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Just now, Blush Bravin said:

, how would I even move that money?

let your alt buy L$ for the usd balance and transfer it to your banking alt.

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3 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

Heck it could even be more than a couple of dollars. .

of course the buy fee needs to be eaten... in small amounts it might not be worth the trouble

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2 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

let your alt buy L$ for the usd balance and transfer it to your banking alt.

Sure would be nice if the lab made a way to transfer those USD balances from one account to another without having to purchase lindens just to cash them out again.

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I wonder just how much money the lab is sitting on from inactive accounts. You know those pennies add up! I can imagine that there must be a tidy little sum of cash that's being held.

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46 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

Oh jeez. I thought the dead baby jokes died out in the 70s.

There were some cute “101 uses for a dead cat” books in the 80’s.

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Posted (edited)

Possibly, this has all been said, but since I'm about 10 pages behind, I'm going to comment on a page-by-page basis.

 

8 hours ago, Naughtgelic Kira said:
9 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

Again I ask WHY everyone in Second Life needs to agree to Tilia's TOS and Privacy Policy when only a very small percentage of the citizenship will be using the service to cashout? 

 

"Effective August 1, in order to continue using Second Life you will have to agree to Tilia’s Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.  A Tilia Account associated with your Second Life Account will automatically be created for you and you will not need a separate username or password to access your Tilia Account."

Because its the only company that is handling your money inside SL. 

But apparently, Tilia has been handling the buy and sell of L$ for quite some time, yet didn't require us to agree to any TOS and LL has said that we aren't really impacted in any other way if we never cash out or even maintain a USD balance.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Sabaat said:

I don't have to give this much information to Amazon, Steam, xbox live etc etc to use their services or be threatened with charges for inactivity. They expect me to give up my private information to this degree and tell me it will be safe when not even the biggest tech companies can even manage this or even the banking industry itself. They then tell me that they might refund unused funds in my account and may not even delete the information after requesting termination of said account? They can't even safeguard SL assets and they tell me the information I provide to them will be safe somehow.

If you actually sold stuff on Amazon, and thus were getting $$$ FROM there, you'd have to provide similar info.  Very likely also if you were taking money out from Steam or Xbox, etc...

 

 

 

8 hours ago, QueenGalaxia said:

Thank you for your quick response. that is helpful to know. Also, I don't feel right about having them know my social security and address, to me that feels like a violation of my privacy and potential risk of unknowns to come and be. *shrugs*  T_T i dont plan on ever converting lindens into money also so. i feel like having a Tilia account would be irrelevant for me. but ah well. 

You do not have to give any info until such time as you want to take cash out of SL.

 

 

Edited by LittleMe Jewell

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7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If you actually sold stuff on Amazon, and thus were getting $$$ FROM there, you'd have to provide similar info.  Very likely also if you were taking money out from Steam or Xbox, etc...

Amazon knows us better than we know ourselves. THAT is far more frightening than LL following commerce law.

But I so love it when they recommend something cute that they'd know I'll love and deliver it the next day!

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17 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I do not KNOW that but my limited sampling of folks on my friends list (creators) suggests it just went out to folks that had cashed out.   Edit: It has now been confirmed that at least SOME people that have never cashed out got an email.  Very likely it is a law that they have to tell "customers" a month ahead, which they just did. I didn't look that up so just a guess.  So folks that don't read the blog or the "news" in their backend home page may not know until they can't get in without OKing the Tilia TOS and privacy statement. THAT was what happened in August 2013 and some people lost a LOT of money over that. I have a whole (not linked but still there ) page on my blog with all the links to that VERY MESSY TIME.  IM me if anyone wants to step back into history. Painful but important. 

 

I know it is day one and all. A lot of folks are just very "oh well, not a big deal" which kind of filters over to the attitude of some in corporeal life.  I have been firmly in the LL camp on most things recently because of Bellisseria. I didn't even "complain" about the cashing out fee going up. 

 

BUT --- first they announced to all the citizens that there were new Linden Homes for Premium members. TONS of folks got new accounts to get there new homes (like there were probably a 100 threads started here on "how do I get my new home"). They could NOT get a home because there were none.  And still getting a new home is close to impossible and only for the REALLY inspired folks that choose to use the adventure as a game (and good for them to finding a way to make it work). 

 

THEN they raise the membership rates (OK, been a long while) and gave folks the option of paying ahead and saving money. . Many people did; one person reported paying ahead for eight accounts -- that's a lot of money.  And then one week after the cutoff date they change the rules.    Some folks will leave because of this. It is an historical certainly. They left because LL cut out gambling. They left when they "took back" the homesteads (I don't think they were called that then). They left (many arty creators in this group) left over the TOS of August. They left or went back to basic when the rates went up this month.  Heck, they abandoned their Linden homes because they couldn't use ban lines!!!!!  

