Creators - Please stop boxing up demos on MP or built-in vendor

[Levidian]

Creators - please stop boxing up demos posted to MP or sold via the built-in vendor system. 

Caspervend and other vendor systems is ok, because the demo box goes to objects by default as a box alone and not a new folder, so rezzing it makes sense.  But when you buy from MP or in-world built in vendor, it puts the contents into its own folder already, the box is unnecessary. It's not only an extra step, and clutters inventory needlessly, but also requires you rez rights to rez it (or even worse, forcing you to attach it to your body one at a time).

[Branesergen]

1st world problems amirite??

[Bree Giffen]

Amen @Levidian

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Levidian said:

Creators - please stop boxing up demos posted to MP or sold via the built-in vendor system.

I understand your concern but unfortunately there is a problem with MP after they launched VMM (Viewer-Managed Marketplace).

With VMM every single item for every single MP listing is still in your inventory, in a folder hidden in the regular inventory listing and only vieweable in an even cruder and more primitive separate window. With a few hundred listings, each with a handful of unboxed items, VMM transforms into UMM (Un-Manageable Marketplace).

[Pixieplumb Flanagan]

Caspervend, which is used by more merchants than not, requires that all items be boxed.  I know, it's the end of the world.   s/off

[Solar Legion]

To add to the prior responses: The box also serves as a self contained backup for copy/mod items in the event that you manage to bungle something horribly. After all, not everyone bothers to make a copy of an individual item before they start experimenting on it.

You don't like the boxes - good for you! They serve an actual purpose for the average user.

[Pamela Galli]

When someone says x is missing from the box they just bought, I can check it and tell them it is the third thing in the box contents. There is no way for x to disappear unless they find it and delete it. With folders you can accidentally move or delete or rearrange something when rummaging around inventory. But the box is forever.

[Chic Aeon]

I am with the OP on this one. I hate boxed items for the most part. I seldom box anything of mine. You either buy a copy from the store OR you get it from the marketplace - or you buy the CONTENTS of the vendor and get things ready to us in a folder. Even large items with many parts come in a folder ready to use. 

I do understand why retailers use vendor systems and boxes but I spent a lot of time unboxing and then unboxing the box and then UNBOXING THE BOX AGAIN.  It does get tiring.   Also when things are in a box you can't really SEE what is inside that box (sometimes a biggie). 

 

 I have noted several creators showing lovely Home and Garden items in a setting  (and one time it was a pose pack) that stated "complete fatpack" when in actuality if you found and read the OH so tiny print -- only a few items shown were for sale  in the not inexpensive "collection" == and in the case of the poses, the props had to be purchased from OTHER retailers (OMG?)  A pose prop is supposed to be a pose prop not a pose only.   So "hiding" things in a box is sometimes used.   Certainly the majority of folks are honest, but not everyone. I like to SEE what I am getting if I can.  

[Omega Tunwarm]

The only thing I don't like about boxed content is that you can't see the permissions for the box's contents before purchase.

Other than that (as was mentioned before) boxed content is pretty useful when it comes to backing-up your inventory, and thus I keep the boxed content inside the un-boxed content folder as a back-up. Could I use a re-delivery instead of using boxed content? In most cases yes,  but boxed content is already there in my inventory for my convenience and I don't have to go back to the marketplace or use a re-delivery terminal.

In conclusion, maybe boxed content is not your thing and you dislike it, but it has it's uses, so I don't think it should be condoned as a bad practice just  because you think " the box is unnecessary. It's only an extra step". Also, attaching something to your body/HUD isn't worse than rezing it, cause it's easy to add/remove attachment and there's no clean-up required. So again, this is a matter of perspective, and with all things in life there are pros and cons.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Omega Tunwarm

[Elvina Ewing]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:58 AM, Levidian said:

 It's not only an extra step, and clutters inventory needlessly,

exactly. It clutters MY inventory, needlessly. I have 1500 or so items in my store. Say, 1 dress has 10 mesh body sizes in it. So there is already a folder in my inventory for demo of this item. If i put this folder of this demo (unboxed) on MP, too, it's 10 more items counted unnecessarily towards my inventory count, and they will always be there. You try the demo, and then you delete it. Problem solved, no unnecessary clutter in YOUR inventory. Me i can't, if i do what you suggest i have to keep them there for lazy people like you forever. x1500 items = 15000 absolutely unnecessary copies my inventory totally can do without. And sometimes there are up to 30 items in 1 demo, with all the variations and different parts for different mesh bodies, so 15000 items extra count is only a minimum example. So...

NO.

[Alyona Su]

My only gripe about boxed content from anywhere is the *stupid* animations that come in them. I also don't like auto-unpackers (I decline them every time.)

