Are You Showing Support for Black Lives Matter in Second Life?

[Drayke Newall]

4 hours ago, Lyssa Greymoon said:

These are men who took up arms against the United States to preserve slavery. That’s a little more than a “hint of racism”.

Please, there is a little more to it than that and whilst I'm not suggesting they weren't racist or condone their treatment of them, they certainly didn't go to war due to racism or racist reasons. The North wasn't anti-slave like you seem to imply they simply didn't treat them like the South. That said, the North also didn't rely on slaves as much as the South as the North had factories, mils etc or were land owners and didn't need a large workforce or slave labour.

The south however, had large plantations that they needed (or so they believed) the slaves to farm for little to no money so as they were able to continue running the farms (shocker - it is still the case today just ask your average fruit picker). This is why they fought in the war as they thought they needed the slaves to ensure that their businesses were economically viable. That is to say, their very livelihood was being threatened by the removal of the slave system. The North's proposal to remove slavery would have financially ruined every single person farm wise in the south (and in many cases did) as they had become so reliant on the slavery system that they feared it was impossible to live without it despite it being a bad/evil system. That was why they went to war. Was the act of slavery racist? Yes, as only POC were slaves (most white people at the time -and yes some still do - had a superiority complex) and were mistreated etc, however they most certainly didn't go to war because they were racist they went to war due to threat of livelihood.

What would you do if the government all of a sudden said they are going to send all of your work over to China leaving you with no work or ability to earn money to support yourself? Who would you blame? Would you all of a sudden think badly of Chinese people or threaten your own government like we see in other countries like Zimbabwe? Do those white people in Zimbabwe under Mugabe's rule who were shot or forcibly removed from their properties that they owned for decades to be farmed and owned by POC suffer from White Privilege?

How about those soldiers in World War Two that were ostracised because of their racism towards Japanese people due to how they treated them in the concentration camps, malnourished, watching their friends mutilated or killed? Can you at all blame them for hating them or the race as a whole? Whilst we say that their racist thoughts were evil towards the Japanese, I would dare say when given the same circumstance, you would have a hard time not thinking the same as them. I know I'm not pious enough to rule out me thinking the same under those circumstances.

 People need to look at things with perspective and based on timeframe which is something that apparently is lacking in many people today.

Oddly, I bet you are also quite happy to use your iPhone or buy cheap products despite many considering (most cases it is) China's work system and their forced labour camps being comparable to slave labour. Does that make you racist or Apple? Racism is the treatment or dislike of people based on their colour, ideals etc it can not be associated with a system as a whole. Slavery or even servitude is a system the system isn't racist (however wrong) it is the people that in some cases perpetrated mistreatment due to race that are.

I'm not suggesting racism didn't exist back then, it did and was worse. Nor am I trying to justify it or condone it however, like I said in my post it was a different time and place and all needs to be taken with a large dose of perspective. There is no need or cause for any form of racism in this era, however there unfortunately always will be. The mere fact that America and the rest of the world have been fighting it for centuries should show this.

If we are talking genocide or invasion of native people however that is an other entirely different topic and also equally wrong/evil.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[JanuarySwan]

8 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I have to go beddy-bye but maybe we could discuss just what the word 'racist' means -- our own definition and the definition used by POC and other dedicated researchers on the topic. The common usage of word has actually changed in meaning over the last 50 years I discovered.

I mean, there are blatant racists that could be called 'bigots' actually, and there are people that are mildly racist either consciously or unconsciously. And there are people who simply have benefitted by living in a racist society (all us whites really), and so we have contributed by default to racism.

 

Beth, is most definitely engaging in separatist and segregate thinking with her statement regarding MLK.  Plus, other separatist responses.   As far as the segregate thinking she exhibits, I'd call it racist.  However, it is quite apparent she is a bully.  Racism does not only exist in the European ethnicity.  Blacks can be quite racist.

Do Beth or Ashlyn exhibit even one eyelash of concern for the Polish people here who were put in Ghettos?  I don't think either Beth nor Ashlyn have a clue about how hateful their posts really are towards others.   Not to mention it's quite apparent theirs is the only sorrow in the world.  No, it isn't.  I'm beginning to believe this BLM thing is a leftist separatist movement.  I am not a separatist.  I believe in equal justice for all among other things.  But, most definitely, I do not get involved in separatists groups, and, if that is what this BLM org is, I don't want to be involved.

