Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Extrude Ragu]

33 minutes ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Ah, the battle cry of a daily mail reading tory, brexit voter.

I can only laugh, because just 6 or 8 years ago I would have been on your side of the fence, lapping the kool aid right up

[Ashlyn Voir]

A lot of the non-black people protesting and supposedly showing their ‘support’ doesn’t seem genuine at all. This goes beyond police brutality. How many non-black people even really interact with black people outside of professional environments or on a real personal level? Most people don’t even interact in the game and let alone I doubt IRL. Just seems like something to make them feel less guilty for so many centuries of dissonance. 

[Extrude Ragu]

10 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

A lot of the non-black people protesting and supposedly showing their ‘support’ doesn’t seem genuine at all.

The phrase I think summises it best is a 'do-gooder'

[Mollymews]

11 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

One way of looking at it I suppose. It does take me back to a post a made a while back though, when I got slaughtered for mentioning a lack of visible or audible show of unity from the BLM quarter!

i tend to interpret what people do and/or say in the best possible way. Sometimes can be hard to do when it seems like we have nothing in common. But just keep on talking and see what comes of it. And when we do then we can often find a way thru. Sometimes this happens when we change to speaking/phrasing in a way that the other person can relate too

[Luna Bliss]

30 minutes ago, Dano Seale said:

Lol, Selene got hurt and only now it's suddenly "POC"! And I thought this thread was all about the "white voice" being heard? I mean, you're white right? Not going to check but I'd have a bet on at least one comment (being generous there) of yours being on every page of this 77!  If we did what you wanted and had just let "POC"'s voices be heard, this thread would be about 2 pages long! Pot and kettle sweetie. 😉

Are you that dense?  It doesn't matter what race I am. The 'voice' of people of color is saying, at this point in time, that they have been oppressed for 400 plus years in the US to varying degrees. And your posting pics of Natives looking all savage and killing whites, attempting to prove that Whites went through pain too with these egregious & distasteful pics, does not compare in the least to what POC have endured in this country for centuries, and it has zero place in the discussion.  And without even noting that these Natives were trying to protect the land Whites were stealing and so could hardly be thought ill of for defending themselves no less!!  Really, I've thought it before and I'm certain of it now -- you should not be posting on forums without supervision.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Selene Gregoire]

@Dano Seale You crossed a line dude, twice. I don't play that.  As for the apology, I'll consider it when I'm not ready to rip you 10 new ones.

[Beth Macbain]

39 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

How many non-black people even really interact with black people outside of professional environments or on a real personal level?

That’s difficult to answer in a way that doesn’t sound like the “Some of my best friends are...” kind of I’m-not-a-racist racism.

When I was in 8th grade, so about 35 years ago, a (Black) friend and I were walking back to the locker room after gym class to change. We must’ve been running or something because I said, “My knee hurts,” like I’d twisted it or something.

When we got to the locker room, she absolutely went ballistic on me. She was crying and fighting me, like physically attacking me. At first I thought she was playing around but she wasn’t. I had no idea what had happened. Things were fine, we’d been talking and laughing, and suddenly she was trying to kill me.

Some other girls got her to calm down a little and say what was wrong.

When I said, “My knee hurts,” she heard the big N word instead of “knee hurts”. 

I’ve never forgotten that - how angry and hurt she was. That word was used fast and loose by a lot of people in my little trashy redneck town, but I was a friend and not one of those people in her mind. She was hurt and betrayed by me. I corrected what she thought she heard, and it ended with a hug, but that has stayed with me since then. I never wanted anyone to feel the way she felt, and the more I’ve thought about it over the years, the more I realized how often she heard that word in that sh!tty little town. It’s sickening to me. I won’t even visit my hometown and that’s a big part of why. I’ve been told it’s changed. I don’t believe it.

I don’t know if that helps you to understand my feelings or not. I saw that as a kid, and I’ve never seen anything to make me think racism magically disappeared. This just feels to me like something in our collective conscience has been shaken. I don’t know why it was George Floyd’s death that did it - maybe how blatant it was? The cop knew and didn’t care that he was killing him AND being filmed? That there is no way even the most racist of racists can deny that his death was anything but lynching by knee?

I don’t know. I just know something feels different. I certainly don’t blame any black people who are suspicious - why wouldn’t you be? White people have never come through for the black community before, so of course you don’t trust us.

