Banning bots from the grid?

[Caeruleiae]

I stopped reading a few pages in, I think, I lost track. It got boring. 

I don't think bots should be banned. I do think that ll needs to make them more easily identifiable and needs to make it so this is a requirement for those who want to use them, not optional. I think ll needs to work on implementing better functions for the grid so that some of the things people use automated accounts for right now won't be necessary. That can eliminate a lot of the problem all by itself. I think ll needs to do a lot more work on all kinds of functions in sl, though. I don't think anything can or should be done about bots, or automated accounts until they do that work. I think doing anything beforehand will break too many valid reasons people use automated accounts. 

Automated accounts can do different things for people and I can see why people might want to use them. I think most of their overuse now is because ll doesn't do what they should do, when it's easier to let the people sort it out themselves.

I don't think ll will do any of that work, but I think they should and they have no valid reason not to, except being lazy. 

[xDancingStarx]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It's also important to note that wow bots are buying the game and playing the monthly sub.

Right, wow bots are paid accounts, and they exist because they can make enough money before Blizzard bans them.

 

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

At the very least bot accounts in SL should be required to purchase a premium plus level of subscription and agree to terms and conditions for bot usage.

Maybe that would even make sense, but this goes back to the problem that Linden would need to be able to determine who is a bot and who is not, which would be a tremendous effort. And even if they were able to spend all that money on this issue, there would still be the problem that an SL account is free and once they ban bot 9473, bot 9474 would be instantly created. Or would have been created a month ago in advance.

[LittleMe Jewell]

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

 

 

 

That is the bot that I want banned.  That damn thing it a total PITA whenever I try to do Support Chat these days.  It definitely takes persistence to get past it to a real human.

[Ezbeharra]

5 minutes ago, xDancingStarx said:

Right, wow bots are paid accounts, and they exist because they can make enough money before Blizzard bans them.

 

Maybe that would even make sense, but this goes back to the problem that Linden would need to be able to determine who is a bot and who is not, which would be a tremendous effort. And even if they were able to spend all that money on this issue, there would still be the problem that an SL account is free and once they ban bot 9473, bot 9474 would be instantly created. Or would have been created a month ago in advance.

Exactly, 100% this.

Full disclosure of my extremely bad gaming choices, I did pay Eve Online for a while and it was truly astonishing just how resourceful botters were there, how much money they made from it all, and how hard it was for CCP (then the owner of the game) to even take out some of them. What we're seeing in SL is only the barest sliver of what botters are very easily capable of, if they want to evade detection.

LL can't even find traffic bots, which are already technically not allowed. I see them all the time. I could name and shame certain locations but I won't. This time. But suppose LL aggressively went after traffic bots. How hard would it be to put them on sex furniture and say they were AFK sex workers? Now what?

Edited January 23, 2023 by Ezbeharra

[Paul Hexem]

16 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Bots that participate in other actives or are socially disruptive are banned, and big ban waves are common.

This is worth repeating. At least in those other places, we see a decision- any kind of decision made.

 

15 minutes ago, Ezbeharra said:

This is my position as well, and while I understand Paul's objection that it's off topic for the thread, I think it makes more sense to ban the bot behavior that we don't want to see, rather than banning bots entirely.

Put like that, it's on topic.

But then we're back to detection. Personally I think it's way easier to detect all bots (and idle accounts) with very little effort and mark 'em than to try to police behavior.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Paul Hexem

[Rowan Amore]

The first thing that needs to happen is that LL needs to actually do what they say...

Enforcement

Linden Lab routinely looks at search results, and will treat use of bots to gain an unfair search advantage as an abuse issue. You do not need to file an abuse report for violations; Linden Lab monitors the search results.

To begin, Linden Lab sends a warning message to the land owner. If the issue persists, then account suspension or removal from search may result. If you feel there has been an unfair decision in this regard, use the abuse appeals process.

Do they actually do this?  I doubt it.  Do they check to see if all those avatars on the sky platform are registered as scripted agents?   There are several.places.that have for years been at the top of search.  I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

 

[Ezbeharra]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Do they actually do this?  I doubt it.  Do they check to see if all those avatars on the sky platform are registered as scripted agents?   There are several.places.that have for years been at the top of search.  I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

Exactly! I'm aware of plenty of such places, too. And all they would have to do, though, if anyone said anything, is throw some sex beds and tip jars up on that platform and say it's an AFK brothel. I genuinely don't think enforcement is possible, but I would love to be proven wrong because that would mean such a huge improvement.

[Maitimo]

Linden Lab won't ban bots. It will reduce avatar concurrency by 90% and that won't look good to any potential investors.

[Paul Hexem]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The first thing that needs to happen is that LL needs to actually do what they say...

Enforcement

Linden Lab routinely looks at search results, and will treat use of bots to gain an unfair search advantage as an abuse issue. You do not need to file an abuse report for violations; Linden Lab monitors the search results.

To begin, Linden Lab sends a warning message to the land owner. If the issue persists, then account suspension or removal from search may result. If you feel there has been an unfair decision in this regard, use the abuse appeals process.

Do they actually do this?  I doubt it.  Do they check to see if all those avatars on the sky platform are registered as scripted agents?   There are several.places.that have for years been at the top of search.  I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

Yeah, we know they're not doing that.

Which is why I'm wondering if automated solutions are better. Look for idling, look for what kinds of commands are being sent to the servers. Really easy stuff to check. Or at least, should be.

[xDancingStarx]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

People don't need automated software (bots) to game traffic, and if those avatars that you see are in fact controlled by a person (who just doesn't move) then they obviously cannot fall into the "bots to gain an unfair search advantage" category. If you think that an AFK user shouldn't be contributing to traffic as much then this is would be more on point. What do you suggest exactly, how should the algorithm look like?

[Coffee Pancake]

13 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

To begin, Linden Lab sends a warning message to the land owner. If the issue persists, then account suspension or removal from search may result. If you feel there has been an unfair decision in this regard, use the abuse appeals process.

Do they actually do this?  I doubt it.  Do they check to see if all those avatars on the sky platform are registered as scripted agents?   There are several.places.that have for years been at the top of search.  I pop in now and then to check.  Still no actual people there but that platform is still full.

They have never done this to my knowledge. Skyboxes full of ghost avatars persist until the person who operates them stops.

I used to assume this was just region owner privilege - if you buy a private region you can do what you like, but that's not the case.

[Harley Linden]

Hello everyone. Unfortunately we had to make the decision to close this particular Thread on this worthwhile topic yesterday.

In order to keep threads open, we need our community to commit to upholding the Forum Participation Guidelines that you have agreed to by choosing to take part in our Forums. This means, among other things, keeping your posts both On Topic and Civil. 

Please refresh yourselves on the requirements: 

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