This is what Beth said to make it more clear as the quote below shows my name also - however this is only from Beth.

Beth MacBain said:

"It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow."

 

 

 

9 hours ago, JanuarySwan said:

9 hours ago, Beth Macbain said:

It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Ashlyn Voir]

41 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Beth, is most definitely engaging in separatist and segregate thinking with her statement regarding MLK.  Plus, other separatist responses.   As far as the segregate thinking she exhibits, I'd call it racist.  However, it is quite apparent she is a bully.  Racism does not only exist in the European ethnicity.  Blacks can be quite racist.

Do Beth or Ashlyn exhibit even one eyelash of concern for the Polish people here who were put in Ghettos?  I don't think either Beth nor Ashlyn have a clue about how hateful their posts really are towards others.   Not to mention it's quite apparent theirs is the only sorrow in the world.  No, it isn't.  I'm beginning to believe this BLM thing is a leftist separatist movement.  I am not a separatist.  I believe in equal justice for all among other things.  But, most definitely, I do not get involved in separatists groups, and, if that is what this BLM org is, I don't want to be involved.

This is what Beth said to make it more clear as the quote below shows my name also - however this is only from Beth.

Beth MacBain said:

"It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow."

 

 

 

 

Continue denying being a racist and making excuses then. 

 

[JanuarySwan]

4 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

because of their racism towards Japanese people due to how they treated them in the concentration camps, malnourished, watching their friends mutilated or killed? Can you at all blame them for hating them or the race as a whole? Whilst we say that their racist thoughts were evil towards the Japanese, I

Er, that happened to the Polish people first after Hitler invaded Poland and stole half of Poland's property, artworks and music and put the Jewish Polish people in Ghettos and starved them to death before taking them to the gas chamber.   Poland is thought to be a poor country, it isn't and wasn't before Hitler and it's not today.  The polish Classical music and other Polish belongings were quite valuable and most definitely not Hitler's property.   Much of the Classical music Hitler stole from Poland is lost today, however.  Some has been found, some.   So, regarding BLM, what am I supposed to do for my ancestors and family, join Polish Lives Matter?   Italy and Japan helped Hitler and the Nazi's perform their atrocities.  

Japan made their choice when they did joined this:

Tripartite Pact, agreement concluded by Germany, Italy, and Japan on September 27, 1940, one year after the start of World War II. It created a defense alliance between the countries and was largely intended to deter the United States from entering the conflict.

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

47 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

I am not a separatist.  I believe in equal justice for all among other things.

You are totally right that many Whites have helped Blacks in the past, and are doing so now. Some Whites even lost their life in these efforts, in the Civil Rights struggles of the 60's, and in the Civil War. These are facts, and we should be proud of those who cared about their fellow humans and sought justice.

However, we should be wary of those who are today using the above facts to insist that there is no discrimination against Blacks today. People do indeed point back to MLK in attempt to make themselves feel good, to assuage themselves of any racism or prejudice they might have perpetuated themselves today. They say "see...us Whites did some good back there by supporting MLK or fighting for Black freedom in Civil War, so we're not bad, we have no guilt".

I'm not saying you are a racist in the way you are defining the word, January - in fact I know from our discussions on the forum and in private that you are not. I'm just pointing to some dynamics that are occurring today.

[JanuarySwan]

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You are totally right that many Whites have helped Blacks in the past, and are doing so now. Some Whites even lost their life in these efforts, in the Civil Rights struggles of the 60's, and in the Civil War. These are facts, and we should be proud of those who cared about their fellow humans and sought justice.

Well, I am for equal justice for all but it appears to me others in this thread could care less about others.  It's all about them.  That's what separatists groups and segregate thinking do.  Segregate thinking nor living does not only come from white people.  

There used to be all kinds of some towns such as Polish Town, Italian Town, Irish Town, etc in New York.  But, it was mostly language barriers that separated us for many, many decades.  

