambling" because Certain Breedables are worth more than others due to their RNG Genes, traits, and colors.

 

And the sad part about breedables is that they need to be rezzed 24/7 for them to age or progress and at times these breedables have 20+ even 100+ prims.

 

That's a lot and to add further insanity is that you need two of them to breed. So double the prim count and possibly the cost too. TBH I think Breedables are worse than Gachas.

 

Most of these Loot Boxes and Gacha bs could have easily been solved, if LL just said that Gachas must include the Odds of obtaining each product from Gacha Machines. And possibly provide a Pity Pull which some Gacha creators have implemented in their machines. Incase if someone had "Rotten Luck"  

 

If the odds were displayed on the Gacha machine maybe there would have never been a ban on them in the first place.

 

This is just an example. 

Commons 70%

Uncommons 23%

Rare 5%

Ultra Rare 2%

 

Some laws state that this is a requirement for loot box systems or in this case RNG items must show the odds / chances. 

 

I don't think it's fair to boot one RNG System such as gachas. When there are Breedables with RNG Traits and colors. For example I saw these cat breedables that look like they were made in 2004 "Primmy" "Dated" and some of these cost 5k or up to 15k just because they have a specific rare pattern, trait or whatever..

 

and you also have RNG SecondLife activities that reward you a fraction of a linden that requires hours of active play.

[Chic Aeon]

4 minutes ago, MeadowDaydream said:

could have easily been solved, if LL just said that Gachas must include the Odds of obtaining each product from Gacha Machines.

In some gacha events that was very evident as all you had to do was read the description on the vendor. Seller got to set the odds on their own machines BUT "savvy" shoppers would know what the odds were. Actually those events had some of the best odds. It was mandatory to have one rare for each 10 (if I remember correctly) regular items.  And anyone playing the machine 10 times got the exclusive (NEVER to be sold again) item.     While this was certainly more FAIR, I don't see how having that info solved anything.  

 

Maybe I am just missing the point :D.  

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

On 10/2/2021 at 7:15 PM, Zia Underwood said:

With the possibility of minors playing SL even allowing these things is to allow the chance at minors being allowed to gamble.

In that line of reasoning: Linden Lab better ban all those depraved adult regions too then. And all the products and venues related to tobacco, alcohol and other substances.

So the gachas are gone. Its loophole substitute machines are allowed. Time to set a new goal in life. Get Linden labs, as you call them, to ban all adult regions and all references to substances that may harm potential minors playing in SL.

Disclaimer: I am, of course, being sarcastic.

[Solar Legion]

I utterly missed that line in the OP Arduenn.

That singular line nullifies any argument the OP could've made ... and can make for the future.

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, MeadowDaydream said:

And the sad part about breedables is that they need to be rezzed 24/7 for them to age or progress and at times these breedables have 20+ even 100+ prims.

Only some of them need to be rezzed inworld.  KittCats can be kept in an online Cattery where they will continue to age and breed, though they do still require food there.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

actually if you read, going forward, items are not allowed to be transferable. 

I'm pretty sure the 'no transfer' part only applies to things like Fishing where the prizes you are getting are unknown and thus must be no transfer - and for some of the breedables, like the starter KittyCats where you only know some of the initial traits on the kitten you buy.

If you know exactly what you are buying, then it is really just like buying any other known item from a vendor and if the creator wants to sell it as Transferable, they may do so.  What may or may not be sold next out of the vendor does not play into that equation.