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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

You're about as far off as you can get, besides the very first part.

  • Everyone will be given an account for the Tilia service.
  • If you deposit USD into your Tilia account and don't use the service at all for a year, your Tilia account's balance will be charged, not you.
  • You won't need to provide any personal information as long as you do not try to process credit through Tilia into your own bank account.

The idle fee to me seem like Linden Labs/Tilia doesn't want to be accused of running a "banking" service. To discourage users from leaving $ sitting in their account and reduce their potential liability I assume.

As for those who claim that they can't identify themselves, I'm sorry but most companies don't do business with anonymous parties. You are bound to have some sort of official document that identifies you. I'm never going anywhere without my ID card for instance. How do you prove you are who you say you are, at the bank, or for any administrative purpose?

Edited by Kyrah Abattoir
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Just now, LisaJCobalt said:

So, if I want to buy Linden's, and use them in SL but NOT cash out my Linden's, (meaning convert my Linden's to $USD and transfer to my bank account), then I won't have to provide Tilia with my SS# (or other personal info like utility bills, drivers license, etc)?

"Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy."

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14 minutes ago, EdmundPendragon said:

This is why I will NEVER give my social security number to anyone (with the exception as someone said earlier the government who issued it in the first place).

If only it was that simple, even job apps are forcing ya to hand over the SSN now.

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Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

The "whole new administrative bureaucracy" has been around since 2015.

https://modemworld.me/2015/11/04/linden-lab-and-tilia-inc-speculations-on-the-labs-new-subsidiary/

I’m glad to be aware of it then 🙂

Redundant Databases are simply redundant opportunities to “lose” data to Very Mean People. If this information “chopped” to a spun-off subsidiary, I’d be interested to know if other copies held by LL were eliminated. Knowing their Data Security Plan going forward would also be a confidence builder.

I’ve had the lovely experience of having to wrangle LL, my Bank and PayPal based on an error made by LL that caused me some small financial issues. It was resolved 3 months later, but really never left me with a great confidence in their safeguarding processes.

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2 minutes ago, LisaJCobalt said:

So, if I want to buy Linden's, and use them in SL but NOT cash out my Linden's, (meaning convert my Linden's to $USD and transfer to my bank account), then I won't have to provide Tilia with my SS# (or other personal info like utility bills, drivers license, etc)?

Lisa, while you do have to agree to the Tilia TOS, you are correct: you do not need to provide any additional information unless you are cashing out. Buying and spending L$ requires no further information; it is essentially unchanged.

So, for the vast majority of residents, this will have virtually no visible impact.

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1 minute ago, Digit Gears said:

If only it was that simple, even job apps are forcing ya to hand over the SSN now.

Wow, that is really intrusive in my opinion. But luckily for me, I am retired these days. Sometimes, I seriously wonder if I could survive in this world. It is really so much different than it was even twenty years ago.

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7 minutes ago, LisaJCobalt said:

So, if I want to buy Linden's, and use them in SL but NOT cash out my Linden's, (meaning convert my Linden's to $USD and transfer to my bank account), then I won't have to provide Tilia with my SS# (or other personal info like utility bills, drivers license, etc)?

Correct. You will have to agree to the Tilia TOS, just like everyone else. But you will not have to provide SS#, etc., unless you have a cash balance you want to withdraw from. 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, EdmundPendragon said:

Hi Lisa, This is exactly how my personal info was stolen but luckily for me not used. A "new-hire" admin clerk at my primary care doctor's office was caught making copies of patient's information. It was later discovered that she was giving these copies to her son, who was opening accounts,etc., with this information. This is why I will NEVER give my social security number to anyone (with the exception as someone said earlier the government who issued it in the first place).

