Where are the Lindens?

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I did not no that others know who I follow has any importance, but okay, here is mine than:

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I follow nobody.

Mostly I follow them for announcements and to see their contributions to threads.

Not just for sharts and gargles or to fanboy. Except Patch.

[Patch Linden]

I found Lindens!   This is what they look like!

 

 

 

[Eirynne Sieyes]

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

The one time I ran into a Mole in world --- I knew he was busy with something.  So I just said "Great job!" and went on.  He PMed me back saying thank you and he was helping make a new Resident experience.

I'm with you Kimmy. I love to watch what they are doing, especially when they are building. But I purposely don't bother them. (Except sometimes if there is a Bear involved.) 😁

[Bagnu]

6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Hmm.

Too often of late, the appearance of bona fide Lindens here has meant thread locks and suspensions. Or that at least has been my experience.

I think I much prefer our Moles, tyvm.

I really know nothing about the situation with the Lindens. But RL experiences in my younger years have shown me that the sudden appearance of administrative powers is NOT (usually) a good omen.  So I would tend to agree with you Scyll. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Bagnu said:

I really know nothing about the situation with the Lindens. But RL experiences in my younger years have shown me that the sudden appearance of administrative powers is NOT (usually) a good omen.  So I would tend to agree with you Scyll. 

Well, I haven't met a LOT of the Lindens, and, as I've noted before, I've only ever engaged with one I didn't much like (and in fairness to him, he got grumpy with me because I'd show up to his office hours and ask questions he really didn't want to, or perhaps couldn't, answer).

I think most of them are probably lovely. I don't even resent the ones who've handed me suspensions or wrist slappings: they're just doing their job, however much I might disagree with the decision. I'm sure it's not personal. And it's also of course important to remember that they are not omnipotent gods: they are employees of a medium-sized corporation that hands down policy decisions from on high. I'm willing to give them credit where I think it is due, and mostly not blame them, personally, for things I think are wrong.

But . . .

. . . while in the past, the appearance of Lindens here to talk to residents was generally a good thing, and meant engaging with the community, providing insight and information, or even just bantering with us, more recently their appearances here have been associated with, as I say, locked threads and suspensions.

All those locked threads, and suspensions a while back over "the bot issue" -- those were all handed out directly by Lindens, who seem to have been tasked, maybe against their own better judgement, with getting us to shut up about it. If they were at all "god-like," it was sort of Old Testament smiting, rather than something more beneficent. And their responses to those threads were, if not exactly falsehoods, certainly prevarications. Again, I'm sure not their fault.

Which is what makes this new "Here Are the Lindens" thread so nice and refreshing. It's nice to see them here, not as punishers or enforcers, but rather as members of a large community we all share.

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..if the Governor did not abandon it, then how would anyone know it is available.

Maybe you were making a joke?

I assume that most normal "abandoned land" does NOT show as owned by Governor Linden.

Study abandoned land more, Love, no, that's not how it works. MOST abandoned land in fact shows it is owned by Governor Linden. She leaves it there on her group for that sim -- sometimes for years on end. Or sometimes she eventually sets it to auction. Or yet again, ANOTHER Linden somehow gains control of her land and sets it to YOU if you ask to buy it for $1/m. 

Sometimes, for mysterious reasons, she abandons her own land yet remains its owner because -- magic. Game god. You know, like that. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:56 PM, steeljane42 said:

I have seen quite a few Lindens around over the years. Even around this year's Fantasy Faire alone I saw around 5 or 6 different ones (just around different regions exploring the builds as I didn't went to any performances/events). I saw a few during last year's black friday sales in the popular stores too and one of them was demo-ing hair, so definitely weren't there to clean up some griefer mess or something like that.

I'm sure there's more around, either hidden or on their non LL accounts, though. Because each time I see one people tend to swarm around them and it's probably quite exhausting to deal with it everywhere daily.

I was involved in FF this year and travelled all over and went to events and never saw a single Linden or Mole. And that's fine, right? They're there to wrangle sims with heavy traffic and kept them humming -- they are like translators, and like people wish children *weren't* -- they are heard but not seen.

The reason why so many people in this thread are gushing about Lindens they see in world is because they go to Linden/resident events as fanboyz and fangirlz or just supporters of a cause. So they go to Dunk-A-Linden RFL this, or Kiss-A-Linden Save the Children that, or Bid a Linden Bald the next thing, or Jail and Bail a Linden at Fantasy Faire -- also for RFL -- that is, some charity LL sponsors in its good will, or some other Bellisseria event like Hamster Day or some other Stamp Stomp. I collect stamps, too. Actually, about 3 years ago? I saw Patch briefly collecting a stamp I was collecting -- Patch is the kind of guy like me, who will get up in the middle of the night and go collect a nice stamp off a venue in the stamp game.