The perfect "boxed" packaging for me is: Simple box I can rez on the ground. Make it "Click to Open" so it opens the "Copy to Inventory" widget when clicked on. That's it. That's all I ask.

I rez *everything* on the ground and "open" it, even HUDS. I cannot stand those "animated handbag" types. And even when the "Copy to Inventory" widget is on my screen, I rarely ever click the Copy to Inventory button; I prefer to *manually* copy only the contents I want into the folder where I want it to be. I never copy the landmarks or scripts and other non-essential stuff.

This is how I can organize and maintain a 13 years-long inventory and still know where everything is. I've seen screenshots of some people's inventory and shake my head solemnly while backing away slowly...

[Levidian]

Hey all thanks for the constructive conversation, but please be aware I'm not asking for no boxes.  I want to address a few responses here just because I think my original post wasn't clear.

On 1/13/2020 at 8:09 PM, ChinRey said:

I understand your concern but unfortunately there is a problem with MP after they launched VMM (Viewer-Managed Marketplace).

With VMM every single item for every single MP listing is still in your inventory, in a folder hidden in the regular inventory listing and only vieweable in an even cruder and more primitive separate window. With a few hundred listings, each with a handful of unboxed items, VMM transforms into UMM (Un-Manageable Marketplace).

I didn't know this, thank you for that clarification.

On 1/14/2020 at 10:48 AM, Pixieplumb Flanagan said:

Caspervend, which is used by more merchants than not, requires that all items be boxed.  I know, it's the end of the world.   s/off

I said in my original post it was fine when Caspervend did it anyway.

On 1/14/2020 at 1:54 PM, Solar Legion said:

To add to the prior responses: The box also serves as a self contained backup for copy/mod items in the event that you manage to bungle something horribly. After all, not everyone bothers to make a copy of an individual item before they start experimenting on it.

You don't like the boxes - good for you! They serve an actual purpose for the average user.

This post isn't about boxed items.  It's about boxed DEMOS of items.  You know, the free things that creators make so everyone can try on the product and then delete after they buy the real one (or if they dont want it/doesnt fit/etc). There is no real reason I can think of to why the average user would need to keep a box of a freely available DEMO item.  Please do not derail this topic into something it isn't about.

18 hours ago, Elvina Ewing said:

exactly. It clutters MY inventory, needlessly. I have 1500 or so items in my store. Say, 1 dress has 10 mesh body sizes in it. So there is already a folder in my inventory for demo of this item. If i put this folder of this demo (unboxed) on MP, too, it's 10 more items counted unnecessarily towards my inventory count, and they will always be there. You try the demo, and then you delete it. Problem solved, no unnecessary clutter in YOUR inventory. Me i can't, if i do what you suggest i have to keep them there for lazy people like you forever. x1500 items = 15000 absolutely unnecessary copies my inventory totally can do without. And sometimes there are up to 30 items in 1 demo, with all the variations and different parts for different mesh bodies, so 15000 items extra count is only a minimum example. So...

NO.

No need to be so rude about it.  A reasonable explanation, such as I quoted from someone earlier that explained how this works on the MP makes much more sense, so even though it's a pain, I understand why now that creators do this this way on the MP.

[Solar Legion]

Welcome to the Forum. It was already "derailed" several posts prior to mine.

Hence "to add to the prior responses" ...

[Kyrah Abattoir]

On 1/14/2020 at 3:09 AM, ChinRey said:

I understand your concern but unfortunately there is a problem with MP after they launched VMM (Viewer-Managed Marketplace).

With VMM every single item for every single MP listing is still in your inventory, in a folder hidden in the regular inventory listing and only vieweable in an even cruder and more primitive separate window. With a few hundred listings, each with a handful of unboxed items, VMM transforms into UMM (Un-Manageable Marketplace).

I'm one of those people with "a few hundred listings" and have none of those problems

I agree with the OP, inworld unboxing is fine, but on the MP? It's just annoying.

[Mollymews]

i like Touch to Unpack me HUDs/boxes as they work quite well with the Catznip - Create folder in same folder as the box/hud

get an outfit from Marketplace. The box/hud arrives in Received Items inventory tab in its own folder.  Wear the HUD, touch, press dialog accept button. The contents folder is created in the same folder as the box/hud

\ Received Items folder
.\ The Thing folder
...[] The Thing box/hud
...\ The Thing sub-folder with items in it
.... [] A item
.... [] B item
.... [] C item

I can delete items from the sub-folder, knowing that there is a copy  in the box/hud in the same folder as the Items sub-folder. Move The Thing folder from  Received Items to Clothing

the Catznip - Create folder in the same folder as the box/hud is one of those things we don't know we are missing out on until we have it.  With the Linden viewer, the sub-folder is created in the Inventory root folder. When we have a whole bunch of stuff to open/unpack then Create sub-folder in same folder I find to be a blessing  

 

 

 

[Alyona Su]

5 hours ago, Mollymews said:

 

the Catznip - Create folder in the same folder as the box/hud is one of those things we don't know we are missing out on until we have it.  With the Linden viewer, the sub-folder is created in the Inventory root folder. When we have a whole bunch of stuff to open/unpack then Create sub-folder in same folder I find to be a blessing  

I agree. It is the Catznip *killer feature* and why LL and others haven't implemented it or anything like it is a real "WTF-R-THEY-THINKIN?" LOL

[Alishen]

How hard is it to take the contents to inventory, take the box back and simply move it to the folder you just obtained by opening the box..Now you have a back up that be easily found in the same folder of the product you just broke trying to edit it.

