2024 - Will LL finally fully acknowledge the Adult side of SL?

[Bagnu]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, if you follow a lot of threads where this topic comes up, you will see some people absolutely claim and defend the notion that "it's about sex".  I find it disturbing, but hey - they are welcome to their opinion.  

I won't be defending that notion. There is much more in SL than just sex. We can only stay turned on for so long. I know I do more than just that, and so does everyone I know in the adult community. I'm sure some people DO use SL as pure porn, but they aren't on my friends list. But again, SL IS individual.. People have a right to do what they want (as long as it's legal, and doesn't hurt anyone).

[Persephone Emerald]

On 12/25/2023 at 2:31 AM, Marigold Devin said:

Our Zalificent, whose post you responded to, is actually hilarious, brutally honest, sharply cynical, and that's come from their own Second Life experiences. 

I agree that Zalifacent's particular posting style can be amusing, but I wouldn't call it brutally honest. Brutal, yes, but not always honest. Her "quotes" are sometimes more artistic interpretation than factual representation. 

On 12/25/2023 at 5:09 AM, Zalificent Corvinus said:

There was a post on this forum from a non mentor, reporting that they had been asked a question by a noob, and had responded, and were then "told off" by an Official Mentor, because only Official Mentors are supposed to give answers.

I was the person who posted that a Mentor at the Welcome Hub told me in private IM not to give advice to a newbie who had asked for help in open chat. Another person on this forum posted about a somewhat similar experience. 

Even so, I believe the current Mentor program is working great. One bad experience with one Mentor doesn't mean much compared to all the good work being done by these volunteers and the Moles overseeing them.

[Paul Hexem]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I always mention that it's a lot more important that you work on your emoting (rp skills) than the mechanics of it

Also, make sure it's the right RP.

Not everyone wants to grip your +2 dexterity wand.

[Bagnu]

12 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

it's what you say for most people and not what your cartoon body does.  

I will have to agree %100. There IS the occasional person who only enjoys the visuals, but they won't get many partners that way IMO. It's how we make someone feel that matters the most. The visuals are just an accompaniment. 

[Persephone Emerald]

On 12/25/2023 at 6:48 AM, Arwyn Quandry said:

I'm just curious how the Senra brand freenis is going to look. Are they going to come in different sizes and "states"? Will there be a Senra vajayjay? 

As a beginner, things like this should be simple. A female newbie doesn't need a vajayjay. An Adult skin with the approprate texture will do. A male newbie can make due with a free Hugsie pen!s from the Marketplace, until such a time as they decide they want to pay for a better mesh body, mesh head, and a better male genital attachment.

[Ceka Cianci]

56 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, if you follow a lot of threads where this topic comes up, you will see some people absolutely claim and defend the notion that "it's about sex".  I find it disturbing, but hey - they are welcome to their opinion.  

I think it's easy to get stuck in a community bubble and see things as that.. It happens  in a lot of things.. What ever someone wraps themselves up into and becomes involved with not just socially but atmosphere as well and all the little channels and content that float within that..

I had that happen in my early years in here with the clubs and working for one place for a couple of years.. Then broke from that and  it was like my whole sl opened up to so much more things and gave a much larger perspective  of communities and feel for the grid..

Not counting finding the forums and getting humbled over and over with what wide perspective that gave on things as well..

I thought I knew it all back then, like a teenager knows it all attitude.. lol

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Ceka Cianci

[Silent Mistwalker]

Second Life is a facsimile of real life. That's why it's called Second Life.

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 hours ago, Marigold Devin said:

The placement of genitals in Second Life has always had me howling with laughter. 

Guys, don't you have mirrors in real life? 

Holy crap - mashed potatoes and gravy all over the monitor now.

[Luna Bliss]

3 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I think it's easy to get stuck in a community bubble and see things as that.. It happens  in a lot of things.. What ever someone wraps themselves up into and becomes involved with not just socially but atmosphere as well and all the little channels and content that float within that..

SL is filled mainly with people meditating and doing dance rituals, cause everywhere I go this is happeningggg!!!   ;0

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

SL is filled mainly with people meditating and doing dance rituals, cause everywhere I go this is happeningggg!!!   ;0

Nuu Uhhh!  It big surf and  muscular hawt guys with ginormous sand draggers and me  on the beach doing my inventory!! \o/

Staap tryin ta burst mah Bubble!!