But while I, too, contribute to RFL (I was a contributing merchant at FF this year and also hit many tip jars), I avoid anything called "Jail 'n Bail" because half my relatives were in the GULAG, and the other half have been through Rikers or Spofford or what have you, and don't think of jail as "fun". If other people don't mind jail-themed or BDSM-themed or any-restraint-themed events, that's perfectly fine. Let 1,000 flowers bloom and let a 100 schools of thought contend. It's just not my school of thought and I'd like that same freedom you have.

There is a whole industry of Linden office-houring -- I go once a year because I have high blood pressure AND hemolytic anemia and I like to care for my RL health, not at the expense of my SL.

There are still more fanning opps with Moles in particular IF you live in Bellisseria and go to the right parties; if you live in Bay City which is one of their beloved communities and go to *those* right parties; and yes, if you are in Corsica South Coast, where actually I also contribute land and donations and very rarely go to the right events where yes, now that I think of it, there's a Linden who occasionally comes to support live music.

But I don't "live in" Bellisseria and avoid Bay City -- I already live in a RL urban environment and prefer, you know, open fields, streams, mountains, etc. That is, I live on what we like to call "the Legacy Mainland". Not where you live, in such a nest of Moles you have to put out signs "Don't Feed the Moles" (I actually have one of those signs I put up in Slosser).

So as I said, I *feel* the Lindens' many good works rather than *see the Lindens* -- there's this bot called Zippy or Skippy or something that resets your sim for you now -- he's a sort of Linden. We put in requests for abandoned land now and then, or there is some kind of odd problem on a sim, and Lindens named "Jessica" or "Jeremy" or "Jason" or some other modern "J" name like all the kids have now and that's great. I didn't name my kids in RL with Jay names (one of whom is also in SL) but I appreciate J names. My father was a J in his day.

The Moles have more "creative" names often highlighting some aspect of their character -- I think there's a "Bashful" and a "Prancer" and even a "Dasher" and I believe there's still a "Goofy," no? Didn't he make some of the trees way out at the butt end of Hetero-etcera?

So all kidding aside, I truly haven't seen any Lindens or Moles. Last year, at the birthday, I would have expected to see them; one of them made a freebie mart at a landing and IM'd me to put out freebies -- but it was so terribly laggy last year I didn't get through their hunt or get even to much of the live music.

This isn't a criticism. God made the world in 7 days and who the hell knows what He has been doing since then, you know? You see and feel His works but He doesn't manifest Himself. When you go to Disney World, usually you don't see the guy who plays Mickey Mouse out of uniform, so to speak. That's why I was startled to see "Ben Linden"  -- my very first Linden in 2004  -- standing in the water at Waterhead building a game.

I think it's important to understand that I don't need Lindens to manifest in our world any more than I need Jesus or the Virgin Mary to manifest in RL -- I still believe in them in my particular faith. If the Virgin Mary was at my elbow every day, in fact I might come to believe in her less, you know? Because if she had time to get up in my grill, I'd wonder why she or her son weren't trying to prevent little children in Ukraine from being killed.

I feel as if I've strayed from my original point here. Happy SL20B! You don't need Lindens (the people) or Linden dollars to have fun in SL or to have deep meaningful, religious, philosophical, or social experiences in a virtual world. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

This isn't a criticism.

Good, glad and surprised.

[Love Zhaoying]

34 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Study abandoned land more, Love, no, that's not how it works. MOST abandoned land in fact shows it is owned by Governor Linden. She leaves it there on her group for that sim -- sometimes for years on end. Or sometimes she eventually sets it to auction. Or yet again, ANOTHER Linden somehow gains control of her land and sets it to YOU if you ask to buy it for $1/m. 

Sometimes, for mysterious reasons, she abandons her own land yet remains its owner because -- magic. Game god. You know, like that. 

Sounds like a bug.

[Prokofy Neva]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Good, glad and surprised.

ChatGPT is getting really, really good, and already being used as psychiatrists, social workers, caregivers for the elderly and such. So I think in time there will be enough of this "care" for people needing attention and companionship in games and virtual worlds to be requited.

I was once building on my public lot in The Sims Online what had some name like "Paradise" with elaborate pyramids and suns and stuff, and this child of 12 appeared who seemed to need care and feeding. He pointed to various sites and his speech was definitely that of a child, not an adult playing one -- they were allowed in TSO. He seemed distressed so I asked where Mom was -- she was at work late. "Where's Dad?" I said, the question that is most often relevant on the Internet.

