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Pamela Galli

Process Credit Fees Raised. Again.

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1 hour ago, Naiman Broome said:

I am wondering if are still available other sources to sell Ldollars apart the official one?

No. At least not legal ones.

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Now we have the higher credit process fee and we have a lower L$ value. The L$/US$ went up with people selling before the fee increase, and it's not coming back down. I still think that a stable exchange rate needs LL intervention, which isn't happening this time.

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It’s not the raise in percent that makes such a difference, but that the cap went from $25 to $250. For example, cashing out $5000 previously coast $25, now it costs $125. (And the cap used to be even less, iirc.)

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Ahh the joys of working for a company who take ownership of all your content, make no attempt to protect it, and give absolutely no guarantees that even their pricing structures will remain reasonable. I assume there was no discussion about these changes with content creators? I assume there was no notice given via email to them? Well.. actually I know there was no email sent out, as I did not receive one!

 

This is shocking, and an absolute con. 

 

1. We pay a commission on every sale.

2. We pay again, when we sell our lindens for less than LL resell them.

3. We pay AGAIN when requesting a payout, which on $200, a $3 fee was bad enough, but it has suddenly jumped up to over $5.

 

I think it is time that third party resellers set up selling Lindens, and buying them from content creators, as used to happen in imvu. Maybe we may get a better deal then!

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1 hour ago, Viadetta said:

I assume there was no discussion about these changes with content creators?

eh.. why should there be discussion? and why with creators?

At first SL/LL is a company, not a democracy institute.

And what concerns the creators... they are just a part of the people who got hit by the raise of fees.. in fact everybody who buys and sells L$ feels it.

1 hour ago, Viadetta said:

Well.. actually I know there was no email sent out, as I did not receive one

The message did for sure get out, i'm  nearly 99% sure i did get one and it is at the blogs (nov 2'nd 2017) and discussed on the forums. That you don't follow the official communication channels can't be blamed to LL.

1 hour ago, Viadetta said:

I think it is time that third party resellers set up selling Lindens, and buying them from content creators, as used to happen in imvu. Maybe we may get a better deal then!

you'r really not up to date i think... what you suggest here is against TOS for several years now.

Stop confusing LL with a charity... they'r not.

 

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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Goodness.. well I can see you are not a creator then Alwin, and there is no need to be rude.

 

I am not suggesting that LL are a charity. Only that it is bad business practice to spring a wage decrease on the people who you rely upon to keep your company going. Also, I do know how much it costs to run a website catalogue, and a grid.. and I can assure you, they are so far from a charity.. that it is laughable, and quite criminal that they have to pinch on three occasions from people who are actually providing the content that makes this site work.

 

And before you use that argument.. that there are plenty more creators out there, if some of us quit in protest, I think you will find that is not really the case anymore. Take hair for example. The best woman's hair creators, have begun, making prim, then sculpted hair then taken that experience through to mesh, and finally brought all of that experience and knowledge into their present hybrid products. Someone new, who wants to make hair in SL has a lot of learning to do.. and would most likely apply those years of study to a more secure profession. 

 

Hence, the creators we have in SL, are precious, they have over 10 years of experience in many cases.. and those years should be valued, not disrespected by springing surprise reductions in their wages, with no notice except what you speak of.. a post in a forum, that most people do not have time to follow, because they are working too hard in SL! SL has email addresses for all of their creators, and a short mail to explain the situation, is only common decency. 

 

Finally.. I am sure it is against TOS to sell lindens.. however this type of behaviour from SL is only going to encourage it anyway. Do we not have flagrant disregard for content rights? Do we not have copybotted gatchas selling better than painstakingly built houses by original creators? Do we not have a dozens of other TOS violations every day?  It is only a matter of time, before such Linden sales networks grow, if LL make it increasingly difficult for their hardworking creators to get a good deal from them. 

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18 minutes ago, Viadetta said:

 

 i'm not rude ( not in this case yet) and being a creator or not isn't relevant at all.

not going to respond to the other, irrelevant things you write. I made my point.

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Well I'm not sure what point you were making exactly, except that in your opinion creators don't matter that much.

 

I would ask you to consider a grid.. that is empty, that has only a basic avatar of male and female available, with no community, no events, no shops, no malls, no contests or groups,  no offers and sales, no flickr feeds or romantic places to meet, and the list goes on. No content. 

 

Many people have tried to set up new grids, and failed. We only have to take a tour in Opensim, to see how quiet SL could be without it's dedicated creators, and organisers. It is a busy day in Opensim if 20 people are on a grid at one time. When SL will have 50,000 people online. And those 20 people will not pay hundreds of dollars to rent a sim, maybe they pay $20 at most.

 

The reason that SL works, and makes a huge profit for LL, is because of the community of creators, and their amazing dedication to keep it working. Many creators not only create, they do their own customer service, they police their own content creation theft, they give advice to customers on all things, from how to use their products, to how to reboot the sim, or how to know when a LL glitch means a relog is needed. They are the golden goose that LL seem oblivious to, and are in great danger of killing through neglect. And it seems you have a similar attitude as well.. regarding the "irrelevant things" that I write. 

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2 hours ago, Viadetta said:

Finally.. I am sure it is against TOS to sell lindens.. however this type of behaviour from SL is only going to encourage it anyway. Do we not have flagrant disregard for content rights? Do we not have copybotted gatchas selling better than painstakingly built houses by original creators? Do we not have a dozens of other TOS violations every day?  It is only a matter of time, before such Linden sales networks grow, if LL make it increasingly difficult for their hardworking creators to get a good deal from them. 

Why would anyone else buy something that has no value outside of Second Life?

