In world profile badges.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

That thing should never have been greenlit.

I use it all the time. 

I'm not a gamer, so maybe the implications of a badge are lost on me. Levelling up isnt possible in SL so im obviously missing something. It seems to be they would just be quick little visual indicators of your interest levels in something, which could spark convos. Shrug.

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Okay let me put it to you this way. SL is a very unique game, if you make it like the others then we would have to implement other systems. Since people will beg for it. Essentially making it more like Call of Duty Online, than a unique experience. I get why people want to do this. But we could add new stuff in other areas, and improve upon stuff that is already broken and jenky. Let's worry about fixing those issues, before we go and add something new, that will most likely break and well you know how people are, when functions break in SL. I just want SL to stay unique. The only similarity to an MMO is A the online aspect, and B the social interaction with actual people instead of NPCs 

 

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

They added the My Second Life page hoping to attract the Facebook crowd.  They implemented it and haven't touched it since.  I never use the feed but when it broke and people's years of pictures were lost, boy did they scream.  I have no clue whether that was ever fixed.  Not that I care but case in point.

 

1 hour ago, Solar Legion said:

That thing should never have been greenlit.

If there is one reason we can agree on as to why LL shouldn't even consider this suggestion; Their track record of doing things half assed and then leaving them that way.

We could very well end up with some sort of system that makes the whole experience worse.

[Phil Deakins]

Dunno if anyone mentioned it or not, but there used to be something similar that appeared in profiles. I've forgotten what it was called - 'reputation' maybe. LL did away with it.

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

3 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Dunno if anyone mentioned it or not, but there used to be something similar that appeared in profiles. I've forgotten what it was called - 'reputation' maybe. LL did away with it.

Yeah but that was a system based on other residents rating you. Which is pretty different. People neg rated to get people banned etc

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Okay let me put it to you this way. SL is a very unique game, if you make it like the others then we would have to implement other systems. Since people will beg for it. Essentially making it more like Call of Duty Online, than a unique experience. I get why people want to do this. But we could add new stuff in other areas, and improve upon stuff that is already broken and jenky. Let's worry about fixing those issues, before we go and add something new, that will most likely break and well you know how people are, when functions break in SL. I just want SL to stay unique. The only similarity to an MMO is A the online aspect, and B the social interaction with actual people instead of NPCs 

There is no slippery slope here. Badges being added doesn't mean we're getting other game systems.

We couldn't become CoD even if we wanted to, although from a technical perspective we absolutely should have systems that would allow CoD to built inside of SL, but that's never going to happen.

"Fixing the bugs" rather than do new things is also a flawed argument. If you have specific bugs, there is a JIRA and process to work though them. For the most part SL is what it is. Systems are added warts and all, till they get replaced with new systems.

Much of the jank about SL is a direct result to the way the systems have to work together. The only fix is the wholesale replacement with new systems, but there is a commitment to legacy content that sometimes means new systems require the old jank be added back in to prevent stuff breaking.

Just now, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Yeah but that was a system based on other residents rating you. Which is pretty different. People neg rated to get people banned etc

It also directly influenced the amount of stipend a person got, so obviously we gamed the fire out of it.

[Phil Deakins]

@Ingrid Ingersoll

Yes, it was a different concept. I just thought it was a similar sort of thing to what the OP suggested; i.e. some sort of merit thing in the profile.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Phil Deakins

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

It also directly influenced the amount of stipend a person got, so obviously we gamed the fire out of it.

Yeah we rode that pony 

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, Phil Deakins said:

Yes, it was a different concept. I just thought it was a similar sort of thing to what the OP suggested; i.e. some sort of merit thing in the profile.

The point of a badge system is that it would be gamed. Some would game it to get the badges and as a result do or discover new things in world. Some wouldn't care, but would end up getting dragged along for the ride anyway.

Any inferred reputation would be just that, inferred. No different from the inferred reputation that comes from looking though someone's group list .. or age .. or PIOF (which is objectively terrible).

If there are sufficient badges, then the only inference will end up being 'this person is here a lot / less / more than me' and it naturally becomes less relevant beyond personal goals. At the end of the day it's just a system to inspire action, nothing more.

If LL added a new badge to go with EEP right at the start, you can also be pretty sure way more of us would have tried it before it ended up feature frozen and maybe it would have turned out differently.

