Posting Pics with Other People Recognizable

[Bagnu]

7 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

Well, I was editing my original response while you were posting this, but... your response has zero to do with what I wrote.  Nice try on the pivot though.

The two issues ARE related though. Keeping other people's privacy.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Bagnu

[Seicher Rae]

4 minutes ago, Orwar said:

    So potentially ruining a married man with pictures of him having sex with a prostitute is immoral, but selling sex to him is fine? I don't know, it feels like the moral compass will be about as helpful here as bringing a handful of sand for your trip to the desert in this topic. 

While I "get" what you said, I'm going to disagree a tad. The posting of the pictures is just gross, mean and immoral. Sex for sale? Not so much. I don't think prostitution or prostitutes are immoral, any more than those that give it away for a wedding ring, or who just give it away for free. Sex isn't immoral. But yeah, the particular moral compass in this instance is in a strong magnetic field.

[Seicher Rae]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

The two issues ARE related though. Keeping other people's privacy.

Keep going. Here's your shovel. 

[FairreLilette]

22 minutes ago, Orwar said:

 So potentially ruining a married man with pictures of him having sex with a prostitute is immoral, but selling sex to him is fine? I don't know, it feels like the moral compass will be about as helpful here as bringing a handful of sand for your trip to the desert in this topic. 

Speaking for myself, I think prostitution should be legalized in real life.  It is an archaic biblical belief and I do not think the church should be involved in personal relationships as it's none of their business not to mention the priests used to be the number one clients for brothels but I guess hypocrisy in a man's world is a moot issue from the get go.

It is a person's money and they should be able to spend it however they wish without stupid police nor "bible" involved here.  

As far as publishing photos of encounters, no, just no.  She's not a relationship private eye; she's an escort.  If she doesn't have discretion for her clients, she is disrespecting them.   

Edited August 27, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Bree Giffen]

You should ask the guy’s wife if it is okay to post the pic.

[Bagnu]

9 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

As far as publishing photos of encounters, no, just no.  She's not a relationship private eye; she's an escort.  If she doesn't have discretion for her clients, she is disrespecting them.   

I totally agree. I wanted to understand if the rules in SL are different than RL.  So I will always ask for consent. I have only ever posted pictures in Flickr with one client, and they have consented...as long as they are not named or have their name above their heads. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Bagnu

[Orwar]

13 minutes ago, Seicher Rae said:

While I "get" what you said, I'm going to disagree a tad. The posting of the pictures is just gross, mean and immoral. Sex for sale? Not so much. I don't think prostitution or prostitutes are immoral, any more than those that give it away for a wedding ring, or who just give it away for free. Sex isn't immoral. But yeah, the particular moral compass in this instance is in a strong magnetic field.

   Whether you or I think it's immoral, it's a criminal offense (either buying or selling, or both, depending on where you are) in large parts of the world. I don't really care about what other people do, it's their lives to do as they please with - but my main point was how the question appeared a bit like 'if you rob a bank with someone and then they steal your share at gunpoint and run off, were they being naughty?'. 

   It is a complicated issue, but not all complicated issues are interesting; this one particularly has too many factors that require moral mapping to figure out, and thus there is no 'correct' answer as there won't be any unanimous agreements on what is morally right or wrong on any one of those factors.

   I personally don't think sex is immoral, but commercialising it does come with a whole line of caveats. Like, how consensual is it really (again, my personal opinion is that it becomes a question of a mutually acceptable exchange, which is the basis of commerce, so, meh - but at the same time, if you're doing it because you have no other option, because your social security has failed you and put you in the street and you're choosing between starvation for yourself or your family, or if it's to feed a drug addiction, is it still actually consensual?).

   Generally I pretty much support a laissez faire approach out of a legal standpoint - but if we're to legalise drugs, for example, then take the effort of caring for the dolts who ruin their lives off of the tax payer. I can't pick which proverb to drop here; either the Swedish 'he who joins the game, will have to endure the game', or the good old 'can't have the cake and eat the cake'. In the question of whether prostitution should be legalised, well, yeah - the fewer laws, the better - but at the same time, we have to consider what things associated with prostitution that we as a society may have to put up with. Aside from the constant advertising we're already seeing around here.

