NextUP and other Gacha Replacements are still Gacha

[Prokofy Neva]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:15 PM, Zia Underwood said:

Can someone at LL please tell me why these Gacha substitutes are being allowed?  You guys did the right thing by banning them from SL now you're undermining your pro consumer deed by allowing content creators to exploit loopholes in your policy.  Bellatech's Nextup and creations like it are still Gacha they even say this in their promotional material.  As if flaunting the fact that they found a end run around LL TOS.  A customer is still playing for a blind pick even if they can see the next up item.  It just means that the item they are playing for is the one that is going to be revealed with the purchase not the one they are receiving.  It triggers the same dopamine responses for those neurodivergent people who are susceptible to these sorts of games.  People who fall prey to gambling.  Which is what Gacha is.  And unlike other games where they try to shrug off the gambling because there is no cash value to the items. In SL there is a cash value associated with the items being won as they can be resold.  With the possibility of minors playing SL even allowing these things is to allow the chance at minors being allowed to gamble.

Linden Labs did the right thing by banning the unregulated gacha gambling market.  Please put a stop to content creators who are looking to exploit the loopholes you left in the policy now.

So someone please come and tell me now that this person's concerns are just about a scripting job or eagerness to comply with rules and not some weird jihad against gachas for reasons that are not divulged.

[Sammy Huntsman]

8 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

So someone please come and tell me now that this person's concerns are just about a scripting job or eagerness to comply with rules and not some weird jihad against gachas for reasons that are not divulged.

I think this is just a weird, radical get rid of it all kinda post. There is really no substance to what she is saying and as you said. She has not given any rhyme or reason as to why they should get rid of it. The only thing she goes on about, is videos about lootboxes and that it's gamblign. And we have explained to her time and time again, that there is no elements of chance in these games. 

[Silent Mistwalker]

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

Except that TECHNICALLY you are paying for the pictured item -- you are NOT paying for what might come next.

yeah I get that..another way to game the public

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

yeah I get that..another way to game the public

No one is forcing you to play, so I don't see why you think it is predatory. I mean it would be predatory, if you were forced to play. But you still have a choice whether to buy from the system or not. So I don't see it as gaming the public. I feel like you have some very extremist views to stuff like this. 

[Jordyn McGregor]

Welcome to 2021...where no-one takes responsibility for their own actions anymore.

And for you @Rowan Amore...

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

No one is forcing you to play, so I don't see why you think it is predatory. I mean it would be predatory, if you were forced to play. But you still have a choice whether to buy from the system or not. So I don't see it as gaming the public. I feel like you have some very extremist views to stuff like this. 

Frankly, anyone who pays for an item or items they really don't want in order to get an item they do want, is foolish.  

As I said in the other thread about gachas, it's like going to Wal-Mart to buy a loaf of bread.  However, now they want you to purchase a watermelon, an oil filter and a set of luggage before allowing you to purchase the bread.  What kind of fool would do that?

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Rowan Amore

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Jordan Whitt said:

Welcome to 2021...where no-one takes responsibility for their own actions anymore.

And for you @Rowan Amore...

I mean yeah addictions exist and I feel bad for these people going through it. But an addiction is usually a way to escape reality, and then they just can't stop what they are doing. 

[Zia Underwood]

17 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

No one is forcing you to play, so I don't see why you think it is predatory. I mean it would be predatory, if you were forced to play. But you still have a choice whether to buy from the system or not. So I don't see it as gaming the public. I feel like you have some very extremist views to stuff like this. 

Because its designed yo entice you to play.  Thats why the cost is low.  It lures a player in.  It feels like a deal.  Than the person plays and as they play some people will lose of how much they are spending while being enticed to keep playing because they feel a win is right around the corner.  Thats just how the human brain works.  Thats why this form of monetization is so prevalent across the industry its why its used in gambling.   A small payment that makes it feel like a deal the offer of a big payout.  The dopamine rush from pulling the lever and our brains not really getting the whole statistical probabilities of the game theh are playing.  Especially in this unregulated market.  There is no guarantee and no way to even check if a store owner is even allowing a rare to be won. they could just as easily set the code to 0% chance or .00000000000001.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Zia Underwood

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Frankly, anyone who pays for an item or items they really don't want in order to get an item they do want, is foolish.  

As I said in the other thread about gachas, it's like going to Wal-Mart to buy a loaf of bread.  However, now they want you to purchase a watermelon, an oil filter and a set of luggage before slowing you to purchase the bread.  What kind of fool would so that?

 

 

I mean I wouldn't want to waste my money to get a loaf of bread. Lol 

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Because its designed yo entice you to play.  Thats why the cost is low.  It lures a player in.  It feels like a deal.  Than the person plays and as they play some people will lose of how much they are spending while being enticed to keep playing because they feel a win is right around the corner.  Thats just how the human brain works.  Thats why this form of monetization is so prevalent across the industry its why its used in gambling.   A small payment that makes it feel like a deal the offer of a big payout.  The dopamine rush from pulling the lever and our brains not really getting the whole statistical probabilities of the game theh are playing.  Especially in this wholly unregulated market.  There is no guarantee and no way to even check if a store owner is even allowing a rare to be won. they could just as easily set the code to 0% chance or .00000000000001.

I honestly give up with you. There is no gambling whatsoever with that machine. You buy what you see, and if it isn't what you want. You wait for your item to pop up. It's pretty simple really. But as I said I am done, I feel like you are just wanting to get rid of it, not for reasons you state. But you just don't like the system. I would call you a Karen. I don't like it, but I am not gonna selfishly make a stink about how we should get rid of it. 