A 199- 299 sale is less than a US dollar after the fees to advertise, your time involved, upload cost, even a 1999 sale is really about 3.95 after cash-out fees, advertising cost, did you know adds on the main page is 2,999.00 a month, landing page is 899, free page is 799 and most tend to buy all three every 30 days per product(image if you have 100), land cost, upload cost..months that only 3 sells not even paying to add cost .. finally, after a looooong time of adds, updates, time in-game, and many uploads things finally get moving in sales...just to cover the cost if your lucky ...after a much longer time you start to see profit, but after the in world land cost used for building...how many quality products are made in public sandboxes...none.so let's add in land cost..oh let's remember good products have websites... more fees...so the 199-1999 product really cost the maker...10,000L to get the attention it needs to sell for a profit.

I can tell you 80% of the things sold on marketplace you enjoy after all the cost and time it takes to get attention on that flooded platform made the creator 0 profits, even high-quality products take time to start selling making creators keep every cent in world to keep being able to pay the marketing cost, word of mouth is great but it takes years to gain that in SL until then creators just pay and pay and pay to chase the L$ dragon.

You just a bunch of inconsiderate aholes that make a post like this, and anyone replying with an agreement.

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Alishen

[Alyona Su]

6 hours ago, Alishen said:

How hard is it to take the contents to inventory, take the box back and simply move it to the folder you just obtained by opening the box..Now you have a back up that be easily found in the same folder of the product you just broke trying to edit it.

Why would you assume anyone thinks it's hard? It's about convenience and efficiency. Why does anyone use Firestorm, other than the need for RLV? What's so hard about doing everything it does (which you can do) through the usual LL Viewer methods?

I rest my case.

[Saucey Sinister]

  I have the same grievance as the OP. I can't stand to unpack anything in any form. However, this is SL and one of LL's biggest failures is that they have allowed their entire platform to be created by it's culture of creators. While this seems like a liberating thing, it's not. What it means is there isn't the typical uniform way that things work across the grid. I think it's time for LL to up their game and actually create a platform fit for 2020 and not make us feel trapped in 1995 anymore. They have allowed the method of the creators to later become implemented in their code if it was popular enough or if we complained enough. Perhaps your complaint is aimed at the wrong people.

  I am a creator, and while I don't have many items that have demos, I find the idea of doing anything two ways to be a chance for me to make a mistake. A mistake for us equals upset customers and extra work. It's much easier to create the products all uniform, which means that since they go in a server in world that require them to be packed anything on MP will also be packed. When I pack up and list my items it's a very routine procedure for me. This makes it less likely that I would make a mistake and give an item that was a test and not a final version in the packed goods. Just on one project alone will clutter up my inventory fast, leaving room for me to transfer the wrong product. Instead, when I finalize my project it will immediately go into the unpackers in my work space. This assures me that I have the final product being transferred and that I don't have to repeat the same procedure two different ways. I have also had customers report that items were missing from folders, too. I went back to boxing after unboxing my entire inventory. That cost me a lot of money in time I could have been creating for profit. You have to remember that unlike other games, creating in SL isn't crafting. It's a graphic design or 3d modeling artist creating from scratch or texturing items.

  Another thing to consider is marketing. When you open one of my items the HUD has all of my contact information and a chance for you to view my entire collection via marketplace links, my blog, and my other store brands. When I do it this way, it doesn't matter if I change locations in world. You will have an easy way to find me again if you simply check my blog or MP.  You can press a button on my unpacking HUD to find that information instead of having to look for a note card, LM, etc. Updating your boxed items from your server every time you have a store location change or put up a new store in a mall is a ridiculous amount of wasted time to go back and be sure each boxed item in the vendor has the correct/current information. Many of us will participate in a minimum of 1-2 events per month. There isn't much down time and there's a lot of room for error if you don't have a system to be sure you are consistent.

While I understand the frustration, I think it's a lost cause. Just unpack the box and delete the box, please or design a system to present to Linden Labs for consideration. The creators would truly appreciate the effort and change, too.