[Silent Mistwalker]

44 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

If that was Alwin's intent, then I fully apologize to him. I suspect not though, from some of his other posts.

And yes, it would be betrayal. I have intention of that.

Um, did you mean you have no intention of doing that?

[Bagnu]

Just now, Silent Mistwalker said:

Um, did you mean you have no intention of doing that?

Sorry. Mistyping. I have NO intention of doing that!!!

[Luna Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I'm human, and sometimes need to clarify things. The rules can be different in SL than RL.

I had a feeling earlier this is really what you're trying to understand -- the difference between SL & RL. Some think SL is just a game, that we're simply cartoon characters, and so what we do and how it effects others should not matter, whereas others experience SL as an extension of their RL where feelings do matter.

It's not uncommon for someone to claim they experience SL as a game and as such circumvent the commitments to a RL spouse who might have their own perception of reality. In this scenario, they are claiming ultimate reality for themselves and all those they interact with while disregarding the feelings of their partner.

My belief, formed via studies in how human consciousness operates, is that you can't keep SL & RL totally separate, and that those who claim they can are almost always fooling themselves.

Anyway, is this why you're having trouble deciding whether it's okay to post these intimate pics? Are you thinking it would be okay if SL is just a cartoon world but not okay if the real feelings of people are involved and somebody could be hurt?

[Seicher Rae]

11 minutes ago, Orwar said:

stuff...

   It is a complicated issue, 

and more stuff...

   I personally don't think sex is immoral, but commercialising it does come with a whole line of caveats. Like, how consensual is it really

more stuff!

It is a good thing I don't believe in heaven/hell, because if sex is immoral then I'm in trouble.  I absolutely agree with you on the "whys" of the prostitution. I was speaking more of the broader (pun?) picture, sex for money (anything for money). For sure things get a lot more complicated when you look at individual situations.

That said, what Bagnu is discussing is repugnant in either lives. While SL and RL may be different, and while technically you can post any image from SL onto Flickr with no repercussions,  the whole issue is just really slimy. And as someone who very much mixes SL with RL then I don't think you can draw that fine a line about where one starts and stops. (Not that you did, Orwar, just speaking in general.)

[FairreLilette]

17 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

Sorry. Mistyping. I have NO intention of doing that!!!

Ha!  I read it as NO because the sentence prior said..."yes, it would be betrayal".  Me, needing new glasses as I am far-sighted, can't see near too well with old glasses that is.  

 

22 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Whether you or I think it's immoral, it's a criminal offense (either buying or selling, or both, depending on where you are) in large parts of the world. I don't really care about what other people do, it's their lives to do as they please with - but my main point was how the question appeared a bit like 'if you rob a bank with someone and then they steal your share at gunpoint and run off, were they being naughty?'. 

   It is a complicated issue, but not all complicated issues are interesting; this one particularly has too many factors that require moral mapping to figure out, and thus there is no 'correct' answer as there won't be any unanimous agreements on what is morally right or wrong on any one of those factors.

   I personally don't think sex is immoral, but commercialising it does come with a whole line of caveats. Like, how consensual is it really (again, my personal opinion is that it becomes a question of a mutually acceptable exchange, which is the basis of commerce, so, meh - but at the same time, if you're doing it because you have no other option, because your social security has failed you and put you in the street and you're choosing between starvation for yourself or your family, or if it's to feed a drug addiction, is it still actually consensual?).

   Generally I pretty much support a laissez faire approach out of a legal standpoint - but if we're to legalise drugs, for example, then take the effort of caring for the dolts who ruin their lives off of the tax payer. I can't pick which proverb to drop here; either the Swedish 'he who joins the game, will have to endure the game', or the good old 'can't have the cake and eat the cake'. In the question of whether prostitution should be legalised, well, yeah - the fewer laws, the better - but at the same time, we have to consider what things associated with prostitution that we as a society may have to put up with. Aside from the constant advertising we're already seeing around here.

Fair enough.   The drugs and porn in real life can be a very sad situation; many addicted to coke, although there are real life couples involved in porn.  Some of these porn stars make 5000 thousand dollars a day; the couples want to buy a house and then get out of the business.  The drugs associated with it are in all kinds of the "acting" trades.  Too much stuff to go over.  