I’m still going to stand beside you, though, and try my best to listen and do whatever I can to help make real change happen.

 

[JanuarySwan]

1 hour ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

A lot of the non-black people protesting and supposedly showing their ‘support’ doesn’t seem genuine at all. This goes beyond police brutality. How many non-black people even really interact with black people outside of professional environments or on a real personal level? Most people don’t even interact in the game and let alone I doubt IRL. Just seems like something to make them feel less guilty for so many centuries of dissonance. 

I've had black friends since I was a kid, so did my parents.  In Adulthood, I've had a black bf, I'm white.  However, right now this is about the police because certain laws that the police have and the way they operate has to change.  Laws have to change.   

I am ashamed of the justice system but I did not create it.   I don't feel guilty for what this police officer did, so don't put that on me.   I feel like I am just born into the messes of this world and there are a lot besides you, a lot besides just you, Ashlyn which I have put aside so as not to muddy the waters of this issue.  My ancestors in Poland have been through many genocides, maybe you could look that up and see what that is about.  

I think you haven't put anything forth what you want to change or how you are going to go about affecting a change in all of this.  

There is an old saying, "change begins with you".  

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[JanuarySwan]

31 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

White people have never come through for the black community before, so of course you don’t trust us.

White people fought to help set the slaves free in the American Civil War and so much more.   White people marched with Martin Luther King.  

I can't believe you said that, Beth.  

I'm not sure you know what you said here.  

But, I have to agree that society or people do seem to slip back into the past with prejudices and not just this issue but towards women and others and many of the old patterns surface again, but it is mostly government and the people with the silver spoon born in their mouths that are exploiting others.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Mollymews]

6 hours ago, Dano Seale said:

Massacres have been done by and done to every Nation and race in the world. Your people were massacering each other long before the Europeans got there. None of them can be blamed on this privilege or that privilege, it's just what humans DO!

Dano, I see that you since addressed the other parts of your post which I haven't quoted.  I do want to tho address the question of what we can do after we DO

is another way to think about this.  The question for us is can we excuse our own behaviour on the basis of 1) Because is just what we DO.  2) Because everybody else does it, we do what we DO

if is not excusable then what ?

a thing about the relationship between indigenous people and the colonists of the new worlds, the Americas, Pacific, etc

colonists come to a new land, expand their lands thru either conquest or treaty.  Treaties that are not observed resulting in one party taking the land are breaches of contract law.  People who are into property rights and contract law as the basis for a free and just society, have this understanding. And on this basis they can see a way to resolve issues like these

we see this quite visibly in the USA with Supreme Court Justices like Elena Kagan,  Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh

[JanuarySwan]

@Ashlyn Voir  I quoted to you "change begins with you" and it begins with me too.  The quote is from Margaret Mead.  She is right.  

 

Children must be taught how to think, not what to think.

Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

measure success in terms of the contributions an individual makes to her fellow human beings.

Never ever depend on governments or institutions to solve any major problems. All social change comes from the passion of individuals.

The notion that we are products of our environment is our greatest sin; we are products of our choices.

Margaret Mead

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Ashlyn Voir]

36 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

That’s difficult to answer in a way that doesn’t sound like the “Some of my best friends are...” kind of I’m-not-a-racist racism.

When I was in 8th grade, so about 35 years ago, a (Black) friend and I were walking back to the locker room after gym class to change. We must’ve been running or something because I said, “My knee hurts,” like I’d twisted it or something.

When we got to the locker room, she absolutely went ballistic on me. She was crying and fighting me, like physically attacking me. At first I thought she was playing around but she wasn’t. I had no idea what had happened. Things were fine, we’d been talking and laughing, and suddenly she was trying to kill me.

Some other girls got her to calm down a little and say what was wrong.

When I said, “My knee hurts,” she heard the big N word instead of “knee hurts”. 

I’ve never forgotten that - how angry and hurt she was. That word was used fast and loose by a lot of people in my little trashy redneck town, but I was a friend and not one of those people in her mind. She was hurt and betrayed by me. I corrected what she thought she heard, and it ended with a hug, but that has stayed with me since then. I never wanted anyone to feel the way she felt, and the more I’ve thought about it over the years, the more I realized how often she heard that word in that sh!tty little town. It’s sickening to me. I won’t even visit my hometown and that’s a big part of why. I’ve been told it’s changed. I don’t believe it.