[Jordyn McGregor]

Now for my serious answer.

I think its a stupid system.  Now you are going to have loads of people hogging space at events and never leaving, all waiting around for Item 3 to appear to on a machine and fighting over who gets it!

[Zia Underwood]

4 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

Welcome to 2021...where no-one takes responsibility for their own actions anymore.

And for you @Rowan Amore...

Willful ignorance in the face of scientific data is also alive and well in 2021 it would appear.  You're tired tropey response is hardly original.

[Kathlen Onyx]

7 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Because its designed yo entice you to play.  Thats why the cost is low.  It lures a player in. 

Just stay away from the merchants that have it. You wouldn't go into a neighborhood that sold crack on every corner and then complain that it was their fault you became a crack addict would you?  There are endless things in life that are designed to get you to play with their products.  Have you ever watched a commercial????

[Zia Underwood]

For a bunch of people who urge others to accept personal responsibility for their actions while engaging in harmful or unpleasant behaviors.  You are all showing a remarkable lack of self control.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Willful ignorance in the face of scientific data is also alive and well in 2021 it would appear.  You're tired tropey response is hardly original.

What scientific data, you just shared YouTube videos and links that have nothing to do with this system. With Lootboxes it's like getting a birthday gift, whereas gachas is basically a slot machine. You have not provided any data for the conveyor system. Which at large is literally just an overconvoluted sales mechanism. 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

19 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

No one is forcing you to play, so I don't see why you think it is predatory. I mean it would be predatory, if you were forced to play. But you still have a choice whether to buy from the system or not. So I don't see it as gaming the public. I feel like you have some very extremist views to stuff like this. 

I never said a damn thing about predatory... I think you are getting confused with all the replies that are not in favor. Because if we do not agree with you we are wrong?

[Jordyn McGregor]

Just now, Zia Underwood said:

Willful ignorance in the face of scientific data is also alive and well in 2021 it would appear.  You're tired tropey response is hardly original.

I agree with what @Sammy Huntsman said about addictions existing and do realise that it can be hard to fight against them.  After all, I am a ex-smoker and drinker who beat those addiction years ago.  I also have kept pumping lindens into a gacha machine telling myself "2 more pulls and then I will stop" and then "just 2 more" until I have spent thousands in the pursuit of an item I never got.  But that was my fault.  I chose to keep putting money in and pulling worthless items I did not want.  I only had myself to blame for it.  It was not the creator's fault that I chose not to stop sooner.  

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, Tarina Sewell said:

I never said a damn thing about predatory... I think you are getting confused with all the replies that are not in favor. Because if we do not agree with you we are wrong?

But that is the thing, you are wrong. Conveyor systems are not like Gachas at all, they are literally two different systems. One is a convoluted sales mechanism the other like a slot machine. Gacha is literally a slot machine all these conveyor systems are convoluted sales mechanisms. 

 

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

2 minutes ago, Jordan Whitt said:

I agree with what @Sammy Huntsman said about addictions existing and do realise that it can be hard to fight against them.  After all, I am a ex-smoker and drinker who beat those addiction years ago.  I also have kept pumping lindens into a gacha machine telling myself "2 more pulls and then I will stop" and then "just 2 more" until I have spent thousands in the pursuit of an item I never got.  But that was my fault.  I chose to keep putting money in and pulling worthless items I did not want.  I only had myself to blame for it.  It was not the creator's fault that I chose not to stop sooner.  

It is a ethical question, and I will not buy from a merchant that decides they want to use these systems. easy peasy

[Kathlen Onyx]

1 minute ago, Tarina Sewell said:

It is a ethical question, and I will not buy from a merchant that decides they want to use these systems. easy peasy

I don't think ANYONE here is saying that you can't make that decision for yourself. Speak with your wallet. If merchants find they are not making a profit then they will do away with them.

Like I said before ALL of SL is technically a ripoff. If SL closed down tomorrow no one would have anything to show for it. NADA!

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

6 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But that is the thing, you are wrong. Conveyor systems are not like Gachas at all, they are literally two different systems. One is a convoluted sales mechanism the other like a slot machine. Gacha is literally a slot machine all these conveyor systems are convoluted sales mechanisms. 

 

So it is preassigned then, to drop A only after, B,C,C,D,E,E,F,D (for example) does?  Because any "random" dropping of "A" only after the order (disorganized) is in fact "chance" or is that wrong to?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Tarina Sewell

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Tarina Sewell said:

So it is preassigned then, to drop A only after, B,C,C,D,E,E,F,D (for example) does?  Because any "random" dropping of "A" only after the order (undefined) is in fact "chance" or is that wrong to?

That is not chance, basically you pay for said item you see there or you don't. If your item doesn't come up you don't pay for it. It's not like gacha at all, where you would have to pull time and time again until you got what you wanted. Now if you see the object you want, you pay for it. And then the machine randomly changes the next item available for purchase. So yeah you are wrong, there is no ethical issue here. It's more of an annoying system, if you ask me. If I can't buy what I want, right away and have to wait for a bit for it to pop up. Why buy into it at all? 

[Jordyn McGregor]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

If I can't buy what I want, right away and have to wait for a bit for it to pop up. Why buy into it at all? 

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

21 minutes ago, Zia Underwood said:

Willful ignorance in the face of scientific data is also alive and well in 2021 it would appear.  You're tired tropey response is hardly original.

The data you are talking about is all legal data, based on lootboxes and gacha systems. I have not seen an article on the conveyor system. The EU was cracking down on Lootbox and Gacha system in video games, as it was promoting early age gambling. Conveyor systems don't promote that, they promote direct purchase in a very convoluted sales mechanism.