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Pamela Galli

Process Credit Fees Raised. Again.

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21 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

You are not a merchant and so the increase in the process credit fee has no impact on you, and that is relevant, because it allows you to have no empathy.

Wow this thread really got nasty. 

First of all you don't have to be a creator in order to cash out. I have a RL friend (relative actually) who has made TONS of money over on the Realms simply because he thinks it is fun. "Escorts" are not content creators and make plenty of money. So I think you are way off base there. And I have plenty of EMPATHY for people that I cannot personally relate to -- like RAPE VICTIMS. Really, so off base.

I thought this topic was old news.   It doesn't really impact me much but EVEN IF IT DID I am actually in favor of them not having a cap at all. Simply because it is unfair. The "little folks" that make less money should in my mind be able to cash out the same way the folks that make more do. EQUALITY IS GOOD.   The cap (less of a difference now) was almost like the tax system where the rich end up getting off paying no taxes and the poorer folk pay plenty (this in the US).  

Anyway, for ME --- I just turn my money in when I have a bunch and don't WORRY about it so much. Honestly, if I want to stress over things there are much more important topics in the world to worry about.

And I have owned several real life companies that did very well, thank you very much --- and I am guessing a lot of the folks here that do REAL business (not hobby, it's fun and I make no money -- and I think that is just fine to) also have. 

Going back to something calmer. I wish you lower blood pressures in the morrow LOL.

 

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3 minutes ago, Gadget Portal said:

Anyone cashing out certainly is.

And you just showed the level of your mentality there. 

 

I am gone. You guys enjoy yourselves.

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On 04/02/2018 at 12:39 AM, Viadetta said:

Goodness.. well I can see you are not a creator then Alwin, and there is no need to be rude.

 

I am not suggesting that LL are a charity.

@Chic Aeon I agreed with Viadetta that Alwin was being rude to her. This is when it started getting nasty. It was going very well before his post. No nastiness until then. I would never react to anyone in a nasty way unless I felt they were being rude.

As for the rest of your post I'm aware that other people besides merchants cash out. But this being the merchants forum, anyway that wasn't my main point.

My point here is that Alwin was being rude to Viadetta, and it annoyed me. Just as it may have annoyed you that I was being rude to him, and you felt you had to say something.

If people want to talk about their concerns about the fee increases, then I say let them, don't try to shut them up with rude abrupt put down condescending ( I can think of many more words to describe his comments).

Edited by Rya Nitely
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4 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

I am gone. You guys enjoy yourselves.

I hope you come back and read what I said because you can't just tell me off and then walk away

Edited by Rya Nitely
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1 hour ago, Rya Nitely said:

I would never react to anyone in a nasty way unless I felt they were being rude.

That was always my policy back in the RA days (RA was a predecessor of this forum). I was often, shall we say, 'negative' back then, but only ever when the other person did it first. And I stuck to it. There was plenty of flaming back then, but I never started any of it :)

Edited by Phil Deakins
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57 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

I agreed with Viadetta that Alwin was being rude to her.

 I'm aware that other people besides merchants cash out. But this being the merchants forum, anyway that wasn't my main point.

My point here is that Alwin was being rude to Viadetta, and it annoyed me.

at the first... if that is rude you really need to adjust your perception what is being rude

the second, you and that other only keep whining how bad it is for merchants... and sooo painfull for them....

the third  .. see the first. and C'est la vie,  thats life... don't use that cliche if you can't handle it.

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58 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

the second, you and that other only keep whining how bad it is for merchants... and sooo painfull for them....

So, by your standards, comments like this are respectful, and nobody should be offended by it? I assume 'that other' who keeps 'whining' is Viadetta? It could be almost anyone in this thread.  You don't know the meaning of the word rude.

I won't be responding to you anymore.

Edited by Rya Nitely
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Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Christians have this strange idea about turning the other cheek. It's mostly a theory and hardly ever practiced but it might be worth trying every now and then. You never know if it works.

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The only ones who really feel the pain of this raise are the ones who rely on SL for their RL livelihood. Like Rya, Pamela, me. All the rest (for whom SL is a nice hobby, pocket money, or who has no SL income at all) will never be able to relate. Don't expect any empathy from them. Most only think we are crazy and have only ourselves to blame if anything bad happens to our businesses. And they are actually right - relying on SL as the solely income is a gamble. I have been around here for more than 10 years, and i have made a lot of money in the pre mesh times. I am forever thankful for that, because it came unexpected (when i first started out) and i have always considered myself lucky, even if i work(ed) my a** off to achieve it.

Realize that most people won't understand what we do, or why. They consider us freaks, dreamers, gamblers, which is why whenever we are hit by any significant SL change they will only gloat and think/say: "Maybe you should have better stuck with a normal RL job, like everybody else does." Don't expect any empathy from them. Especially when you are trying to tell them that "cashing out 5000 US$ (!!!)" will cost you lots more now. Maybe if their RL boss tomorrow decides to cut their salary (or their government decides to cut their social benefits) with 250 US$ they will feel like you do now, but they will hardly make a connection and relate or feel your pain even then.

