Account - No Payment Info Used

[Ceka Cianci]

41 minutes ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

Linden Labs has turned SL into a glorified porn site with their promotion of the highly sexual culture.  And the amount of men who flock here because of it use those Alts for one purpose only, and that is to deceive others.

LL didn't turn SL into that, users did.. LL might have given the means for that to happen by not limiting creativity to the users, but you can bet they didn't create all this adult theme things all over the grid.. The users did.

ETA: I just want to add to this.. It's not only men coming to SL who deceive others.. Deceit is by no means limited to male.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Blaise Glendevon]

31 minutes ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

They should remove that from public view except for Linden staff.

For better or worse, it's one of the only age verification tools available. 

[Ceka Cianci]

I have an alt that was made a couple months back to run through the start area to check out the new user experience.. That alt earned a few lindens in world and bought the ruth avatar which cost one linden from the MP.. That alt still shows, No Payment Info On File.

So you pretty much have to have some sort of payment info for that account for it to be on file or used.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Ceka Cianci

[Ayashe Ninetails]

18 minutes ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

In RL, people cheat with their mains. Doesn't mean we should actively avoid talking to everyone we meet, though. 😄

More seriously, as everyone already said, alts are really common and often no big deal. They're used for everything from running a business to using it for a specific kind of roleplay (say, someone roleplays exclusively as a centaur or something else miles away from their human main). Some like to build or script in peace, so they hop on one with an empty friends list. Others use their own alts as photography models or to test couple and group animations. Etc. Etc. Millions of reasons.

But yeah, cheating happens in SL. It has the potential to happen everywhere, though, whether alts are available or not. 

As easy as it seems, many do choose not to, though, so don't lose hope. I've been here a loooong time (since 2005) - there are some absolutely amazing people you might miss out on if you reject everyone with an alt. Just something to keep in mind. ❤️

[Scylla Rhiadra]

22 minutes ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

Linden Labs has turned SL into a glorified porn site with their promotion of the highly sexual culture.  And the amount of men who flock here because of it use those Alts for one purpose only, and that is to deceive others.

You sound like you or someone you care about has been hurt, and I'm very sorry if that's the case. It sucks, to put it mildly.

But it doesn't require alts to be a crappy person and unfaithful -- and cheating is not the primary use for them, even if they are occasionally applied this way (and not just by men, surely?)

I am also, as always, a bit mystified by the characterization of SL as a "glorified porn site." Mine most assuredly isn't, and that's without going to any particular effort to avoid it: I don't filter out "Adult" content, I travel not infrequently to "Adult" areas (and in fact live in one), and yet I just don't run across that much sexuality, yet alone what I would term "porn."

One might make the same argument, to be honest, about any social media platform. I use Twitter almost exclusively to follow and tweet about social activism, but that hasn't prevented men on the make from slipping in to my DMs there. The same is even more true of Facebook (which I barely use for just that reason).

Sexuality is a pretty central human preoccupation. It doesn't need to rule your life -- as I've said, it barely impinges on my SL -- but I think this platform would be the poorer without it. Sex needn't involve deception or cheating, and I think mostly doesn't.

And it's a human characteristic that has enriched, in a larger sense, our culture, art, literature, and creativity. I don't want to "do it," but I also don't want to "live" in a world that erases such an enormously important part of being human.

[Safia Starchild]

Very well said Scylla, thank you for your explanation of the situation.  And just to clear the air I don't avoid everyone who may be an Alt.  It was just a basic question that I had in which some people read way more into it than what my reason was for asking it :).

Thank you to everyone for your responses.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Safia Starchild said:

Very well said Scylla, thank you for your explanation of the situation.  And just to clear the air I don't avoid everyone who may be an Alt.  It was just a basic question that I had in which some people read way more into it than what my reason was for asking it :).

Thank you to everyone for your responses.