 

So LL got extra "seed" money from all the new premium accounts. They got extra "seed" money" from the early payment of premium memberships. Neither of which were all that transparent in their scope.   Soooo ---

 

Right now, I plan to OK the TOS and privacy statements. I read briefly through the TOS and didn't agree with even the beginning so in my HEART I am not agreeing at all. I figure that if I never USE Tilia, it won't matter much (well the privacy thing but since there really is NO privacy in the US any more perhaps the point is moot).  Basically I don't want to lose my account.  I just won't cash out any longer.

 

My choice. 

I am heading over to Sansar now to see what is up there. Since I will NOT be OKing any new Tilia for Sansar or logging in again, anyone that wants to see my numerous builds or buy anything I have imported there better hurry on over.  This assuming that the same announcement is happening there. 

 

If nothing else, everyone here can remember they WERE here when this happened LOL.  I used to say that during very VERY bad times traveling in Mexico. "This will make a good story when it is all over!" 

 

 

I received an email, but I don't take money out of SL. However, I do spend a lot in world. I don't like having to give them my social security number, and I really don't like it that this announcement happened after I paid a year's premium for my daughter, and myself. I don't know if they have a new guy running things who's trying to make an impression, or if Linden just wants to make people leave. There's a lot I don't like about it now, the new Linden Homes situation being an example, and I can't help wondering what they may throw at us next. I've been isl for 11 years, but most likely, I'll be in the group that leaves. I've heard of Sansar, but I don't know much about it. Is it run by Linden's?

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3 minutes ago, Ciarra Lexington said:

 I've heard of Sansar, but I don't know much about it. Is it run by Linden's?

yep totally LL... ánd Tilia....ánd... no lag and plenty of space because you'll be totally alone there

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4 minutes ago, Fox Wijaya said:

yep totally LL... ánd Tilia....ánd... no lag and plenty of space because you'll be totally alone there

Well, that's all I need to know! The search for new entertainment continues.. 

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Just now, Ciarra Lexington said:

Well, that's all I need to know! The search for new entertainment continues.. 

don't run yet, make your plan and see what happens.
 

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13 minutes ago, Ciarra Lexington said:

I received an email, but I don't take money out of SL. However, I do spend a lot in world. I don't like having to give them my social security number, and I really don't like it that this announcement happened after I paid a year's premium for my daughter, and myself. I don't know if they have a new guy running things who's trying to make an impression, or if Linden just wants to make people leave. There's a lot I don't like about it now, the new Linden Homes situation being an example, and I can't help wondering what they may throw at us next. I've been isl for 11 years, but most likely, I'll be in the group that leaves. I've heard of Sansar, but I don't know much about it. Is it run by Linden's?

Ciarra, unless you and/or your daughter are cashing L$ to USD -- which is to say, having in-world currency converted to RL currency so that you can deposit it in the bank -- Tilia affects you virtually not at all. You'll have to agree to its TOS, but that covers only USD balances.

I've put together a brief summary here, with links to official info:

 

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5 minutes ago, Ciarra Lexington said:

I received an email, but I don't take money out of SL. However, I do spend a lot in world. I don't like having to give them my social security number

Stealing someone else's idea from another thread but...

And the bold and the yellow is not snarkiness... people are literally missing this vital piece of information in the deluge of posts on this thread and people quickly scrolling need to have this jump out at them so they can see it. 

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU DON'T CASH MONEY OUT OF SECOND LIFE.

You will not have to provide your social security number, driver's license, birth certificate, your mother's birth certificate, fingerprints, DNA, first born child, a goat, or a blood sacrifice if you purchase Linden dollars and spend them in Second Life.

 

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1 minute ago, Beth Macbain said:

You will not have to provide your social security number..

Initially.

But you will have an account .. and that's not to say those of us who do cash out occasional small amounts are happy either.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

Stealing someone else's idea from another thread but...

And the bold and the yellow is not snarkiness... people are literally missing this vital piece of information in the deluge of posts on this thread and people quickly scrolling need to have this jump out at them so they can see it. 

THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO YOU IF YOU DON'T CASH MONEY OUT OF SECOND LIFE.

You will not have to provide your social security number, driver's license, birth certificate, your mother's birth certificate, fingerprints, DNA, first born child, a goat, or a blood sacrifice if you purchase Linden dollars and spend them in Second Life.

 

The large print isn't what sounds snarky, this part is your mother's birth certificate, fingerprints, DNA, first born child, a goat, or a blood sacrifice if you purchase Linden dollars and spend them in Second Life. 

People should be able to ask questions, even be mistaken or misunderstand something, without sarcasm being thrown their way. This is why I've rarely posted on forums in my 11 years isl. 

 

Edited by Ciarra Lexington
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5 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

 

And the bold and the yellow is not snarkiness...

of course it is :)

and i keep to my point that TOS 1.1 states differently than your huge superscript.