I'm sorry that happened to you! I know how difficult it is to get things straightened out after that..it's a nightmare. This also happened at my health system. A unit clerk in a hospital made photocopies of patient registration sheets with SS#'s and shared them with someone else to steal identities. She was terminated and prosecuted. In the past I collected SS# on my data collection sheets but I protected them under lock & key. No one gets to them but me. After a couple of years all data is destroyed (we keep them for auditing purposes). I still have access to some SS#'s as Medicare has not changed all members #'s to scrambled numbers/letters but soon I won't have access to any which is all the better. While I'm truthworthy and ethical some are not.

Edited by LisaJCobalt
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3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Lisa, while you do have to agree to the Tilia TOS, you are correct: you do not need to provide any additional information unless you are cashing out. Buying and spending L$ requires no further information; it is essentially unchanged.

So, for the vast majority of residents, this will have virtually no visible impact.

Thanks, that's good to know. 

 

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I rather suspect that you all are complaining about something that Linden Lab has little choice in because this change is most likely in response to US regulations. I also think a great many are jumping to conclusions that are based on fear and not what is actually happening. 

Step back and think for a moment.

  • If you have not been making money and taking it out to your RL then you are not really affected by this other than checking a box agreeing to the Tilia TOS. You will NOT have to submit any of your personal information.
  • If you have been taking money out of SL to RL then you most likely have had to give them that info already. If you somehow have slipped through the cracks and have not had to submit that info then this will remedy a mistake because you should have submitted that info already. 

The regulation of monetary transactions is one of the most important roles of government. All businesses have to submit to those regulations. 

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17 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

 

Ummmm . . .

"Inactivity Fee"???

I’m late to this thread (at a RL conference so not on the forums much). I read the main post and did not see anything about “inactivity fee”. Also, it seems to be only about cashing out. Help?

 

A91548CC-515C-4498-A1F0-C4861F322F02.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m late to this thread (at a RL conference so not on the forums much). I read the main post and did not see anything about “inactivity fee”. Also, it seems to be only about cashing out. Help?

 

A91548CC-515C-4498-A1F0-C4861F322F02.jpeg

As i said higher my theory is Tilia trying to distance itself from being used as a saving account.

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2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

If you have been taking money out of SL to RL then you most likely have had to give them that info already. If you somehow have slipped through the cracks and have not had to submit that info then this will remedy a mistake because you should have submitted that info already. 

If I remember right, one only needed to provide identifying information if they cashed out X amount each month (was it 400usd or 600usd?), and since so many cash out just a bit each month this is new and possibly unsettling for them (having to provide identifying documents).

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There is no way they are getting any form of ID other than my credit card to tie to my second life account..

Just take a second to think about what it actually means. They will be storing said information... 

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Okay, maybe explaining this in Second Life terms will help. Think of it this way:

Tilia is Second Life's alt.

Many people in Second Life start out with one account that does everything and gradually find it useful to create others for specific purposes, particularly if they're running a significant business. Having a clean account for a specific purpose can help a business run more safely and efficiently for a number of reasons. It can be the same situation for real-life businesses.

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5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m late to this thread (at a RL conference so not on the forums much). I read the main post and did not see anything about “inactivity fee”. Also, it seems to be only about cashing out. Help?

 

A91548CC-515C-4498-A1F0-C4861F322F02.jpeg

The best way to close inactive accounts is to charge a fee that will do one of two things, either prompt the account holder to action or reduce the balance in the account until it reaches zero and then can be closed by Tilia.

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4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m late to this thread (at a RL conference so not on the forums much). I read the main post and did not see anything about “inactivity fee”. Also, it seems to be only about cashing out. Help?

 

A91548CC-515C-4498-A1F0-C4861F322F02.jpeg

As Scylla already mentioned at the beginning of this page, yes, we all have to agree, but further identification is only required if you're withdrawing cash from LL.

As for the Inactivity Fee - can't really comment on that other than to say - without understanding the reasons - it seems a bit stingy. 

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1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I’m late to this thread (at a RL conference so not on the forums much). I read the main post and did not see anything about “inactivity fee”. Also, it seems to be only about cashing out. Help?