There is a tendency here for people (not excluding myself) to "jump on" subjects that come up again and again, under the assumption that a poster is making a particular kind of argument that we've seen before. Unfortunately, the subject of alts is one such subject, so it's not surprising, even if it is unfair, that we've made assumptions about your question.

In any case, I hope you got the information you were looking for!

[Kathlen Onyx]

26 minutes ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

Linden Labs has turned SL into a glorified porn site with their promotion of the highly sexual culture.  And the amount of men who flock here because of it use those Alts for one purpose only, and that is to deceive others.

I would say if you feel that SL is just a glorified porn site and are afraid of a partner cheating on you with an alt then just don't participate in those activities.  As a side note: Are they really cheating? Isn't what we all are at the end of the day just "friends" who may have online sex once in awhile? A smart person would know how to do this without anyone knowing. If the person is stupid enough to allow their partner to find out do you really want to be with them anyway?  

[Sid Nagy]

 

1 hour ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

Linden Labs has turned SL into a glorified porn site with their promotion of the highly sexual culture.  And the amount of men who flock here because of it use those Alts for one purpose only, and that is to deceive others.

PIOF will not stop partner cheaters.
IRL almost everybody has PIOF somewhere and no alts, but partner cheating is still a pretty common leisure activity in that world too.
People who want to cheat will do so with or without PIOF and with or without alts.

If one takes pixel sex seriously, better take enough time to get to know ones partner first.
The SL pace is different than the RL one most of the time. A vast chunk of inworld partnerships don't last long term IMHO. That is not LL's fault.

To me SL is a cartoon world, not RL. There is only a percentage of people who perceive SL (almost) the same as RL.I never feel like I'm really in SL. I'm on my chair behind the screen moving the cartoon Sid Nagy around.
And for sex or dancing poseballs or an avisitter even have to take over. For me it has all very little to do with the RL counterparts.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Sid Nagy
Improvement of the text.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, Safia Starchild said:

Yeah right Alwin.  Tell that to the numerous females I have heard from in-game that were in Relationships and found their partners cheating on them with Alts.  

Linden Labs has turned SL into a glorified porn site with their promotion of the highly sexual culture.  And the amount of men who flock here because of it use those Alts for one purpose only, and that is to deceive others.

Every single avatar I've ever made has had PIOF.  I don't use any of them other than Rowan.  If I were in a relationship and if I wanted to cheat, I could pull out one of those old ones and use it.   

"Catching" someone in a lie?  To what end?  I don't owe anyone here any truth except what I decide to tell them, not what they ask for.

 

[Caeruleiae]

I get called an alt all the time, it annoys me, makes me very uncomfortable and usually makes me leave whatever place I'm at. It's also part of why talking to anyone is difficult. DO those people go up to others in rl and accuse them of living a double life? I bet they probably don't. I wish people would stop making stupid assumptions. If they want to know why I have a mesh av, mesh clothes, head and know how to do some stuff in sl they think noobs would not be able to, they should just ask. IN my case I had a friend help me with the very basics and everything I own was free or very low cost and I was able to work hard in sl to earn enough and buy it. Mesh head and body took the longest to get, because they're more expensive.

Just because someone's been here a while or have payment info on their profile doesn't mean they aren't up to no good, either. They're actually more likely than someone new who hasn't yet figured out how to cause trouble in here.

 

[Gabriele Graves]

3 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

For better or worse, it's one of the only age verification tools available. 

It's not an age verification tool.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.  There are no age verification tools available, it's just snake oil.

[Stephanie Misfit]

I had a partner here who was over 10 years in SL, who had no payment info on file, but the best of everything because I bought it for him. He was long tern unemployed in real life and a carer for his elderly parents and had never been able to spend a cent in SL. Anyone would have suspected he was an alt from his avatar. I have helped newcomers (and some oldbies) with NPIOF improve their avatars for free, or with a few small cheap gifts from me, and got them looking really good, it is something I enjoy doing. They probably end up looking like alts, too.