"He's in RL Heaven," he told me

I've never forgotten that. "RL Heaven". I hope to get to "RL Heaven" someday -- meanwhile, we're in God's Waiting Room on the Internet, Second Life. AKA "Purgatory".

In the meantime, I think there is a certain type of person in a game or world who wants the devs, the GMs, the game gods, the Moles, to be their friend because they are needy. That's fine, everyone could use affection. But I think there aren't enough Lindens or Moles to go around to fulfill the needs of even that relatively small cohort of folks. I remember someone on here once said she wish the Moles didn't have to work so hard so they could "play with the residents". 

Um, what? When I work at the 7/11 or USPS or Xerox or Moscow Times or Healthcare DataEntryHellhole as currently, there isn't anybody anywhere who wants me to "work less hard" so I can "play with them more". All of us want to get far, far away from that place and go somewhere else, you know? You know how you go in the store to shop and the clerk keeps hovering by you to make a sale? You wish she'd go away.

At one time in our history, Lindens were people who five minutes before that, had been residents. Today, that's less and less the case, so I think it's unfair to assume their favourite thing to do is hang out on a virtual dance floor and click on their avatar.

That's why this genre of "people doing jobs in a game or virtual world must be my playmates" is essentially alien to me. I noticed in the Sims Online 24 years ago -- 24 years ago! some of you are only that age now! -- that this woman named "Tigger" who had been put out to be a sort of "GM" (game manager) or "liaison" inworld in fact was brutally squeezed between indifferent or rapacious game devs and grasping or desperate executives and the yawning jaw of the user base. The poor woman was crunched into tiny pieces. In fact her job *was* to be ground to bits between two opposing forces, which one might call "Content" and "Discontent".

I think it's safe to safe none of these folks you want to be "on time and in full" or "visible and present" and even "fun" are likely paid enough. If they do make what programmers make in Silicon Valley (and I've never seen that they do), they aren't user-facing. 

As I said, chatGPT is actually going through a dumbing down now that feels like Flowers for Algernon for some of us, but it will be smarter and smarter and able to be your friend soon enough.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sounds like a bug.

It's far too common to be a bug. Go around and look at 25 sims. You'll soon get the idea. Don't go by the one sim you are on.

[Patch Linden]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:23 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

The last time I saw a Linden in the wild, i.e. not by TPing into their scheduled office hours like that "MonDieux" meeting, was...let me think...2006, was it? <snip>

 

I have assisted you in world directly when I was a support agent several times, that had to be post 2007 because that's when I started.   We crossed paths not long ago in a Linden Homes region.  You said "Hi".   I said "Hi".  I felt shy so I ran off.   I then crossed paths with you again at Fantasy Faire.  I guess you don't remember.  💔

[Phil Deakins]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think most of them are probably lovely. I don't even resent the ones who've handed me suspensions or wrist slappings: they're just doing their job, however much I might disagree with the decision. I'm sure it's not personal.

I don't completely agree with you. I do agree that probably most of them are "lovely", but there are odd ones who do "their job" so badly that they are not at all lovely. I'll be honest and say that I am thinking of one particular forum Linden who I've known makes decisions based on sheer stupidity and 'just because s/he could' (power). So ridiculously stupid that another forum Linden overturned one decision that I complained about. And there are, or have been, others.

No, they are not all "lovely".

Edited June 2, 2023 by Phil Deakins

[Toothless Draegonne]

People who think they've never met the Bear Containment Units have probably met more of them than they think.

What, you think they all wander around in world casting blue dots on the map and looking obvious in-world and in-forum? Believe it or not, some of them have alts. Probably so people like me don't jump on their head and start whacking them with balloon swords like some kind of pinata. 😄

[Silent Mistwalker]

I have to agree with Phil. Although he is long gone now, Lee L was one of the worst "CS agents" I have ever dealt with.  I should never have had to make that many phone calls to keep from losing my land because LL screwed up when they stopped accepting AmEx gift cards and didn't bother letting residents know until it was too late.  

[Prokofy Neva]

11 hours ago, Patch Linden said:

I have assisted you in world directly when I was a support agent several times, that had to be post 2007 because that's when I started.   We crossed paths not long ago in a Linden Homes region.  You said "Hi".   I said "Hi".  I felt shy so I ran off.   I then crossed paths with you again at Fantasy Faire.  I guess you don't remember.  💔

Patch, 

If you're asking me to remember something that happened before the pandemic, but after 9/11, I can't help you. 2007 was both a good and bad year for LL and all of us for lots of reasons; I don't recall you helping me as a liaison back then, sorry although I do remember certain things from 2007!