I don’t know if that helps you to understand my feelings or not. I saw that as a kid, and I’ve never seen anything to make me think racism magically disappeared. This just feels to me like something in our collective conscience has been shaken. I don’t know why it was George Floyd’s death that did it - maybe how blatant it was? The cop knew and didn’t care that he was killing him AND being filmed? That there is no way even the most racist of racists can deny that his death was anything but lynching by knee?

I don’t know. I just know something feels different. I certainly don’t blame any black people who are suspicious - why wouldn’t you be? White people have never come through for the black community before, so of course you don’t trust us.

I’m still going to stand beside you, though, and try my best to listen and do whatever I can to help make real change happen.

 

See, I really respect and like you a lot for that. For being able to not get upset for my feelings or my outlook on life. You’re a real ally to me. Someone who is able to see it for what it is and admit to that fact. So many people will make excuses as if they don’t benefit from white supremacy, but people who realize that and do make changes to themselves is who I really respect and you’ve earned mine. Thank you. 
 

 

18 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I've had black friends since I was a kid, so did my parents.  In Adulthood, I've had a black bf, I'm white.  However, right now this is about the police because certain laws that the police have and the way they operate has to change.  Laws have to change.   

I am ashamed of the justice system but I did not create it.   I don't feel guilty for what this police officer did, so don't put that on me.   I feel like I am just born into the messes of this world and there are a lot besides you, a lot besides just you, Ashlyn which I have put aside so as not to muddy the waters of this issue.  My ancestors in Poland have been through many genocides, maybe you could look that up and see what that is about.  

I think you haven't put anything forth what you want to change or how you are going to go about affecting a change in all of this.  

There is an old saying, "change begins with you".  

 

You can still have black friends and still be racist. You can have sex with one, date one, or what have you and still be racist. I slept with and had white boyfriends who were racist AF. So, that argument means nothing to me. This goes beyond police brutality. This is on some global stuff and I’m tired of people like you using straw man fallacies in order to shut us black people up because you don’t want to face the reality that you benefit and grew up in a white supremacist society. Even if you don’t directly see it, even if you claim you’re not like other white people blah blah blah, you still benefit from it. So, it changes nothing if you can’t admit to it. You’re a racist and I’m sure you’ll continue to be that way until you teach yourself to unlearn it. 

 

https://youtu.be/RPSwvZk4nPA

[JanuarySwan]

18 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

You can still have black friends and still be racist. You can have sex with one, date one, or what have you and still be racist. I slept with and had white boyfriends who were racist AF. So, that argument means nothing to me. This goes beyond police brutality. This is on some global stuff and I’m tired of people like you using straw man fallacies in order to shut us black people up because you don’t want to face the reality that you benefit and grew up in a white supremacist society. Even if you don’t directly see it, even if you claim you’re not like other white people blah blah blah, you still benefit from it. So, it changes nothing if you can’t admit to it. You’re a racist and I’m sure you’ll continue to be that way until you teach yourself to unlearn it. 

No, I'm not a racist.  I'm treating you as any poster on this board as I see you not bringing anything to the table here except being pessimistic and negative because you are being pessimistic and negative.

And, if you don't see it about being the police, well that is what it is now and laws are going to change, but you need to be a part of that change and not just be negative.  Say something of what you want to change and how to accomplish it.

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Beth Macbain]

5 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

White people faught to help set the slaves free in the American Civil War and so much more.   White people marched with Martin Luther King.  

Not exactly. Read up on what life was like for those freed slaves in the south after the Civil War and the Black Codes. Union soldiers stuck around for a minute then high-tailed it back up north because they didn’t really give a damn about blacks. The north, including Lincoln, were still racist as hell. It’s not so much that the the Union Army was concerned with freeing the slaves - they had no intention of letting the country get split in two and lose all that cotton, not to mention the territories both the north and south were laying claim to. The South fought for the right to own people. The North fought to not let the south secede. 

As for MLK, white people also killed him, among other things.

[JanuarySwan]

28 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Not exactly. Read up on what life was like for those freed slaves in the south after the Civil War and the Black Codes. Union soldiers stuck around for a minute then high-tailed it back up north because they didn’t really give a damn about blacks. The north, including Lincoln, were still racist as hell. It’s not so much that the the Union Army was concerned with freeing the slaves - they had no intention of letting the country get split in two and lose all that cotton, not to mention the territories both the north and south were laying claim to. The South fought for the right to own people. The North fought to not let the south secede. 