[AzureWaves]

Not sure why people are so scared of alts? Did an alt hurt you? Are you just extremely paranoid? It's okay to be cautious, but it's kind of not fun to live your life that way in Second Life.

[AzureWaves]

5 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It's not an age verification tool.  Not by any stretch of the imagination.  There are no age verification tools available, it's just snake oil.

There's no age verification tool. I have no payment on file, and I can go to adult regions just fine. The only thing I did was give my real life birthday when I signed up, which indicates I am over 18.

[Gabriele Graves]

4 hours ago, AzureWaves said:

There's no age verification tool.

That's what I said.

[PheebyKatz]

Look too close at anything and it all just turns into a bunch of colored dots. Distance yourself from it and all you see is a big grey blob.

My main started as an alt. Half of my best friends use alts for all kinds of things, even managing their Tilia accounts.

Even an empty profile doesn't always mean what people might think it does. Looking for witch-marks doesn't save anyone from anything, and can leave all kinds of potential friends and companions off in the dirt without deserving it.

I just wouldn't worry about it, and if you like talking to someone, be grateful you found someone to have a good conversation with, or a fun time, or whatever you do together.

[Alwin Alcott]

15 hours ago, Safia Starchild said:

 And just to clear the air I don't avoid everyone who may be an Alt.  

but you can't even knów if someone is a alt.

[Dafadilia Wayfarer]

Please realize ths is just my opinion, but using alts as a way to "weed out" people worthy of your attention and time is a really bad idea. Preconceived assumptions about others are harmful and unfair to both parties.

People aren't required to disclose if they have alts, if they are an alt and what they use them for.

I have alts that are used for taking photos, roleplay, exploring and so on. The people who are aware of those alts are those people I wish to know. I'm a very private person and loner for the most part besides my family.

Not being willing to disclose personl information to others doesn't mean a person is hiding something. Gender really doesn't play into it either way. Just my thoughts.

[Akane Nacht]

14 hours ago, Caeruleiae said:

Just because someone's been here a while or have payment info on their profile doesn't mean they aren't up to no good, either. They're actually more likely than someone new who hasn't yet figured out how to cause trouble in here.

that's ageism! (true tho)

[Charolotte Caxton]

1 hour ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but you can't even knów if someone is a alt.

When I was brand new brand new to these forums I was accused of being someone's alt before I even knew what an alt was. Ever since then I don't give af about alts becuase I know how stupid and paranoid slers can be about it.

[cunomar]

Everyone is an alt .

So long as your sure it won't bother you at all if they vanish forever at any given moment then it doesn't matter at all .

You could make that a positive or negative i guess . If in rl you chose to travel the world alone never sleeping in the same place twice then each person you meet along the way is just another page in your diary , nothing more than a memory .

[Sid Nagy]

Sadly one always has to expect that people on ones friend list vanish forever. Alt or not.
As long as you don't have RL contact information and real RL contact, that is always a possibility.
The number of people still active on my original friends list from 15 years ago is exactly 1. We lost contact over the years. People drifted away, found new hobbies.

And alts can become oldbies too.
Technically Sid has started as an alt too 15 years ago. Still going strong and active in SL.
Being an alt or not tells nothing.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Sid Nagy
Why nut?

[Paulsian]

Interesting topic. I have a 9 year old account I consider my alt. He does not have a soul he's just a dance doll. This account here i'm using is my primary almost 4 year old. I have another I created for my business but decided to use my primary cause toggling back and forth was waste of time.

I hardly care to look at anyone's profile anymore. If I meet someone and have a conversation worth remembering and run into that person again and again I'll form my opinion of that during those interactions and build trust that way. Some people i've known for a long time I enjoy their profile feeds, the photos they take in world. 

When I was newer I would constantly look at profiles and be leary of ones without any information filled in and no payment info on file, I assumed they were looking for "donations" usually if someone asks me for a few lindens happy to gift them. When I was new before I was confortable enough adding my payment information a very nice native american avatar gave me 100L to spend at a nice area for new people. 