 

A91548CC-515C-4498-A1F0-C4861F322F02.jpeg

What, you don't want to read 14 pages of post-apocalyptic panic to find out what's going on? Yeeesh.

Short answers:

1) There is a yet-to-be-determined Inactivity Fee for Tilia accounts that contain a cash balance, and have remained inactive for a year. This fee only affects USD balances, not Lindens, and it ends if the account is used or accessed, or if there is no USD amount remaining in it.

2) It is mostly about cashing out -- everyone will have to agree to the Tilia ToS, but only those cashing out will need to provide additional ID, or be subject to the Inactivity Fee.

You're welcome.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

If I remember right, one only needed to provide identifying information if they cashed out X amount each month (was it 400usd or 600usd?), and since so many cash out just a bit each month this is new and possibly unsettling for them (having to provide identifying documents).

Not in my case. I had cashed out three times, all three times, small amounts. With the third cash out I had to submit my info. Also, these cash outs were not done three months in a row but were spread out over a period of time.

In Sansar, it was requested with the first cash out.

Edited by Blush Bravin

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1 minute ago, TempestKittie said:

There is no way they are getting any form of ID other than my credit card to tie to my second life account..

Just take a second to think about what it actually means. They will be storing said information... 

They will, so they'll probably just not even bother to thank you for your interest in the service, sad to see you go etc. You won't get that but if you want to be able to perform the services that they require verification for, you won't be able to use those or SL at all if compliant with the new TOS is enforced pre login.

LL says "Bye"

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4 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Not in my case. I had cashed out three times, all three times, small amounts. With the third cash out I had to submit my info. Also, these cash outs were not done three months in a row but were spread out over a period of time.

In Sansar, it was requested with the first cash out.

Maybe it was based on a yearly income amount, but I do know that if you cashed out very little then identifying info was not required.

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2 minutes ago, Bradford Mint said:

They will, so they'll probably just not even bother to thank you for your interest in the service, sad to see you go etc. You won't get that but if you want to be able to perform the services that they require verification for, you won't be able to use those or SL at all if compliant with the new TOS is enforced pre login.

LL says "Bye"

That's a bit harsh. If @TempestKittie isn't one who needs to convert L$ to $, then this doesn't affect her at all.

It's just been a bit confusing for people at first glance, but thank goodness for Scylla spelling it out for dunces like me.

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Posted (edited)

What disturbs me most about this new Tilia TOS is that it seems the "if we make a mistake with your money or content you are 'shirt out of luck' " clause has been tightened even further.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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5 minutes ago, TempestKittie said:

There is no way they are getting any form of ID other than my credit card to tie to my second life account..

Just take a second to think about what it actually means. They will be storing said information... 

 

1 minute ago, Bradford Mint said:

They will, so they'll probably just not even bother to thank you for your interest in the service, sad to see you go etc. You won't get that but if you want to be able to perform the services that they require verification for, you won't be able to use those or SL at all if compliant with the new TOS is enforced pre login.

LL says "Bye" 

They will not require any form of additional ID unless you are cashing out Lindens into USDs.  If you are not doing so, then all you need to do is agree to the Tilia ToS: you do not need to do anything else at all.

It is completely valid to have concerns about this sort of information being collected by LL -- mostly with regard to security -- but can we please be more precise about the information we are spreading here????

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40 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Because, looking at what Tilia does in relation to Second Life, everyone who ever buys or possibly even uses Linden Dollars will be using Tilia. Actually they already are and have been for some time as several people have already pointed out.

So that means we have been USING Tilia without our knowledge or our OK?    And without seeing the TOS for Tilia?  Or their privacy policy? 

 I am surprised you seem to think this is an  OK thing. 

 

There are plenty of people and accounts that never buy or sell Lindens. There is a whole HUGE "free economy" out there who don't fit into this box. 

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