But...Notice I said we "crossed paths" -- I believe that was in a Linden Homes region. I'm pretty certain that was a stamp location, with a guy who had actual prim stamps along with the HUD stamp, you know? Remember? Like 50 individual stamps? Art works? This was literally in the middle of the night, my time AND your time, and you were just collecting the guy's stamp because the notice had just come out on Lord J's newsletter. I don't recall that there was any long conversation because, you know, "gotta get 'em all" down the rest of the stamp list.

Oh, I do remember I asked you for YOUR stamp because there had just been one of these charity things. And you said we don't give out the stamps except at the event. And I said I went to the Hippiestock or the Rally or whatever it was but it was so laggy, I didn't get up to the get-Linden-stamp staging area. So you said, ok, "Just this once."

As for this past 2023 Fantasy Faire, I am truly wracking my brain for where I could have seen you. I remember being on a really long, twisty, snowy path with flashing patterns for days -- weeks -- years in the last part of the quest. I didn't go to the Jail 'n Bail as explained above; I didn't go to many of the events this year because of incredibly horrible lag. I had a store, I did shop, I did wander around with friends, and I did what I always do every year, try to walk across the entire thing one way, and then back the other way.

I'm still trying to figure out why it was so laggy, I couldn't even log in; I couldn't last for 5 minutes; if I lasted, I only hear the sound track --  when I have the same computer and graphics card I did last year, and presumably the FF staff had the same sims  regions and you had the same sims regions, right? And yes, the graphic drivers were updated. So what happened? I puzzled everywhere and have some theories but I don't think it was your fault. Someone said there were way more regions this year and way more visitors but not sure.

Room chat is preserved in "chat" logs so I'll check.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

I have to agree with Phil. Although he is long gone now, Lee L was one of the worst "CS agents" I have ever dealt with.  I should never have had to make that many phone calls to keep from losing my land because LL screwed up when they stopped accepting AmEx gift cards and didn't bother letting residents know until it was too late.  

I loved Lee Linden like a brother. Lee and I danced together at the Concierge Ball, back when they had them. Lee was a True Linden, back when Lindens were True Lindens, especially Altruima Linden. 

Lee said the truest, the most essential, the most wonderful thing I have ever heard anywhere, in any game, in any virtual world, on any CMS, on any social media:

"The sims are at their best when there are no avatars on them."

 

[Love Zhaoying]

10 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I don't completely agree with you. I do agree that probably most of them are "lovely", but there are odd ones who do "their job" so badly that they are not at all lovely. I'll be honest and say that I am thinking of one particular forum Linden who I've known makes decisions based on sheer stupidity and 'just because s/he could' (power). So ridiculously stupid that another forum Linden overturned one decision that I complained about. And there are, or have been, others.

No, they are not all "lovely".

Without "bad Lindens", we would have nothing with which to compare "good Lindens"! 
 

..Me talk good one day..

[Bagnu]

19 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

"The sims are at their best when there are no avatars on them."

 

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. What is the point of HAVING a sim, if there are no people there? No one to see it.  Isn't interacting with others the entire point of BEING in SL? I sure as hell wouldn't have bothered to work on mine, or more correctly "ours", if my SL wife wasn't, well, in SL, and as excited about it as I am!!! 

[Prokofy Neva]

12 hours ago, Bagnu said:

I'm not sure I understand this correctly. What is the point of HAVING a sim, if there are no people there? No one to see it.  Isn't interacting with others the entire point of BEING in SL? I sure as hell wouldn't have bothered to work on mine, or more correctly "ours", if my SL wife wasn't, well, in SL, and as excited about it as I am!!! 

Bagnu, it's a Zen koan. It is the sound of one hand clapping. It is your face before you were born. It is the perfect sim, servers spinning beautifully in the ether...

Seekers, Everything You Know Is Wrong

 

[Bagnu]

5 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Bagnu, it's a Zen koan. It is the sound of one hand clapping. It is your face before you were born. It is the perfect sim, servers spinning beautifully in the ether...

Seekers, Everything You Know Is Wrong

 

Now I understand.  I still disagree, but I understand.

[Rolig Loon]

It's what professors have said for generations about universities. They would be wonderful places if it weren't for all the students. 😉

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

It's what professors have said for generations about universities. They would be wonderful places if it weren't for all the students. 😉

Like stores and customers, or libraries and books!

 

[Ardy Lay]

unobserved collections

unperturbed sets

undisturbed systems