As for MLK, white people also killed him, among other things.

The main thing I will say about Lincoln is he should have freed the slaves a lot sooner than he did and ended the Civil War a lot sooner than he did. 

But, no, I will not be going down this road with you as I have a life and do not have time to read about "things" of which could be complete and total hyperbole with no proof whatsoever.  

As far as white people killed Martin Luther King.  We know that.  But, are you blaming all white people?  Am I supposed to blame all Germans for committing genocide against Polish people not only once but twice?  Not to mention, that currently right now as I am typing, Poland is in trouble for a third time and U.S. troops are being moved into Poland to help because of Germany and Russia yet again.  

How much time do you think I have in a day?   It's not enough to read a bunch of "stories" that is for sure, Beth.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Beth Macbain]

28 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

How much time do you think I have in a day?   It's not enough to read a bunch of "stories" that is for sure, Beth.

It’s history and facts. Sorry reading and educating yourself is such an inconvenience? 

It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow.

[Beth Macbain]

And some people certainly have no trouble with blaming all black people for looting...

[JanuarySwan]

11 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It’s history and facts. Sorry reading and educating yourself is such an inconvenience? 

It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow.

Facts by whom?  What are the credited sources?   Or are you going to give blogs and internet articles?

As to your last sentence, what?  Some of the things you say, Beth.  They're just polemic.  

I think you need to get off the internet Beth and do other things with your life because you tend to be racist.  Some of the things you say are that of a segregate.  

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

13 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Facts by whom?  What are the credited sources?   Or are you going to give blogs and internet articles?

As to your last sentence, what?  Some of the things you say, Beth.  They're just polemic.  

I think you need to get off the internet Beth and do other things with your life because you tend to be racist.  Some of the things you say are that of a segregate.  

You are just making stuff up now. 🙄

[JanuarySwan]

10 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

You are just making stuff up now. 🙄

No.

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Beth Macbain said:

It’s history and facts. Sorry reading and educating yourself is such an inconvenience? 

It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow.

Which facts, the ones that show (in his own biography) that he had a white girlfriend however broke it off with her due to racial connotations  i.e. how he would be perceived in the south preaching with a white girlfriend or the rumoured FBI memos (of recordings) of his infidelity and watching a person being raped (admittedly to be used to blackmail him)? No one is perfect no matter who it is or what their ideals are and facts and history on both sides are important to consider to gain a true perspective on a person or a movement.

The way America is going with trying to remove everything or anyone that had a hint of racial discrimination from history like it is doing with statues and military bases, I'm surprised they are not requesting something to be done with the FBI headquarters named after the same FBI chief that was so racist he was trying to get MLK to commit suicide and helped keep KKK members out of prison. Perhaps these people feel safer destroying statues and history rather than facing the FBI.

EDIT:

And no I am not racist and believe in the rights for everyone. Just wanted to clarify that no one is perfect even if it goes against their own beliefs and ideals.

EDIT 2:

Also forgot to add that perspective and historical perspective especially is needed when talking about issues such as slavery etc. Yes it was bad, and no I don't condone it, however from a historical point of view it was treated as acceptable based on religious beliefs. We have changed and evolved from that, however things are always done and justified by something and no re-writing history can change the fact that slavery was acceptable back then due to it being shown in the Bible as being accepted. We don't just burn the bible, we separate old beliefs from new better ones and continue a religious belief by overlooking the bad aspects that are historical and not present.

It's the same as my parents refuse to go to the movie theatre because they were brought up to believe that the movie theatre was worldly and therefore because of what the bible says of not indulging in worldly things they have never been, same with dancing, alcohol, smoking, not allowing tattoos etc. Different time, different place.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Luna Bliss]

I have to go beddy-bye but maybe we could discuss just what the word 'racist' means -- our own definition and the definition used by POC and other dedicated researchers on the topic. The common usage of word has actually changed in meaning over the last 50 years I discovered.

I mean, there are blatant racists that could be called 'bigots' actually, and there are people that are mildly racist either consciously or unconsciously. And there are people who simply have benefitted by living in a racist society (all us whites really), and so we have contributed by default to racism.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Lyssa Greymoon]

48 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

The way America is going with trying to remove everything or anyone that had a hint of racial discrimination from history like it is doing with statues and military bases,

These are men who took up arms against the United States to preserve slavery. That’s a little more than a “hint of racism”. There is no legitimate reason for them to be honored with statues or have military bases named after them.