They will therefore use any opportunity to tell us to shut the hell up and suck it up, because maybe in a way it makes them feel better. Just ignore them, they have no clue what you have been through and what it took to get you where you are. You should be proud instead, because you know YOU make SL a better (looking) place.

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4 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

So, by your standards, comments like this are respectful, and nobody should be offended by it? I assume 'that other' who keeps 'whining' is Viadetta? It could be almost anyone in this thread.  You don't know the meaning of the word rude.

I won't be responding to you anymore.

i don't mind you don't respond... but you now refer to a post long after you called me rude... so typical for some types of people who can't handle disagreement in some subjects.

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On 05 February 2018 at 12:26 PM, Elvina Ewing said:

All the rest (for whom SL is a nice hobby, pocket money, or who has no SL income at all) will never be able to relate. Don't expect any empathy from them. Most only think we are crazy and have only ourselves to blame if anything bad happens to our businesses. And they are actually right

Hmmm, empathy... Let's see...

LL announce double free land and 10% less tier for members of Madlands Entitlement Club...

Madlands entitlement Club Merchants cheer loudly...

LL explain this is part of a move away from "land based revenue" to other sources such asd... Higher sales tax on the MP, higher Lindex transaction Fees, and higher Cashout Charges...

Madlands Entitlement Club Merchants are still cheering loudly, and too busy to notice the second LL announcement...

LL raise fees and charges and sales tax...

"What! Outrageous! I've been here since 2000 & Entitled, I DESERVE mah FREE money, LL taking more of mah FREE money is ABUSE, it's ROBBERY! Everyone in SL should show me empathy over my plight,  now I'm being ROBBED of over $60 out of every $5000!

I know, I'll raise all my prices to compensate! Hey why did all my sales drop  10%! What's going on Why don't those damn customers pay my higher prices so they can show me empathy for losing over $60 out of every $5000!

Ungrateful bastards"

...

Empathy? 

Meh...

Think I'm joking, check the forums...

There was a guy not that long ago who claimed that losing a whole $10 US out of $460 odd worth of L$, during transition from L$ to US$ to paypal constituted "Abuse" and that he wanted to know if he could file an abuse report against LL for stealing his FREE money that he was entitled to just for being online.

He didn't seem to like being told that no he couldn't and also, he was a horses backside...

Go figure...
 

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Just a note on this old thread ---- 

It is very obvious and pretty much stated  (recent comments from Ebbe in the Designing Worlds video) that cashing out will be going up AGAIN in the next several months (maybe at the end of the year? Hard to say).  

How much this will hurt creators is also difficult to predict. It has been announced many times since this post came out that the methods by which The Lab get their income will be shifting to be more fair.  That more fair part is of course dependent on one's point of view.

For creators that make their living here (Chic waves hands madly) it would be good to look at the OVERALL picture.  For example, the change from 512 to 1024 free tier helped creators with small shops.  Personally I moved from a rental to group land and save $65 a month. 

Systems are always tipped in one direction or another. If you can take advantage of that --- it certainly helps. 

And yes, prices of goods MAY go up in general. Kitely takes 30% (a number mentioned often in SL speak) and the prices of goods there are much more expensive than in SL. There are other reasons besides that cut of course, but still.

IF raises in the Marketplace and in cashing out bring us back to an inworld shopping experience, I for one would be happy about that. Nowadays that "real life" feel of shopping is pretty much gone. It is events or the Marketplace. I have, however, noted an increase in inworld sales these last few months -- so maybe something is shifting already. 

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2 hours ago, Chic Aeon said:

IF raises in the Marketplace and in cashing out bring us back to an inworld shopping experience, I for one would be happy about that. Nowadays that "real life" feel of shopping is pretty much gone. It is events or the Marketplace. I have, however, noted an increase in inworld sales these last few months -- so maybe something is shifting already. 

But is that really the goal they have set themselves?

I usually don't complain about this topic because there isn't anything I can really do beside clenching my teeth as I watch hundred of work hours get shaved down by fees and taxes.
Feel free to point and laugh at me, I don't care, but yeah, once the bills have been paid, that's a couple meals that I'm gonna skip.

If you look at the math cashout fees are basically geared towards a specific kind of person:

  • Less than 120$: You are basically not supposed to cash out (from 100% to 2.5%).
  • 120$ to 10000$: Normal fees. (2.5%)
  • Above 10000$: How may we serve you better my lord? (2.5% to 0% Why does this bracket even exist? Oh yeah because otherwise the Chungs are gonna start their own currency)
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33 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Above 10000$: How may we serve you better my lord?

I like that :D

 

33 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

Why does this bracket even exist?