[Dima Plessis]

I would normally agree, and I tried to switch to using folders in my MP listings but I have had repeated issues with editing MP listings that use a folder. For whatever reason I can't always see all the items in the folder after I've listed it, so if I need to change something included in the listing I can't delete the old items in the folder. I eventually gave up and went back to boxing everything because I can always see it when there is a single item in the folder.

[Lexus Ling]

Be some year longer as seller in SL then did you know why we like them.

[DeepBlueJoy]

On 1/15/2020 at 9:59 AM, Alyona Su said:

My only gripe about boxed content from anywhere is the *stupid* animations that come in them. I also don't like auto-unpackers (I decline them every time.)

The perfect "boxed" packaging for me is: Simple box I can rez on the ground. Make it "Click to Open" so it opens the "Copy to Inventory" widget when clicked on. That's it. That's all I ask.

I rez *everything* on the ground and "open" it, even HUDS. I cannot stand those "animated handbag" types. And even when the "Copy to Inventory" widget is on my screen, I rarely ever click the Copy to Inventory button; I prefer to *manually* copy only the contents I want into the folder where I want it to be. I never copy the landmarks or scripts and other non-essential stuff.

This is how I can organize and maintain a 13 years-long inventory and still know where everything is. I've seen screenshots of some people's inventory and shake my head solemnly while backing away slowly...

Hating auto unpackers is great if you have access to land.  If you are new or don't have money for land, you have to find (ever rarer, it seems) a sandbox to unpack or try to do it the hard way by attaching whatever it is to yourself and trying to dig the contents out.  Most inexperienced users don't know how to do that. 

I do agree about the animated gestures though... I just want a simple 'accept' and done.  I don't need sounds or special poses.  No one needs to know (loudly and with bright lights) that I'm opening boxes.

I tend to unpack the stuff in the auto unpackers first, and sometimes forget the boxed up stuff entirely.   I can be anywhere and quickly clean through all my new stuff easily when it's auto openable.

[Lexus Ling]

On 1/14/2020 at 12:58 AM, Levidian said:

Creators - please stop boxing up demos posted to MP or sold via the built-in vendor system. 

Caspervend and other vendor systems is ok, because the demo box goes to objects by default as a box alone and not a new folder, so rezzing it makes sense.  But when you buy from MP or in-world built in vendor, it puts the contents into its own folder already, the box is unnecessary. It's not only an extra step, and clutters inventory needlessly, but also requires you rez rights to rez it (or even worse, forcing you to attach it to your body one at a time).

You real new in SL, learn first the default SL rulez as CREATOR or SELLER!

If you buy a item that cost some thousand of L$, will the customer not burning the L$ if they sell the wrong item, because you can buy demo's.

I know all the time creators sell Demo Versions 4 customer, the same in "xstreetsl - Second Life Commerce" you know that now as "https://marketplace.secondlife.com/".

If you dont like that kind of selling, don't buy that from the creator and use a other creator.

If you buy a box with your items, then look 4 SANDBOX or REZPLACE to unbox them, they are freebie areas to use.

Some creators have a rezplace near the shop, you need only use your eye's.

[Paul Hexem]

I've received the exact opposite feedback, most people seem to want auto unpackers and were shocked I hadn't already scripted my own superior versions.

[Anna Salyx]

On 1/15/2020 at 11:31 PM, Solar Legion said:

Welcome to the Forum. It was already "derailed" several posts prior to mine.

Hence "to add to the prior responses" ...

oh, good!  I was looking for the derail point so I could inject my little bit of self humor further down  /lol

 

On 1/15/2020 at 8:59 AM, Alyona Su said:

I rez *everything* on the ground and "open" it, even HUDS. I cannot stand those "animated handbag" types. And even when the "Copy to Inventory" widget is on my screen, I rarely ever click the Copy to Inventory button; I prefer to *manually* copy only the contents I want into the folder where I want it to be. I never copy the landmarks or scripts and other non-essential stuff.

This is how I can organize and maintain a 13 years-long inventory and still know where everything is. I've seen screenshots of some people's inventory and shake my head solemnly while backing away slowly...

I used to do that when i first started in SL.  A few years later it was, "meh, just dump the stuff to inventory and i"ll sort it out later."  now 10 years later, I have to file a travel plan a week in advance of venturing into my inventory, plus I have to carry extra supplies and hire a S&R team to come looking for me if I've not checked in on schedule or are more than 24 hours late from my expected exit time.  Trust me after 10 years of treasure hunts, it's not a pretty place in there.......

On 1/29/2020 at 8:44 AM, Saucey Sinister said:

 I think it's time for LL to up their game and actually create a platform fit for 2020 and not make us feel trapped in 1995 anymore.

 

I think they tried.  It didn't work out so well.  /shrugs.    seriously though, fwiw, I like what we have, quirks and foibles and all...