People live and grow up in multi-ethnic communities now as we have exceeded many language barriers.

But, I still see this as a separatist group and a separatist group without a Spokesperson.

MLK was not a separatist.  Neither am I.

This BLM is sounding more and more like a radical leftist separatist group that cares nothing for others outside "their own".  That's not my thing, man.  

Maybe I should join Native Lives Matter or Polish Lives Matter, let me think about it for a while.  Do you get my drift here?  

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Luna Bliss]

26 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

So, regarding BLM, what am I supposed to do for my ancestors and family, join Polish Lives Matter?   Italy and Japan helped Hitler and the Nazi's perform their atrocities.  

I think, at this time, we are simply focusing on the trauma that Blacks have endured in this country over the last 400 plus years. This is because the incidents against Blacks by police have escalated in recent months, and we just witnessed a horrific murder on camera. 

* This does not mean we don't care about other disadvantaged groups. In fact, if you investigate the 3 founders of BLM you will see they care about many other types of people who are discriminated against.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Well, I am for equal justice for all but it appears to me others in this thread could care less about others.  It's all about them.  That's what separatists groups and segregate thinking do.  Segregate thinking nor living does not only come from white people.  

Their used to be all kinds of some towns such as Polish Town, Italian Town, Irish Town, etc in New York.  But, it was mostly language barriers that separated us for many, many decades.  

People live and grow up in multi-ethnic communities now as we have exceeded many language barriers.

But, I still see this as a separatist group and a separatist group without a Spokesperson.

MLK was not a separatist.  Neither am I.

This BLM is sounding more and more like a radical leftist separatist group that cares nothing for others outside "their own".  That's not my thing, man. 

I wouldn't judge the BLM movement by the people on this thread. Go to their website and read what they're about, visit other forums/ discussions. If you're basing your opinion on just this forum you'll only get a biased interpretation of BLM.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

Beth, is most definitely engaging in separatist and segregate thinking with her statement regarding MLK.  Plus, other separatist responses.   As far as the segregate thinking she exhibits, I'd call it racist.  However, it is quite apparent she is a bully.  Racism does not only exist in the European ethnicity.  Blacks can be quite racist.

Do Beth or Ashlyn exhibit even one eyelash of concern for the Polish people here who were put in Ghettos?  I don't think either Beth nor Ashlyn have a clue about how hateful their posts really are towards others.   Not to mention it's quite apparent theirs is the only sorrow in the world.  No, it isn't.  I'm beginning to believe this BLM thing is a leftist separatist movement.  I am not a separatist.  I believe in equal justice for all among other things.  But, most definitely, I do not get involved in separatists groups, and, if that is what this BLM org is, I don't want to be involved.

This is what Beth said to make it more clear as the quote below shows my name also - however this is only from Beth.

Beth MacBain said:

"It says something when white people won’t even let the black community have MLK without having to make sure white people get some credit somehow."

 

 

 

 

Wow. I'm pretty sure Beth is not the racist here, but you might want to take a look in the mirror. 

[JanuarySwan]

16 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I wouldn't judge the BLM movement by the people on this thread. Go to their website and read what they're about, visit other forums/ discussions. If you're basing your opinion on just this forum you'll only get a biased interpretation of BLM.

Yeah, but do you get my drift here?  How many _________ lives matter groups do I need to support?  Native Lives Matter, Hispanic Lives Matter, Polish People Matter.  How many?  

This is too separatist for me.  We all have endured hardships and those matter too.  

There are black supremacy groups if people didn't know that.  I'm not saying this is a supremacy group but be careful what you divide.  This country has overcome many barriers in many states except possibly the deep south.   I don't want to see what we've overcome come down in an avalanche of a divide.  

All people in this country have been exploited by the police.   We have to overcome it as one; this group is biased in nature.  

[Luna Bliss]

18 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

All people in this country have been exploited by the police.   We have to overcome it as one; this group is biased in nature.  