[Quartz Mole]

Any further discussion of the qualities or reputation of individual forum regulars is very much off-topic for this thread.    It is not a path we should explore any further.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Quartz Mole

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

On 12/20/2023 at 2:09 PM, LittleMe Jewell said:

Yeah, my guess is Adult Linden Homes. 

Linden Homes..now featuring Grandpa's Basement. For the preteen in you. 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Ingrid Ingersoll said:

Linden Homes..now featuring Grandpa's Basement. For the preteen in you. 

Trigger Warning: My grandpa used to make us sleep in the mostly "unfinished" basement when we visited, and locked us in for safety. Over the years, it felt more "comfortable" as I became used to it, but there were still parts of the basement I never explored.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
Fixed a word, removed an irrelevant quote that got in there.

[Ivanova Shostakovich]

6 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I won't be defending that notion. There is much more in SL than just sex. We can only stay turned on for so long. I know I do more than just that, and so does everyone I know in the adult community. I'm sure some people DO use SL as pure porn, but they aren't on my friends list. But again, SL IS individual.. People have a right to do what they want (as long as it's legal, and doesn't hurt anyone).

   Sometimes, I just want to write a script.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Ivanova Shostakovich said:

   Sometimes, I just want to write a script.

A prescription? I'll take two.

[Caitlin Tobias]

21 hours ago, Thecla said:

If you need help with learning about the birds and the bees, a mentor is the last place to look for help.

 

Actually, new residents can ask for help concerning adult activities, attachments etc, because it's a fact that a lot of questions newcomers (and not so new) have are about 'the birds and the bees' once they've figured out how to walk, talk and get (un)dressed.

And yes, not every mentor feels comfortable with this topic (or lacks the experience), so they can always request a mentor who does and has no issues in dealing with that, to take over and help someone out.

Just like some mentors are great in avatar customisation, building, roleplay, linden homes...etc, there are also mentors happy to assist in adult matters. 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

On 12/26/2023 at 8:55 AM, Love Zhaoying said:

I think, if you follow a lot of threads where this topic comes up, you will see some people absolutely claim and defend the notion that "it's about sex".  I find it disturbing, but hey - they are welcome to their opinion.  

There's also always a lot of folks that want to remind us they are ashamed of a natural part of the human experience. Something that should be celebrated as a main driver in bringing us together gets called out as shameful. That is what I find disturbing. Not saying that's you - but it is in this thread as well as all other threads like it.

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

5 hours ago, Caitlin Tobias said:

Actually, new residents can ask for help concerning adult activities, attachments etc, because it's a fact that a lot of questions newcomers (and not so new) have are about 'the birds and the bees' once they've figured out how to walk, talk and get (un)dressed.

And yes, not every mentor feels comfortable with this topic (or lacks the experience), so they can always request a mentor who does and has no issues in dealing with that, to take over and help someone out.

One of my very first experiences in SL was sitting in a sandbox trying to figure out how to get a prop I had bought to work. xCite I think - to give me anatomy in an attachment. And I was constantly breaking new copies I was pulling out of inventory, until some guy walk up and volunteered to help me figure it out.

I was actually more disturbed that he didn't hit on me than if he had because that was the outcome I'd expect from a moment like that. But he was just trying to help a noob and that began my process of learning how to exam how things in SL work.

So yeah. Having mentors that are willing and able to help with such questions is something I can greatly appreciate. Even if that guy wasn't an official helper or anything - just a friendly person in a random sandbox.

 

As an aside: the main reason I had bought that item back then is that I'd recently had an encounter with an employee of whatever company owned Poser back then who told me that there was no need for the female model to have lower anatomy because there was nothing down there for which detail could be seen so nothing to model - and then I tried SL and here were people selling props like I'd been asking for (there were people doing that in Poser too back then, I just hadn't found them yet). On hindsight - I realize that was my first encounter with an incel.

I had yet to develop the desire to 'do things' with the prop. I was just glad to be able to finally model bodily completeness - even if in a lower rez tool than the art tool I'd been in up to that moment.

