EliseAnne85 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Bots that automatically spam me with chat and inventory offers should be banished into the neverlands. Spamming is against the TOS. So, spamming or self-promoting bots should be banned. I think they should have bots that look different like droids that is recognizable to all as a droid bot, but cannot look like an avatar. If they are a bot account, they should also sign in as a BOT account and then perhaps have to buy a LL droid. * Spamming, such as the repeated posting of advertising or self-promotional content https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards Edited January 22, 2023 by EliseAnne85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwar Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I bet bots add to the user count, which makes LL look better for average SL user counts. I bet bots provide a service to those interested in buying / selling land. I bet bots provide a service to those interested in which mesh bodies / heads are popular. I bet bots provide a useful service in mapping SL. None of that benefits me. BAN THE BOTS!!1!! I bet insulin is really nifty for diabetics .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezbeharra Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said: I think they should have bots that look different like droids that is recognizable to all as a droid bot, but cannot look like an avatar. You're describing a fair number of avatars that have human players. Anyway it doesn't matter. Restrictions on bots require ways to easily distinguish bots from human players (lol good luck!), otherwise you're just restricting the bots whose owners willingly identify them, who probably aren't doing anything annoying or bad anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Pole Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Assuming that the people who created these automated avatars have followed the rules they will have registered them as a scripted agent. Personally I see nothing wrong with having that scripted agent status appended to the account data down in profile.... for example Resident No Payment Info on File Scripted Agent However something in my gut tells me that a great many of the avatars we see in world that are either just standing around (mostly in a skybox) or otherwise not acting like a human is in control of them are automated avatars that have not been registered as such. As LL do not publish the scripted avatar status on the profile it makes is hard to report violations of them not being registered too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 10 minutes ago, Orwar said: I bet insulin is really nifty for diabetics .. Bots may be sweet for some people, but not enough for the diabeetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Randy Pole said: followed the rules Apparently, the rules only apply to some people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliseAnne85 Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, Ezbeharra said: who probably aren't doing anything annoying or bad anyway Key word above > "probably"? I think some of them are very, very annoying, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I thought at one point when they were first coming out that scripted agents were supposed to show as yellow or some other color.. Whatever happened to that?Too many of those dots showing up or something? hehehehe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 I have an idea! Allow all, no..REQUIRE ALL Bots to "take damage" (be pushed, etc.) in no-damage / no-push areas. It's not possible to "grief" a bot, right? Gamify Bot-hunting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, LittleMe Jewell said: Bots modeling clothing in stores or designed to answer some basic questions are fine, IMO. Bots providing role-play type characters for additional realism in regions - fine by me, let them be. Bots gathering info - I've decided I don't care about them (as long as they haven't managed to find an exploit that lets them get info they should not). Bots that automatically spam me with chat and inventory offers should be banished into the neverlands. The issue of trying to stop specific behavior is that we, and LL, have no idea what any given bot is intended to be used for, or going to be used for, or any guarantee that it'll keep being used in a given way. So the only options really are ban all bots, make them easily identifiable (and enforce that rule), or change nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimKoul Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 30 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said: Spamming is against the TOS. So, spamming or self-promoting bots should be banned. I think they should have bots that look different like droids that is recognizable to all as a droid bot, but cannot look like an avatar. If they are a bot account, they should also sign in as a BOT account and then perhaps have to buy a LL droid. * Spamming, such as the repeated posting of advertising or self-promotional content https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards Both the TOS and and privacy policies are complete jokes. If bots can gather all our information and post it all outside of SL and that's totally fine then there's no point in having either. Mind you, LL can change and update their TOS and policies at any time to accommodate whatever they want. That said, bots should be banned considering all they do is datamine. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Kiyori Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Please no banning me. [sad robot noises] On a less joking side, nearly every online game/service/soical thing has bot problems. I do like the idea of them being labled bot if they are helpful or harmless bots. As for a dot colour. purpl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 This topic is possibly doomed so this will be my only comment. I dislike bots that turn up on my parcels, because they are not coming to visit me, or take a look at my parcels and perhaps enjoy them. No, they are coming as leeches, just to suck up data. They have no interest in me as a person. If they turn up in my security log they get banned. The problem for me is that eventually I'll hit the limit, which is a handy thing to know if you're a bot owner. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, TimKoul said: That said, bots should be banned considering all they do is datamine. This is objectively false, and the fact that they do so many other things is why I posed the initial question. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 38 minutes ago, WereBeast Alpha said: Some bots are essential i know a few landlords i rented from use bots to restart sims at random times during the week. These are the very bots I'd like to see disabled because they invite the lamest Linden development excuses, which somehow residents have accepted as legitimate reasons for not developing perfectly reasonable scripting features. There is simply no reason a script with the same permissions as an avatar can't perform all the same functions as an avatar, subject to the same restrictions. Put another way, every viewer feature should operate only through an API exposed to scripts, and all throttles and restrictions that apply to one interface path should apply identically to the other. Besides obviating the need for probably half the bots on the grid, this would improve SL service reliability by providing an easily automated test interface for every single feature—including especially security-sensitive features. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Banning bots is a great idea!! It removes the ability to game traffic, apparent popularity, modelling and AFK with dead fake "avatars". Places will have to put real people in those positions , and compensate them. Land surveys will have to be done in person, this levels and resets the playing field. Successful property management will depend on who has the better human resources not who has the bigger bot army / dataset. Stalkers will have to stalk you in person. The old fashioned way. A net saving in virtual shotgun ammo. LL will have to make up for lost functionality with group inviters and land management (etc) by expanding LSL and advancing the platform. NPC characters will need to depend on scripted control and pathfinding, shining a light on parts of the platform sorely needing developer attention. No more automated wholesale content theft (oh yes, this is a thing). Banning the bots will restore purpose to actual people in SL. Edited January 22, 2023 by Coffee Pancake 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: LL will have to make up for lost functionality with group inviters and land management (etc) by expanding LSL and advancing the platform. NPC characters will need to depend on scripted control and pathfinding, shining a light on parts of the platform sorely needing developer attention. My fear is that LL would ban bots, and then not add the developer attention or script functions we need to make up for the loss. We know from experience that LL's favorite thing in life is to do stuff only halfway. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Just now, Paul Hexem said: My fear is that LL would ban bots, and then not add the developer attention or script functions we need to make up for the loss. We know from experience that LL's favorite thing in life is to do stuff only halfway. I know .. and those gaps will need to be filled by people. This brings back getting a job in SL. Sure, 99% of those jobs will be hobby & for the fun of it, but we need that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said: The issue of trying to stop specific behavior is that we, and LL, have no idea what any given bot is intended to be used for, or going to be used for, or any guarantee that it'll keep being used in a given way. So the only options really are ban all bots, make them easily identifiable (and enforce that rule), or change nothing. And by closing the two previous threads while pointing to the fact that the Lab finds everything is within their rules as far as bots are concerned, nothing will change. We will have to live with it or leave I guess. I've just decided to live with it. Edited January 22, 2023 by Sid Nagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Just now, Sid Nagy said: And by closing the two precious threads pointing to the fact that the Lab finds everything is within their rules as far as bots are concerned, nothing will change. We will have to live with it or leave I guess. I've just decided to live with it. This thread is not like those threads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Nagy Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: This thread is not like those threads. Well at least partly. Most participants are just a bit more carefully tiptoeing through the minefield this time and diplomatically beating around the bush by keeping it a tad more general. Edited January 22, 2023 by Sid Nagy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmi Zehetbauer Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Ezbeharra said: Well you don't have to worry because if you look at any MMO that has active bot policing (probably most of them), it's way more effort than LL is likely to ever put into anything. And that's not even counting the use of third party clients in SL, which throws quite a wrench into the works. Some MMOs ignore the bots. My man played a game called Rappelz and remember seeing tons of bots in there from spamming chat with a website to buy gold to "farming" ones. He sent tickets in, nothing was done. He contacted a Mod and they said they were powerless. As for SL, there should be a setting for them. I do have a feeling this thread will get turfed though since the bot thing been bought up few times before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Botting in MMOs breaks the economies and forces the developers to scale content and collectables based on exaggerated supply. This is especially bad in Warcraft where crafting quantities depend on bots collecting materials. Bots add nothing of value to a virtual space, ever. papering over the platform and balance problems with automated agents is a mistake. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkleSpice Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said: Bots add nothing of value to a virtual space, ever. papering over the platform and balance problems with automated agents is a mistake. Are you serious with this statement? Like you seriously believe that bots can provide nothing of value?🤠 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myra Loveless Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said: That's just what has to change. To operate a bot -- a scripted agent as they are called on your account -- you have to sign a form. There's no technical reasons why these scripted agents can't be labelled the way residents and Lindens are labelled. None at all. The reasons are only political - it's a hangover of Turingism, about wanting to make computers people and give them rights. They want the bots to pass the "Turing test" and fool people, and thinks that great -- because *they* are in charge of this. It's about the power to wrangle bots, really, not so much even the bots themselves. Power over other people, pure and simple. There is a possible consequence of that though. Due to the privilege bot operators have had in regards to not being labeled differently on viewer end of other users, it may cause bot operators to find ways to dodge the system that detects unregistered scripted agents. I advise to be careful about starting an arms race when it might be as simple as training a deep learning AI to pass well enough as a human... "turingism" as you put it. I'm not saying that will happen, but I feel confident in the prediction based on my knowledge of human behavior. Also, "scripted agents" isn't my term. That's LL's term. I'm simply using the wording they use for that specific system of voluntarily registering an account as such. Edited January 22, 2023 by Myra Loveless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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