[RavynHunter]

10 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think you need to get away from assessing more surface factors and go to the root of the cause if you want to propose a solution. When I tried to educate you on tests which prove the truths contained in the above paragraph, you said they were too general and not for you. But you must examine these experiments in the Social Sciences (Sociology and Psychology) to get a clear grasp of the root causes of oppression and power abuse within society. Our unconscious mind guides much of our behavior, and no amount of patching over on the surface via changes in rules will have a lasting or significant effect unless root causes are addressed.

Switching from Democrat to Republican policies would be one of those surface patches, a changing of rules, that would do very little. The effects of some sort of sensitivity training would have some, but minimal, effect.  The only solution would be to test those applying for police work to identify a power-hungry type of cop who gets a big ego-charge from dominating others, from the get-go. Weed this kind of person out from the very beginning. While we all categorize our world and too easily assign worth to the various categories of people the same way a power-hungry cop does, only some do this to the extreme and feel a need to punish those on the 'lower levels'. It is a pathology that could easily be identified as tests for authoritarian types of personalities already exist. 

I think maybe you aren't understanding what I said, or I am not being clear about, which is probably the case. The surface factor is concentrating on the result, not the cause, which is not what I am saying. I have been 'studying' this issue longer than this current issue, or any other issue in the past 20+ years, back to Rodney King. When I say the tests you directed me to were too general, it's because they are. I am not going to write a doctoral dissertation here on why I think that, but I could, and its based on far more research than that.

I am also not saying to switch anything to any party, I made that clear. What I said was the policies from the Democrat party clearly fails in this area. This is a starting point for addressing change. Also, if you have to train someone on sensitivity then that is a patch in itself. It has no value unless its to identify and terminate the employment of whomever has to be taught it.

Now that I am done defending myself, lol, I will agree wholeheartedly with you on testing to "identify..." Through my background and experience, existing personality tests are wonderful to test someones personality. That is used by many agencies, and it is the wrong approach. Personality refers to the combination of qualities, attitude and behavior, that makes a person distinct from others. Some examples being are they funny, shy, confident, lazy etc.  Instead, recruits need to be judged on Character, which refers to a set of moral and mental qualities and beliefs, that makes a person different from others. This includes traits that reveal themselves only in specific—and often uncommon—circumstances, traits like honesty, virtue, and kindliness.

One must possess this one trait, above all others, before being considered as a viable recruit. That trait is empathy. No other trait can compensate for empathy. Not one person who lacked empathy, in whose application process I was, and am actively involved in, got past the initial application. I don't care how fast they ran the mile and a half, how many push ups they did, how many years of armed forces they served, how many degrees they have. Without empathy, you don't work here. Period. I have watched those already employed have problem after problem, some serious, some not, and they all shared the lack of this very important trait. Conversely, the ones who excelled, gained community accolades, wrote unbiased reports, applied the law equally and used discretionary law as it was intended, all had empathy. But there is no standardized testing for empathy, and it is not easy to identify.

So I stand by my assertion that these issues need to be addressed from the top down. Policies and standards that put people in positions, such as police chief > assistant chief > command staff > department heads > recruiters, need to addressed and, like I stated in my previous posts, NOT based on political beliefs. That is the root. Fix the cause of these problems, and weeding out the bad ones won't be such a daunting task. But if people keep focusing on and dissecting the results of these bad policies, it will continue, because it always has.

I have had, and still have, success in unconventional methods because I know that accepted hiring methods are flawed, and I have known this for over two decades. Despite clear proof empathy is the main ingredient, convincing others falls on deaf ears. The common response is they have to follow department guidelines in hiring. Therein lies the problem. On top of that, trying to get backing from anyone outside of trained HR reps, or even those in the field of psychology, is next to impossible because most apply the wrong attributes to a profession they understandably don't understand. However, there has been a growing trend in this area the past few years, so there is hope for meaningful change. 

Thanks for educating me like you said by the way, it's no surprise to me that good ideas come from a lot of different places. Have a great day.

[Mollymews]

article about 3 police unions (San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles) wanting reforms that they believe will make things better for themselves and the public they serve

https://abc7.com/california-police-unions-unveil-plan-for-national-reform/6247207/