6 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Yeah we rode that pony 

Naked  ... 😳

[Garnet Psaltery]

I don't care if other people want to collect profile badges.  I don't, and I'd absolutely want the option not to have such crap one on my profile.

[Sid Nagy]

The fact that the badges would show in your profile, makes it all about bragging rights.
I guess if it would be about little shields you can hang on your wall or place above your fireplace it could be okay.

But for everyone to see in your profile or to see that you don't want to show them in your profile, is a nice guarantied drama source.
And that makes it IMHO a not so good idea.

On the other hand there are adults happy with a sticker after they have voted or got an injection.
Sigh.
I guess that is the same thing.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Ren Toxx]

Thing is, I see people with “patted / liked / whatever X times” titlers going around. It’s a badge. Do I pat them, or like them more for it? No, but I don’t automatically shun them either, and I certainly don’t threaten to leave SL if I see one.

I also see people badging themselves, more or less figuratively, with group tags, profile texts, picks, profile pictures, costumes or outfits or avatars; even with words and actions and attitudes. And yes, it’s a foregone conclusion that they want to wow others with it, never mind that most can’t admit it. And no, I’m not wowed by it myself—but again, I don’t feel threatened by it, to the extent of saying I’ll leave SL if I see one.

 

I call it being fine with whatever rocks other people’s boats, as long as it doesn’t harm anyone.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Ren Toxx

[Sid Nagy]

1 hour ago, Ren Toxx said:

Thing is, I see people with “patted / liked / whatever X times” titlers going around. It’s a badge. Do I pat them, or like them more for it? No, but I don’t automatically shun them either, and I certainly don’t threaten to leave SL if I see one.

Who is there to threaten?
If I ever come to that point of leaving or taking another long break, I will leave and that's it.
But who else than a few on my friends list would care? 

So I threaten nobody with my reaction on the first page. I just state a fact.
No drama please. I'm with my age way past the drama ages of high school.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Sid Nagy

[Ren Toxx]

12 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

Who is there to threaten?

As many as might feel threatened by the badges themselves, I guess?

I do get that you think they’re silly; in fact I’m agreeing with you on that, with different words. I’m just saying that if people left SL for everything that is silly one way or the other, regardless that it comes with an actual picture of a badge or not, then SL would have been utterly abandoned years ago. I’m not sure it would’ve even taken off in the first place.

Practically everyone does something silly—or that others see as such—, and much of it boils down to ‘badging’, no matter how subtly. I might not participate of it, but I don’t feel affected by it. It doesn’t corrupt my textures, nor empty my friends list or my L$ balance. So it doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of Second Life, that I should vow to abandon the platform entirely.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Ren Toxx

[Lewis Luminos]

14 hours ago, Eddy Vortex said:

Imagine if there's a badge for staying SL married for longer than two years, nobody would be qualified to get into such a club.

 

Raises hand - Madison and I celebrated our 10th anniversary a couple of months ago. There are plenty more too. In any case it would be an easy one to achieve, by partnering your own alt.

There could be a similar one - run a club that lasts more than 6 months. I'd win that one too .

9 minutes ago, Ren Toxx said:

As many as might feel threatened by the badges themselves, I guess?

I do get that you think they’re silly; in fact I’m agreeing with you on that, with different words. I’m just saying that if people left SL for everything that is silly one way or the other, regardless that it comes with an actual picture of a badge or not, then SL would have been utterly abandoned years ago. I’m not sure it would’ve even taken off in the first place.

Practically everyone does something silly—or that others see as such—, and much of it boils down to ‘badging’, no matter how subtly. I might not participate of it, but I don’t feel affected by it. It doesn’t corrupt my textures, nor empty my friends list or my L$ balance. So it doesn’t detract from my enjoyment of Second Life, that I should vow to abandon the platform entirely.

I agree with this. I probably wouldn't bother doing them, but it certainly wouldn't be any kind of deal breaker that would make me leave. It's such a trivial thing to ignore.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Lewis Luminos

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

4 hours ago, Sid Nagy said:

The fact that the badges would show in your profile, makes it all about bragging rights.

People brag in their profiles already. Would having a virtual badge make some people swagger? Probably. But to others it could be either just a fun goal to aspire to, or a way to easily  spot likeminded people in world without having to read all about their sl families or current biker gang affiliations in their profiles.