Edited December 27, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Silent Mistwalker]

I don't think it's shameful; it just isn't very high on my list of priorities. At my age, that priority is likely only going to get lower. 🤷‍♀️

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

There's also always a lot of folks that want to remind us they are ashamed of a natural part of the human experience. Something that should be celebrated as a main driver in bringing us together gets called out as shameful. That is what I find disturbing. Not saying that's you - but it is in this thread as well as all other threads like it.

 

I don't think I'm "correcting" you in what I say below, because I don't think you require "correction." I'm just using your post as a sort of jumping-off point, so please don't be offended or assume I'm criticizing you!

There is absolutely nothing shameful about sex -- in RL or in SL. It's a vital part of who we are.

But it is a vital part of who we are: we are defined by so much else as well. If we met someone in RL who was almost solely preoccupied with sexuality, who defined themselves singularly by sexual desire and the pursuit of its fulfillment, we'd probably think (likely correctly) that that person suffered from some form of pathology.

If we met someone in RL whose sense of others was constrained almost exclusively by their evaluation of their sexuality, or sexual desirability, we'd likely also have problems with that. "So and so has a great body!" as the sole determinant of a person's value and being? Yeah, no.

Our sexuality is a vital component of the incredibly complex matrix of all the many things, nature and nurture, wilful and unwilling, that make us all individuals.

And SL reflects that fact wonderfully: it's an incredibly diverse world that enables a nearly endless array of possible activities and identities.

The problem with narrowing that openness, and defining SL exclusively, or even primarily, as a place for sex and hookups, is that it narrows us as well. If you are an active participant on a platform that is mostly about sex, then you have de facto defined, and limited, yourself as a sexual being, to the exclusion of the many other things that you are or can be.

So, I have zero problems, personally, with throwing some light on sexuality in SL. The danger arises when or if that comes to be seen as the defining characteristic of the platform. As it is, SL already possesses something of a reputation in that regard.

And that's why this needs to be done, if it is to be done, with care and thoughtfulness. Because changing the identity and nature of the platform also, perforce, changes the identity of everyone active on it.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

There's also always a lot of folks that want to remind us they are ashamed of a natural part of the human experience. Something that should be celebrated as a main driver in bringing us together gets called out as shameful. That is what I find disturbing. Not saying that's you - but it is in this thread as well as all other threads like it.

 

Yep! And as with everything else, there's a "continuum" of those who despise / those who tolerate /  those who support / those who celebrate "a thing". Anyone on that spectrum "can be toxic" about their own attitudes vs. the attitudes of others regarding "a thing".

Myself, I am fine with being "thing positive", but generally explode when confronted with those who demand "the thing is THIS way, and everyone else is wrong". 

Replace "thing" with bots, microparcels, land barons, furries, sex, kink, violence, religion, politics, acceptance of others, morals, etc. (and any and all "forbidden" topics). Anything "you" don't like, "they" have the wrong attitude on, and vice-versa. (The figurative "you".)

 

[Gabriele Graves]

If you are easily triggered by me or my opinions,  I would advise you to just scoot on by.  You know who you are.

There is no actual sex in SL.  There, I've said it and I think it needs to be said as this is the reality.

At most it is the depiction, roleplay or emoting/description of sex and related adult activities using SL avatars as a proxy.

I'm not talking about sex over audio/video feeds because both parties are engaging in it from RL directly without a proxy involved and don't need SL for that.

I'm not talking about intimacy either because that's a distinct thing.

Actual real sex is not possible in SL (just in case some are too immersed to realise).

As an aside, it's interesting that many people who claim not to be immersion-ists in SL and not interested in roleplay or in the roleplay characters of others do in fact immerse themselves in this as much as any other roleplayer does and don't seem to realise that their avatar is still a character of a sort even if they try to imbue it with as much of themselves as they can and portray a human with their avatar.

However, I digress.

Should LL promote graphic depictions of sex and other adult activities?

Sex is part of life and nothing to be ashamed of.  I absolutely 100% subscribe to this.  However, in RL we mostly keep these activities private.  It can be argued that this shouldn't be so but the facts are that it is and the mass public don't seem to want this to change in most places in the world.

Second Life is not going to be the place to change the world view from.

What we do in SL can be likened to an interactive game that produces what can be reduced to simplest form as a video production, even if that is live and not being stored anywhere.