 

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1 minute ago, CoffeeDujour said:

Initially.

But you will have an account .. and that's not to say those of us who do cash out occasional small amounts are happy either.

No, but most of the people that I'm seeing that are absolutely furious are the ones who don't ever cash anything out. 

Just now, Ciarra Lexington said:

The large print isn't what sounds snarky, this part is your mother's birth certificate, fingerprints, DNA, first born child, a goat, or a blood sacrifice if you purchase Linden dollars and spend them in Second Life. 

No, that was just me trying to be funny... something I usually completely succeed in failing at. 

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5 hours ago, DancesWithRobots Soyer said:

Hello all.  This is my first post in...maybe a decade or so.  It's only commentary with little to say about the recent changes.  Move on if you like.

I used to spend a LOT of money in SL.  I used to be very active in the forums.  I attempted to take total ownership of Owasco--and came damn close.

My main account, (I have a few mostly forgotten alts)  Is pre-flexi, pre -land rush. I started to lose interest about the time there was talk of introducing mesh, tho I've been maintaining my account at yearly level at $72 per year with  a L$500 weekly stipend.  (Yes--500.)  The stipend, when cashed in through the the exchange, just about paid for my membership with a little left over.  For years, I logged in only to turn Lindens into USD and pay for another years dues.

I came back a few years ago.  Learned how to play all over again.  Learned to deal with mesh.  Got to back to the point where I could make just about anything I wanted.  Made new friends, became re-acquainted with old friends from WAY back in the day.

Lost interest again, but this time I maintained a parcel of land that was actually costing me a little bit of real money.

Soon after I paid my most recent dues, i got the "We're changing membership fees--lock in your old price for another year." email.  I mostly ignored it.  When I got around to checking my account, I found that my next dues will be $99 per year.

If I was active like I used to be, I'd have shrugged it off.  Now it feels like a lot of money for something I hardly do any more.

But for me, it's not just the higher dues and  the changes in payment processing.  SL no longer supports Linux, (Yes I know about Alchemy.)  And...Like I said, I don't really play any more.

I came here to check on how Tilia is going to affect my account.  My current determination is that it won't do much, except for the final $50-$100 or so I have left in that it's going to make it a little more annoying to cash out.

Anyway, LL won't miss me.  I'll miss SL a little bit.  SL and prims are the only "social" 3d modeling tool i know of.  There are a few friends who are urging me to stay, but if i do it will ultimately be basic--just before my membership fees are due.  And, going by LL's attitude towards Linux, and the issues I've had in the past uploading mesh with with an unofficial client...I probably won't bother.

Gosh, long time no see.  I totally get where you are coming from though.

*Hugs*

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1 minute ago, Fox Wijaya said:

of course it is :)

and i keep to my point that TOS 1.1 states differently than your huge superscript.

 

It really wasn't but you're absolutely free to believe differently. 

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After actually going through everything and figuring that this is not bad after all. I can come to the conclusion, that you all must calm down. This is to prevent certain things, like money laundering, and other illegal activities in SL to happen, especially with people who cash out on a regular basis. This will not affect us, the average Joe, and the fees are just for people who have had an inactive account for a year. Basically they are being compliant with new and stricter US laws. Which in all fairness, if they don't follow, people would not have the ability to cash out.

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2 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

No, but most of the people that I'm seeing that are absolutely furious are the ones who don't ever cash anything out. 

No, that was just me trying to be funny... something I usually completely succeed in failing at. 

I am not "absolutely furious" Beth Macbain. This game would have to be a lot more important to me, for that kind of reaction. 

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37 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

If you actually sold stuff on Amazon, and thus were getting $$$ FROM there, you'd have to provide similar info.  Very likely also if you were taking money out from Steam or Xbox, etc...

Yep, to get money from Amazon, I have to fill out a W-8BEN (as I live in the UK). This includes my tax number and personal information. It also includes a reference to a tax treaty section and paragraph, which means having to read the treaty and figure out the right answer. The form then has to be renewed after a few years. That's not something Amazon came up with, so I fill these out for a bunch of other US sites as well, then renew all those every few years.

This can be pretty overwhelming when someone starts out as a freelance artist/writer. So I can appreciate why some people are panicking. But in the end, it's just what you've got to do if you want to freelance in a creative field. There will always be forms and contracts. There are always admin hoops to jump through. Take it slowly and just work through it one step at a time, until you've got it all done.

To be clear, LL is not asking for W-8BENs at the moment. The point is more that people wanting to be paid online have to provide a lot of information, one way or the other, before getting paid. This is why I'm not worried, because it's more of the same for me.

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Posted (edited)

Whether or not this affects me personally, if it makes the creators leave, then my reason for being here is gone, too. I haven't been a resident for all of these years just to float in pixel space. It's the wonderful creators and what they've turned this fantasy world into, that has kept me here. 

Edited by Ciarra Lexington
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