Anyway to each their own, I think making it optional would be good for people who have strongly negative feelings about it.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Ingrid Ingersoll

[Tari Landar]

5 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

"Fixing the bugs" rather than do new things is also a flawed argument. If you have specific bugs, there is a JIRA and process to work though them. For the most part SL is what it is. Systems are added warts and all, till they get replaced with new systems.

Much of the jank about SL is a direct result to the way the systems have to work together. The only fix is the wholesale replacement with new systems, but there is a commitment to legacy content that sometimes means new systems require the old jank be added back in to prevent stuff breaking.

It would be flawed logic if we were talking about a different group of folks, but we're not, we're talking about LL. They have a proven track record of being incapable of chewing gum, walking and talking on the phone all at once, despite that being exactly what they attempt to do all the time. As much as we can praise them for all they've done right, and I certainly do, I know others do too, there are some areas in which they fail, completely, every time they try. Adding new shiny pretties is one of those areas where they seem to fail more frequently than they succeed, especially as of late (EEP anyone?).  Now in this case if they failed adding it properly, it might not cause much damage at all, considering what it is they'd be adding. But, it would be wasted resources on a project that could have been used on another project, possibly even successfully. I doubt adding such a system would break much else, should it go awry, that's not actually what I would be concerned about. Although it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen, I have doubts that it would cause much if any damage. I just happen to think it's wasted resources better put elsewhere first.

As for the whole JIRA thing, they already know the flaws exist, making even more JIRAs about it solves nothing. There is no room on the JIRA for "fix the damn MP already". The MP in and of itself IS a system that needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, it has since its inception and no amount of pretending to fix it now will change the fact that it needs an overhaul. This is something that can, and should be, worked on, while we use what we currently have. It's a bit weird to think that it shouldn't be. An entirely new system can be created, tested, vetted properly, etc... without making it go live. Then it can go into an alpha or beta phase, where it gets tested more widely, before going entirely live. It can even run parallel (not connecting, obviously) to the existing MP once it does go live, temporarily, to ensure that it's working to its fullest potential and LL can get a wider range of feedback.  This is how new systems are added to things all the time, especially completely rebuilt ones. It can be done without breaking any other content too, with enough effort. LL already runs things similarly by using beta viewers while simultaneously having non-beta viewers. It's the same concept, just applied differently. 

But this goes back to their track record, as I already stated. I'm not shooting the idea down, I can see its merit, and I'm certain plenty would enjoy it. But implementing it would follow the same patterns of "lets appease them with something, so they ignore or forget about the other things they want/need fixed first" history. I think it's a good idea for LL to break that cycle, not perpetuate it, lol. Add the pretties, sure if there are extra folks/resources to do it, but don't take focus away from the areas that have needed work and CAN be worked on, in order to do it. 

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

I agree with you to an extent, but if all they do is fixes, thats not going to hold peoples interest.they need new festures

[Ayeleeon]

18 hours ago, Storii Darkheart said:

Why is everyone so adamant that just because you wouldn't like an achievement system that nobody would? 

Profile badges that don't affect your involvement in Second Life would make you leave? THAT is such a High School statement.

Will adding this to the code for SL affect my performance even if I opt out? 

[Tari Landar]

43 minutes ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

I agree with you to an extent, but if all they do is fixes, thats not going to hold peoples interest.they need new festures

They do need to add new features, but there are some things that should always take precedent, no matter what. Those are the things LL ignores, and it's a big part of why new ideas aren't received as well as they might otherwise.

Fixes are an ongoing thing for any project, in this case sl being the project I'm referring to. There will always be things that need fixed, things that can be improved upon, and cool/nifty/neat/awesome things they can add. I think there are a lot of great ideas floating around out there, LL just needs someone capable of prioritizing.  New content and features won't do sl any amount of good with retention when basic stuff keeps breaking, or not being addressed. It's not as if LL is a failing company or struggling for financing here, lol, they're pretty damn profitable. They just have to break their cycles, so they can create a new track history. People would have way more confidence in new features, even sl entirely, if that happened, imo anyway.

See, LL needs the people that have been around for ages and have experienced and seen their failures when they do succeed at something, because those folks will be the ones that help revive interest and provide feedback with the whole "see, they used to do things this, not so successful way, but now look at them, succeeding all over the place", and stuff. That's a big point of retention, and LL misses the mark by not listening as often as they should. 

Still love sl, and praise LL for all they have done, or I wouldn't still be here after all these years, lol. I just wish they'd improve in some areas that I personally think are key. But, I'm just a peon, like most folks, so what we have to say probably holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket, lol. 