Depictions of sex in video games is regulated and this includes the promotion of games.  The result is that game promotion is as tame as possible mostly not focusing on any adult activities that might feature in the game so that publishers can reach the maximum potential audience with their promotions.  The rating for games tells parents whether those games are suitable for children because the promotion does not indicate this in it's visuals or descriptions.

So that really leaves actual videos as the other thing that can be likened to adult activities in SL.  Again, video content and it's promotion is regulated and only the tamest of stuff is ever promoted to the mass public.  Again, the promotion of films and series is limited to mostly the tamest sexy/racy scenes for few really push the boundaries lest the censors in various countries ban them.

Anecdote: Mainstream movies from the seventies seem to have a lot more full nudity and depictions of sex than at any other point in time since then.

So we now get to porn, actual porn.  In most countries, the masses are not exposed to porn or the promotion of porn through any mainstream media.  Sure anyone can access it over the internet but you have to do so deliberately as there is no passive exposure.

This tells me that the public appetite for this being promoted to the masses is as non-existent as it always has been as no political career was ever destroyed by their inability to embrace a porn culture.

With this in mind, should we expect LL to be any different from those other mainstream companies?  Especially if they are still chasing the dream of a more mainstream appeal?

It seems to me that heavily and obviously promoting sex and adult activities would be counter-productive to that goal.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with LL promoting Second Life in a sexier and spicier fashion than they have before.  That is what happens in games and videos.  They hint and tease that there might be more sexy than often there is with their productions with some notable exceptions.  This is where Second Life would end up delivering far more than would be hinted at.

Subtlety is everything and as they say, less is more.

Finally we get to my answer to the question posed by the OP.

I trust that LL will understand that subtlety is necessary and important and that while I expect this new endeavour to be promoted as sexier/spicier than before whilst hinting at even more that they will ultimately draw the line at what is generally acceptable in the mainstream.  There's nothing wrong with any of that.
 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Gabriele Graves

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I don't think I'm "correcting" you in what I say below, because I don't think you require "correction." I'm just using your post as a sort of jumping-off point, so please don't be offended or assume I'm criticizing you!

There is absolutely nothing shameful about sex -- in RL or in SL. It's a vital part of who we are.

But it is a vital part of who we are: we are defined by so much else as well. If we met someone in RL who was almost solely preoccupied with sexuality, who defined themselves singularly by sexual desire and the pursuit of its fulfillment, we'd probably think (likely correctly) that that person suffered from some form of pathology.

If we met someone in RL whose sense of others was constrained almost exclusively by their evaluation of their sexuality, or sexual desirability, we'd likely also have problems with that. "So and so has a great body!" as the sole determinant of a person's value and being? Yeah, no.

Our sexuality is a vital component of the incredibly complex matrix of all the many things, nature and nurture, wilful and unwilling, that make us all individuals.

And SL reflects that fact wonderfully: it's an incredibly diverse world that enables a nearly endless array of possible activities and identities.

The problem with narrowing that openness, and defining SL exclusively, or even primarily, as a place for sex and hookups, is that it narrows us as well. If you are an active participant on a platform that is mostly about sex, then you have de facto defined, and limited, yourself as a sexual being, to the exclusion of the many other things that you are or can be.

So, I have zero problems, personally, with throwing some light on sexuality in SL. The danger arises when or if that comes to be seen as the defining characteristic of the platform. As it is, SL already possesses something of a reputation in that regard.

And that's why this needs to be done, if it is to be done, with care and thoughtfulness. Because changing the identity and nature of the platform also, perforce, changes the identity of everyone active on it.

I really didn't see a lot of sex shaming in this thread, to be honest.  People have expressed the opinion that SL isn't ALL about sex or, like me and you, don't engage in it.  But shaming?  Didn't notice that or I missed it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

49 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I really didn't see a lot of sex shaming in this thread, to be honest.  People have expressed the opinion that SL isn't ALL about sex or, like me and you, don't engage in it.  But shaming?  Didn't notice that or I missed it.

No, neither have I.

I think the "pearl clutchers" are a convenient myth.

[Gabriele Graves]

I agree with both Rowan and you that there has been no shaming from what I've read.

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think the "pearl clutchers" are a convenient myth.

No it's not a convenient myth.  It's ascribing a derogatory name to people who disagree as a way of dismissing their views and attempting cow others from making similar viewpoints for fear of being tarred by the same brush.