Why would it be biased to focus on one group at a time, or have it be in the forefront for awhile?  The focus is on Blacks now in a big way, true. This can feel like a lot of pressure, I know, especially with all the intense protests. If you look at the stats though you will see that POC are murdered by the police more than Whites are. So I'm fine with focusing on them for now until we stop murdering them at such a high rate.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, JanuarySwan said:

Er, that happened to the Polish people first after Hitler invaded Poland and stole half of Poland's property, artworks and music and put the Jewish Polish people in Ghettos and starved them to death before taking them to the gas chamber.   Poland is thought to be a poor country, it isn't and wasn't before Hitler and it's not today.

Yep, am aware of that, just wanted to make it a little more focused on how the average American felt back then with the Japanese seeing as the BLM movement is centered in the states.

EDIT

Also agree with you on all your points regarding the separatist attitude BLM brings. Racism as a whole needs to be destroyed in one full swoop. If we focus on one group at a time like Luna suggests, it is going to take another 400 years.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[JanuarySwan]

15 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you look at the stats though you will see that POC are murdered by the police more than Whites are. 

Actually, more Native American's are murdered by the police.  But, I don't want to go around and around in circles with you on this.  

[Ashlyn Voir]

4 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

Actually, more Native American's are murdered by the police.  But, I don't want to go around and around in circles with you on this.  

Are you sure you’re not this lady? 
 

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If you look at the stats though you will see that POC are murdered by the police more than Whites are. 

Actually, more Native American's are murdered by the police.  But, I don't want to go around and around in circles with you on this.  

I said POC (people of color), and that includes Natives.

That doesn't change the fact that we've had a rash of murders against Blacks recently, and viewed a horrific one on camera, hence why I understand the focus on Blacks now.  Plus, Blacks have pretty much been the latrine of America since slavery times, the group at the very bottom in terms of societal acceptance.  So I don't mind the focus on them now, and it doesn't mean I don't care about Natives at all.

[JanuarySwan]

12 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

Yep, am aware of that, just wanted to make it a little more focused on how the average American felt back then with the Japanese seeing as the BLM movement is centered in the states.

The Japanese were wanted for war crimes at the time, and key words "at the time".   The Polish people had committed no war crimes when they were starved and murdered by the Japanese.  

However, Russia is messing with Poland right now as we speak yet again.  Trump is moving troops in too help right now and Germany is crying but we'll be left unable to defend ourselves against Russia.  Russia messed with Poland in WWII too.  Not much is talked about it, but Russia did.

In short, this world has many problems of oppression.

However, in the states we used to be divided due to language barriers.  Many of us live in multi-ethnic communities now.  I don't want to be involved in the divides of this.

All people's need to fight the corruption and favoritism here of and from the United States Police Force and all people who have been abused by it need to join together. 

But, I don't want to keep repeating myself on that either.   

Edited June 15, 2020 by JanuarySwan

[Ashlyn Voir]

At the end of the day, it’s not my job or any black persons job to teach white people how to admit they’re racist and grew up in a white supremacist society that benefits them to this very day. And, ultimately change to realize this is what it is and grow from it. So, if you want to continue being a racist and living in denial for the rest of your life because it makes YOU feel COMFORTABLE, then that’s on you. 

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Are you sure you’re not this lady? 

lol is her real name Karen?

[Drayke Newall]

Just now, JanuarySwan said:

The Japanese were wanted for war crimes at the time, and key words "at the time".  

However, Russia is messing with Poland right now as we speak yet again.  Trump is moving troops in too help right now and Germany is crying but we'll be left unable to defend ourselves against Russia.  Russia messed with Poland in WWII too.  Not much is talked about it, but Russia did.

In short, this world has many problems of oppression.

However, in the states we used to be divided due to language barriers.  Many of us live in multi-ethnic communities now.  I don't want to be involved in the divides of this.

All people's need to fight the corruption and favoritism here of and from the United States Police Force and all people who have been abused by it need to join together. 

But, I don't want to keep repeating myself on that either.   

Agree. Sorry stealth edited my post whilst you were probably writing yours. The edit basically says what you said about doing it all in one go.

[Drayke Newall]

11 minutes ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

At the end of the day, it’s not my job or any black persons job to teach white people how to admit they’re racist and grew up in a white supremacist society that benefits them to this very day. And, ultimately change to realize this is what it is and grow from it. So, if you want to continue being a racist and living in denial for the rest of your life because it makes YOU feel COMFORTABLE, then that’s on you. 