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2 hours ago, Viadetta said:

The reason that SL works, and makes a huge profit for LL, is because of the community of creators,

here you go wrong, SL works because of the community... not just because of the creators.

And why OS is so empty, nobody wants to move where his friends are not.

 

 

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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17 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Stop confusing LL with a charity... they'r not.

You are not a merchant and so the increase in the process credit fee has no impact on you, and that is relevant, because it allows you to have no empathy. It doesn't affect you at all, and it's very easy to argue when you are not affected. You couldn't care less how much merchants are being impacted by the increase in fees, because you are not a merchant. And because of that the topic should be of no real concern or interest to you, except to tell others to stop complaining.

The process credit fee is what is being discussed here, and not the other very small fee increases (which isn't worth talking about). This is a  major increase for some merchants. For me it will be $50 a month increase, but I do feel for the merchants who face $200/month increase or more. Even though my increase is a lot less and easily absorbed, I can still have empathy for others who will feel a much greater impact..

I think creators/ merchants know very well that LL is not a charity. We work hard for every cent we make, staying up all night to get something done ( as I did last night).

Viadetta, I thank you for your post.

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2 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

You are not a merchant and so the increase in the process credit fee has no impact on you,

this is the most stupid thing i seen in long time here.

You dont know if i'm not a merchant, perhaps i might earn a nice amount of money with land, or even glueing plywood prims and sell those inworld.

And EVERYBODY who transfers money pays the fees, how on earth you think that are only merchants?

Quote

I can still have empathy for others who will feel a much greater impact..

oh please don't play that card. Everybody pays related to the amount they transfer and will feel the same pain. NO difference for me when i transfer my store earnings or escorting tips.

 

Edited by Alwin Alcott
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56 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

Everybody pays related to the amount they transfer and will feel the same pain. NO difference for me when i transfer my store earnings or escorting tips.

 

Well usually with people the greater the increase in fee the greater the pain. So, someone going from $25 to $250 a month will feel more pain than someone with an increase of say $5 a month. and the people who earn more are usually living on that income, a huge decrease in income of $250 will be felt more than the $5 a month.

And since you acknowledge the pain why are you arguing with people who are feeling it? Is it just to make them feel worse?

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13 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said:

Well ........l worse?

read your own logo/line under your name here and act to it.

 

and NO, the pain for small amounts is exactly the same as for large amounts: the fee for processing credit transactions (i.e. paying real money into a PayPal or Skrill account) will be 2.5% per transaction,

it's a flat rate, totally the same for everybody.

Edited by Alwin Alcott

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4 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

read your own logo/line under your name here and act to it.

 

and NO, the pain for small amounts is exactly the same as for large amounts: the fee for processing credit transactions (i.e. paying real money into a PayPal or Skrill account) will be 2.5% per transaction,

it's a flat rate, totally the same for everybody.

It’s not the raise in percent so much as making the cap 10x what is has been. Before, the cap was 25, now its 250. Which means you have to cash out over 10,001 to hit the cap, instead of 1001. So you end up paying 25 for each and every 1000, instead of just the first 1000.

Edited by Pamela Galli

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4 hours ago, Rya Nitely said:

Well usually with people the greater the increase in fee the greater the pain. So, someone going from $25 to $250 a month will feel more pain than someone with an increase of say $5 a month. and the people who earn more are usually living on that income, a huge decrease in income of $250 will be felt more than the $5 a month.

And since you acknowledge the pain why are you arguing with people who are feeling it? Is it just to make them feel worse?

Yes - that leaves them only with $9,750. They're barely scraping by...

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18 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Yes - that leaves them only with $9,750. They're barely scraping by...

Those are the creators who have put in the investment of their time and effort, and have therefore created the best products. It doesn't come easy. They're probably also paying for the software required to produce whatever they produce. And let's not forget tax.

The thing that drives such productivity is the money that can be made. It's a very sensitive thing to keep increasing fees, and still maintain trust. I understand that LL need the money, and probably should get a bigger portion. I'm not arguing against that. But 3 increases, and the last one being such a huge one, it would leave people nervous. Take away too much and it may no longer be worth it. I know how many hours I put in. I think I'm probably working for about $8 an hour. So, no - LL is definitely not a charity. I think I am, though.

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1 hour ago, Pamela Galli said:

It’s not the raise in percent so much as making the cap 10x what is has been. Before, the cap was 25, now its 250. Which means you have to cash out over 10,001 to hit the cap, instead of 1001. So you end up paying 25 for each and every 1000, instead of just the first 1000.

I'm wondering how much real-world commerce experience some of the Second Life "merchants" have. Somebody is going to be taking out fees out of every non-cash transaction. Every real-world credit card transaction requires the company taking it to pay a fee to the card organization (MasterCard, Visa, etc.) That's usually 1.5%-2% (no cap) plus a per-transaction fee of $0.10 but there are lists of different rates as long as your arm from each of the different card issuing organizations. To keep track of all the different fees merchants usually pay a credit-card processing company on top of that who straighten out things like the different fee rates for different levels of cards. That's why some businesses give cash discounts - as customers we never see all of this.

That's a pain for a small merchant (i.e. the level at which most Second Life merchants would be at), which is why Paypal was invented. Paypal charges 2.9% plus $0.30 per transaction, and that's just the U.S. rate. Someone selling "big-ticket" Second Life items (i.e. L$2500/US$10.00) would have an effective fee of 5.9% per transaction; someone selling L$250 hairstyles would have an effective fee rate of 32.9%.

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10 hours ago, Pamela Galli said:

Which means you have to cash out over 10,001 to hit the cap

There's no cap.

'.....will be 2.5% per transaction, with a $3 (USD) minimum, and no maximum.'

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 I know they said there would be no cap. But they state that there is a cap, when you process credit — on the page.

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