Edited August 27, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Tari Landar]

First, let me say, there is no difference between here and rl, as far as "morals" are concerned, or the internal "right and wrong of it". There are legalities to what you share, how you share it, where you share it, which would fall under rules, but rules and morals aren't the same thing (and rarely ever actually match up across the board). At any rate, those are real people, whether you personally think of all people in sl as avs and pixels only, or not, the other party and any third party also involved, not to mention anyone you share that info/pic with...may not feel the same. It's still real people at the end of the day and I don't personally think moral compasses should ever go out the window regardless of one's take on "pixels vs real"

This thread does pose some questions, though, which may or may not sound judgmental

1-Why is is so important for you to share these encounters you have with men at all, I don't just mean in pictures, you've mentioned that you also talk about them with your friends, I'm curious as to why you do that?

2-Do you REALLY always get consent, or is that more of a "cover my ass to make it seem like I'm doing things right" kind of deal? Do you actually ask them for their consent before you share anything about the encounters with others? (we already know you don't on the latter half, you've discussed some aspects of your encounters on the forums, so it's more of a "you might want to rethink your answer to the first part" than it is a real question)

3-Do you consider any other party that might be harmed by your sharing? Again this goes above and beyond pictures.

Like I said before, I don't absolve a cheater of his cheating ways, in any way, shape, or form. But I am of the camp that holds two parties accountable for their actions in an encounter and the possible repercussions of said encounter. That also means I am of the camp that holds you responsible for what you do not only during, but after an encounter, on the same scale I hold the other person responsible.  I think that's my nice way of saying, both of you are hurting another human being and it's not nice. It's very easy for someone in your profession, in sl, to not pursue encounters with those who are, clearly, "taken"-it might get a bit muddy if there is no clarity of that status. But it would be disingenuous to say that the male in that encounter is solely responsible for the effects it may have on that third party. She would be well within her "right"(not really a good term there, just not sure what to use instead at the moment, sorry) to be pissed off as hell at both of you. Not just for pictures, but just in general sharing of information. You said you keep notecards and you share information and other stuff in other threads with your friends also in the profession. That raises some serious red flags for me when it comes to morals, ethics and what this is all really about. It also raises questions about intent. Which is why I said this is a wtf kind of thread. You;'re already doing questionable things, and you know it, which is why you question them (good on you for questioning, not knocking that part), but you're kinda putting your foot in your mouth every time you do it. These threads you're starting tend to flip flop back and forth a lot. When it seems like you might be asking a genuine question, you go and throw something in that indicates it's not really a genuine question at all, but puts your moral compass out there for the world to see and makes it *seem* like it's lacking a needle entirely. 

I'm not sure that makes sense, I'm attempting to put this as kindly as I can without sounding judgmental, when internally, I am judging quite harshly.  (I can fully admit I am a judgmental person when I feel the need to be, I just don't always express those judgments. I just happen to find it better to admit I judge then to pretend I don't) Your follow up posts aren't making it any easier when they make your intent seem to be hell bent to out others for their activities or, I dunno, maybe brag about your conquests to other people in a fashion that is, most definitely, more than likely, going to hurt someone else..I really don't know, but that makes me sad for all the third parties out there who might be hurt because you insist on getting your knickers knocked and then sharing info with ANYONE about it. That makes it seem far less like a profession of a sex worker and more like an intentional relationship/reputation wrecker who's proud of it.  I'm not saying you ARE, I'm saying that's what it sounds like, and it may well be that you're simply not good at articulating your thoughts. I'm ***** at it sometimes, so, I can see that, maybe, being a contributing factor here. 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Tari Landar

[Bagnu]

26 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Anyway, is this why you're having trouble deciding whether it's okay to post these intimate pics? Are you thinking it would be okay if SL is just a cartoon world but not okay if the real feelings of people are involved and somebody could be hurt?

Yes.

I'm not wondering anymore. And the serious pain I went through recently in SL started me in that direction.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Bagnu said:

30 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Anyway, is this why you're having trouble deciding whether it's okay to post these intimate pics? Are you thinking it would be okay if SL is just a cartoon world but not okay if the real feelings of people are involved and somebody could be hurt?