I am sorry, I never grew up in a white supremacist society and certainly don't have any better benefits than other races where I am from however like usual the America liberal agenda and now this BLM movement spreads to other countries like a disease even though those countries are nothing like America or have its racial problems. So before you start pointing your finger at everyone that doesn't agree with your position, perhaps think about the fact that there are other countries outside your bubble over in America equally affected by this BLM mess and also other races besides black that are equally affected by racism INCLUDING white people.

Everyone needs to remove racism entirely for EVERYONE not just one group or one at a time.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Drayke Newall

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, JanuarySwan said:

However, in the states we used to be divided due to language barriers.  Many of us live in multi-ethnic communities now.  I don't want to be involved in the divides of this.

All people's need to fight the corruption and favoritism here of and from the United States Police Force and all people who have been abused by it need to join together. 

But, I don't want to keep repeating myself on that either.

I'm joined with the struggles of all oppressed groups, and many of those involved in BLM also care about other disenfranchised groups. I'll support BLM in any way I can, and at the end of this year send my usual check to St. Joseph's School For Indians, helping Native kids get an education.   https://give.stjo.org/site/Donation2?df_id=8622&mfc_pref=T&8622.donation=form1&s_src=Donate_ppc_MS

I'm sorry, I just don't get why you need to trash a group that is focusing on their concerns presently.  Are women who participate in Take Back The Night marches, attempting to bring awareness to society so we can end the violence against women, also "separatists"  and deserving of the trashing you are giving out toward BLM?  I mean sure, contribute or not, participate or not, but why trash them?

If you go to the About section on the BLM website you will better understand what they are about:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/

Edited June 15, 2020 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

4 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

like usual the America liberal agenda and now this BLM movement spreads to other countries like a disease even though those countries are nothing like America or have its racial problems.

lol "American liberal agenda"?   We are a small bump away from becoming a fascist country.

[Ashlyn Voir]

7 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

I am sorry, I never grew up in a white supremacist society and certainly don't have any better benefits than other races where I am from however like usual the America liberal agenda and now this BLM movement spreads to other countries like a disease even though those countries are nothing like America or have its racial problems. So before you start pointing your finger at everyone that doesn't agree with your position, perhaps think about the fact that there are other countries outside your bubble over in America equally affected by this BLM mess and also other races besides black that are equally affected by racism INCLUDING white people.

Everyone needs to remove racism entirely for EVERYONE not just one group or one at a time.

Damn yall are so blind and racist lol

 

 

 

 

#yesallwhitepeople

Edited June 15, 2020 by Ashlyn Voir

[JanuarySwan]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm joined with the struggles of all oppressed groups, and many of those involved in BLM also care about other disenfranchised groups. I'll support BLM in any way I can, and at the end of this year send my usual check to St. Joseph's School For Indians, helping Native kids get an education.   https://give.stjo.org/site/Donation2?df_id=8622&mfc_pref=T&8622.donation=form1&s_src=Donate_ppc_MS

I'm sorry, I just don't get why you need to trash a group that is focusing on their concerns presently.  Are women who participate in Take Back The Night marches, attempting to bring awareness to and end the violence against women, also "separatists"  and deserving of the trashing you are giving out toward BLM?  I mean sure, contribute or not, participate or not, but why trash them?

If you go to the About section on the BLM website you will better understand what they are about:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/

Luna, I've said enough.  I feel this is and may cause divides and all the progress we've made to become multi-ethnic communities could come down like an avalanche.  Why, because other peoples have been hurt too and thus this, in it's nature, excludes those who have also been hurt or abused by the police and is shoving others under the carpet.

Please continue to debate the topic as you see fit but I want to bow out of it.  

[Drayke Newall]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

lol "American liberal agenda"?   We are a small bump away from becoming a fascist country.

Just because you are run that way doesn't mean liberal policies don't get passed.

1 minute ago, Ashlyn Voir said:

Damn yall are so blind and racist lol

Oh, please enlighten me as to how I am racist?