 

[Rowan Amore]

For everyone participating in this thread...

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

They do need to add new features, but there are some things that should always take precedent, no matter what. Those are the things LL ignores, and it's a big part of why new ideas aren't received as well as they might otherwise.

Fixes are an ongoing thing for any project, in this case sl being the project I'm referring to. There will always be things that need fixed, things that can be improved upon, and cool/nifty/neat/awesome things they can add.

But that's not how LL develop anything.

They add a new feature and then that's that. Actual bugs and unintended functionality are not the same thing. Bugs get fixed and there is a JIRA for those. The rest often end up being exploited by creators, which basically makes them features. LL wont fix things in a way that breaks content.

2 hours ago, Tari Landar said:

New content and features won't do sl any amount of good with retention when basic stuff keeps breaking, or not being addressed.

If you have specific bugs in mind, please do file a JIRA for them - LL don't generally go looking for problems and are entirely JIRA driven. No JIRA, no fixes.

Some things are however less trivial and need a decent chunk of developer time assigned to them, LL group up related issues and make that into a larger job precisely so developers can focus on specific parts of the platform.

Other problems, like fixing search, need considerable research before committing to code and we hear nothing from them during this process. Doesn't mean it's not happening.

[Doris Johnsky]

[Prokofy Neva]

On 7/9/2021 at 1:11 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

A badge or award given to users (by LL) for meeting some criteria or participating in a special event (etc).

Badges are shown with a tiny graphic in the users profile and optionally come with a vanity title that could be shown in place of a group title. They would provide no additional benefit or perk aside from reputation ascribed to them by other users.

There would be some overlap with achievements,  obviously some people would decide to earn as many as possible (participation is a good thing), the intent isn't to make people grind out arbitrary goals that have no positive purpose relating to SL as a whole. Where possible, all badges should be achievable by all residents. Gaming some badges would be expected, the amount of social reputation a badge infers would no doubt reflect this.

Example badges could include (but not be limited to)

• Test Dummy - Participation in a Linden beta test / pile on.
• Performing, exhibiting or volunteering at a Linden event, such as SL birthdays. New badge every year for each of the roles.
• Explorer - Visit 500 regions.
• Bug Hunter - Report an accepted bug report on the JIRA
• Blogger - Users blog is featured by Strawberry on the SL blog.
• Forumite - Hit a certain post count on the forums.
• Good Citizen - A reverse badge everyone starts with and goes away if your account ever gets suspended. (controversial! 😂)
• Chatterbox - Say a million things in local chat.
• Fearless - Own a parcel of regular mainland for 6 months.
• Builder - Rez a few prims and link them together.
• Committed - Be a premium member for more than 2 years.
• Bellissarian - Have  the same Bellissaria Linden home for 6 months.
• Shopper - Buy something from the SLM that costs L$1 or more.
• Wizard - Use every LSL function in your own script at least once.
• Merchant - Sell something on the SLM.
• Summoned - Accept 1000 teleport offers.
• Ethereal - You logged in with the new mobile client, once.
• Barber - Bid a Linden bald.
• Contributor - Get a submitted feature into the official viewer.
• Barron - Become an estate manager.
• Zombie - Have your SL heath reduced to zero.
• etc etc etc .. the more the merrier !

Ideally badges should reward some action, shows or encourages participation in SL, or have subtle requirements - Eg Fearless would require a premium account.

Badges would come with a little fanfare in the viewer.

At heart they would be a bit of fun, and everyone would have the option to opt out of showing badges on their public profile.

No.

[ChinRey]

On 7/9/2021 at 7:11 PM, Coffee Pancake said:

Badges are shown with a tiny graphic in the users profile and optionally come with a vanity title that could be shown in place of a group title. They would provide no additional benefit or perk aside from reputation ascribed to them by other users.

Hey! Who gave you permission to read my mind???

I would have sued you for plagiarism if I hadn't stolen the idea myself. I once used to play a game that had a badge system exactly like this and it was very popular. People spent a lot of time in the game just to qualify for and earn silly and not-so-silly badges. You could display up to three of them on your profile page and there was a link to a separate page where people could see your whole collection.

Edited July 10, 2021 by ChinRey

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

You could display up to three of them on your profile page and there was a link to a separate page where people could see your whole collection.

That would work really well.