It's existed for many years. There was a time when they'd do bank transfers when it was less than US$10,000, but that ended many years ago. Since then, they only do it for U$10,000 and above. I can't imagine why though. It's not like it's big job because such tasks are computerised. Google do it for US$100. At the time, LL distanced themselves from their customers, and that was just another way to lengthen the arm that they pushed us away with. It was just another thing, among many, for them to scorn us with.

Edited by Phil Deakins

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31 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But is that really the goal they have set themselves?

I usually don't complain about this topic because there isn't anything I can really do beside clenching my teeth as I watch hundred of work hours get shaved down by fees and taxes.
Feel free to point and laugh at me, I don't care, but yeah, once the bills have been paid, that's a couple meals that I'm gonna skip.

If you look at the math cashout fees are basically geared towards a specific kind of person:

  • Less than 120$: You are basically not supposed to cash out (from 100% to 2.5%).
  • 120$ to 10000$: Normal fees. (2.5%)
  • Above 10000$: How may we serve you better my lord? (2.5% to 0% Why does this bracket even exist? Oh yeah because otherwise the Chungs are gonna start their own currency)

My point was I guess, that it is the bottom line (for both creators and The Lab) that is actually what folks should be comparing.

 

Are you making more money than you did a year ago? Five years? Ten years?

I had my biggest month ever in  May === this is based on lindens in my account made during the month AND after cashing out.  

So that is what "I" am going to be watching.   As I said on another thread today, the new land tiers (for many of us) did make a difference and I am saving $65 US a month because of that.  So that figures in for me. For YOU (and others) the buy down on sims has made a difference I would think in your bottom line.   You can't ignore what is given and only reflect and complain about what was taken away.

IMHO.

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7 hours ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But is that really the goal they have set themselves?

I usually don't complain about this topic because there isn't anything I can really do beside clenching my teeth as I watch hundred of work hours get shaved down by fees and taxes.
Feel free to point and laugh at me, I don't care, but yeah, once the bills have been paid, that's a couple meals that I'm gonna skip.

If you look at the math cashout fees are basically geared towards a specific kind of person:

  • Less than 120$: You are basically not supposed to cash out (from 100% to 2.5%).
  • 120$ to 10000$: Normal fees. (2.5%)
  • Above 10000$: How may we serve you better my lord? (2.5% to 0% Why does this bracket even exist? Oh yeah because otherwise the Chungs are gonna start their own currency)

I don't believe you can cash out more than 10,000 in one transaction, so you would have to perform multiple transactions each attracting 2.5%.

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There are two categories of Trading/cash out limits: Residents and Business Owners. Within each of those there are levels. Depending on level, Business Owners can cash out (process credit) substantially more that $10k in 24 hrs. However, those categories and levels are no longer visible to us (they used to be) - now you only see the category/level that your account individually is.

Since those categories/levels are no longer visible, here's a link to an old forum post with them:

It does not have cash out/process credit limits because we were not limited until changes that were made in 2017(?). There are a few threads in the forums about how this change affected quite a few merchants because the way that the cash out limit was first derived was from an average of the most recent cash outs. If someone did not cash out frequently, they ended up with a cash out limit that was too low. To raise it, they had/have to request it through support and show that they really "need" the increase due to the volume of their business.

- edited to add further explanation.

Edited by Arwen Serpente

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Is this a win for me? Let me evaluate the situation. I increased my mainland parcel by 4096 - double what I had, at $5 more a month. My rent on my homestead is L2000 less a month, about $8. So I'm saving $3 a month. I have a bit more land (4096 mainland), which is now being threatened by parcels for sale on the abandoned land right next to me, due to lower prices, and this will make it less attractive for me. I predict a bright hideous building in full bright coming soon.

Sales are about the same, so what have I gained here? The extra land is nice, for now. The thing about mainland is that it's only as good as your neighbours.

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3 hours ago, Arwen Serpente said:

Since those categories/levels are no longer visible, here's a link to an old forum post with them:

It does not have cash out/process credit limits because we were not limited until changes that were made in 2017(?). There are a few threads in the forums about how this change affected quite a few merchants because the way that the cash out limit was first derived was from an average of the most recent cash outs. If someone did not cash out frequently, they ended up with a cash out limit that was too low. To raise it, they had/have to request it through support and show that they really "need" the increase due to the volume of their business.

Thanks for finding that older info.

I CAN say that I recently went up a tier level (last week) and it was fairly painless with some security questions. So there is that option if needed. 

 

 

 

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it looks like they have changed the tier levels since that old post. My tier level limit numbers are different than is shown in that table. If those are different, then who knows what levels there are now at all... :/

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Mine were juggled around a bit too, Elvina. I just posted that as a reference to the "Resident" vs. "Business" categories. And that process credit (which is not shown) can be over $10k in 24 hrs.  And yes, I agree, there's no more transparency with regard to economic limits - probably for the reason you are pointing out, that levels may vary on an individual basis now.

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There are plenty of other services that send you the money INSTANTLY for a tiny fee. I don't understand why it takes these people an average of FOUR DAYS to process credit.

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