Yes.

I'm not wondering anymore. And the serious pain I went through recently in SL started me in that direction.

I'm sorry you had to deal with pain in SL -- most everybody has at some point when they try to sort out these types of issues.

I'm glad you're so willing to explore and bring your questions here for discussion, and I'm impressed how you are so concerned about not hurting others.

[Bagnu]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm sorry you had to deal with pain in SL -- most everybody has at some point when they try to sort out these types of issues.

I'm glad you're so willing to explore and bring your questions here for discussion, and I'm impressed how you are so concerned about not hurting others.

Thank you. Really that was the entire point of my question. I'm not in SL to hurt anyone.

[Bagnu]

Tari, I asked an honest question. It was about a better understanding of SL for me. 

Everyone judges everyone. It's a necessity for our survival. You articulate your judgements about me, and I respect that. 

[Amina Sopwith]

I'm of the view that when two people make a commitment to each other, that commitment is on them. If a committed man visits a sex worker, he's the one breaking a promise, not her. She's not responsible for his commitments and didn't make a pledge to anyone. So while I can't say it's honourable, I hold him absolutely 100% responsible for breaking his commitment. And obviously the same in reverse if a committed woman cheats, or someone in a same sex relationship. Your marriage/commitment is on you. If you found out your husband was propositioning women and the only reason he hadn't gone through with it was because they'd all said no, I think the damage would still be done.

Intimate photos of someone who doesn't know they're being photographed are an entirely different kettle of fish. It's such a bizarre question to ask, especially in the context of a sex worker and her clients, that it almost makes me wonder if this thread is just a way of enjoying the fact that some of the johns are attached.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

 

Intimate photos of someone who doesn't know they're being photographed are an entirely different kettle of fish. It's such a bizarre question to ask, especially in the context of a sex worker and her clients, that it almost makes me wonder if this thread is just a way of enjoying the fact that some of the johns are attached.

This and even if they do know, it's still not why they hired you.  Regardless of whether it's SL or RL, as far as sex workers are concerned, the answer should have been, NO..never ever post pics with clients even IF they approve.  If another potential client were to happen to see your photostream, they might think twice about using your services.  

[Bagnu]

34 minutes ago, Amina Sopwith said:

it almost makes me wonder if this thread is just a way of enjoying the fact that some of the johns are attached.

No. On that one absolutely not.

[Bagnu]

I have learned what I needed to know from the answers to my question. And this was a very, very serious question from my end. Thank you everyone for your replies.

[Seicher Rae]

47 minutes ago, Bagnu said:

I have learned what I needed to know from the answers to my question. And this was a very, very serious question from my end. Thank you everyone for your replies.

Oh good. Maybe the next moral quandary we'll be privy to is: Help! I'm a virtual sex worker. Should I tell my clients I have a computer virus????

[sarcasm font bold]

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Bagnu said:

I have learned what I needed to know from the answers to my question. And this was a very, very serious question from my end.

It's a very serious issue period even in instances where there is no money exchange BUT it's thought to be the start of a "romance" and then pictures of your avatar in all it's glory end up on FLICKR without your consent; and, again, doesn't have to include a money exchange where this could occur.  

Any way to add a feature that blocks others from taking pictures of your avatar?   Just asking "is there a way...?".  

Edited August 27, 2020 by FairreLilette

[Nick0678]

Just now, FairreLilette said:

Any way to add a feature that blocks others from taking pictures of your avatar?   Just asking "is there a way...?".  

Even if there was how would you stop someone from taking printscreens or capture video or even take a simple photo.

These things are not possible. Best thing to do is just play the game, don't act like an idiot if you are worried about such stuff and you will be fine.

[Janet Voxel]

1 hour ago, RowanMinx said:

This and even if they do know, it's still not why they hired you.  Regardless of whether it's SL or RL, as far as sex workers are concerned, the answer should have been, NO..never ever post pics with clients even IF they approve.  If another potential client were to happen to see your photostream, they might think twice about using your services.  

Unless it's blackmail RP, in which case it still wouldn't be kosher to post the pics somewhere like Flickr.