The longer we are engaged here in SL the kindness out weighs the cruelness.

There's so much to learn here, adult activities are fun at first but they are not a sustainable form of entertainment to most users. It's pretty cool being virtual and as realistic as technology allows. We can be as wild or as mild as we wish. I think it's safe to say we all eventually virtually mature into our best selves. 

[DeepBlueJoy]

I've alts for various purposes and some of them have friends. NONE of them is used for sex b/c I didn't come to SL for that. 

I have a couple accounts that I use often - one is male and I use him for trying out clothing i make.  The other is named for the store I am trying to create and will probably serve as the primary account for that business when it is up and running so my main account can exist in the world and have a somewhat normal existence.  I have spent a fair amount on those avatars and they are as 'real' as this one -- and the friends they have (some of which overlap with this one) reflect that.

My other test alts are more 'alt like' and mostly from freebie stuff and I think are more likely to be perceived as alts.  But... if you assume that everyone with 'no payment on file' is a bad guy... you'll miss lots of good people.

I know people with businesses whose main avatar is used for the business... and the alt they use most of the time for social interaction is 'no payment on file' b/c why bother putting their credit card on more than one account? 

I haven't tried it, but I know there's ways to split payments in vendors (if you have a store) so that some money earns goes to one avatar and the rest goes to a different one - so it's possible that the 'no payment' alt you're discriminating against has:

a) plenty of money

b) serves as the primary account for interacting with others and is therefore the 'real' person.

One of my closest friends created an account many years ago to be a non human avatar and that is their 'default' avatar and has money (and I think the old 500L stipend).  They now mostly appear as 'human' but their default avatar is the only one (to my knowledge) that they use to buy money. 

I don't really want to be policed because someone is trying to figure out if their partner's a cheat. 

I hope people are NOT discriminating against me because I happen to be wearing a no payment alt. I met some of my best friends while wearing an alt, and later also added them to this account.

Frankly, there's almost an infinite number of ways to cheat in the real world and here.  If you don't trust your partner implicitly and trust matters to you (it matters to me) then you need to ditch them.  Behaviour is a better measure of whether you can trust them.  If you 'feel' they're cheating because they inexplicably vanish or become unavailable, then it's likely

(a) you are a bit paranoid

(b) they're cheating and/or keeping some other secret

(c) both (a) and (b) are true.

Not all secrets mean someone is cheating. I know people who cross dress or live the trans life they really want to live (the two are not necessarily the same) in SL b/c real life doesn't allow them to do it and they find it freeing to be able to explore that part of themselves.  They don't feel safe to tell anyone else but their other cross dressing friends that they're cross dressers or consider themselves trans.  Since there are states in the US and countries all over the planet where cross-dressing, being gay, trans and other ways people can be 'different' can get you fired or beat up or put in jail or even get you killed... Secrets are the only way some people can be themselves.  Second Life can be a huge gift.

If your partner doesn't trust you enough with their full reality, perhaps you don't belong together.

I recommend talking to your partner.  See if you are on the same page about life.  It is UNLIKELY that any adult will want to be monitored every moment of every day. 

The existence of alts doesn't mean a thing in and of itself. 

Nope, my alts don't show 'payment info used' but I give some of them a significant portion of my money. I think the fact that some of them have been around almost as long as this (my original avatar) has been and I've put effort into making them look good means people tend to treat them as though they're 'real girls/boy'. 

I am pro sex and sexuality as a person, but I have ZERO interest in SL pixel sex and no interest in *****wear. I suspect there's people who think I dress more like a nun than a *****.  I don't care what they do.  What I do is not their business.  I don't want to look like or be a hooker or someone's pixel hook up. 

But... LIVE and let live. 

Frankly, the existence of that sexual culture (which is in my opinion is often juvenile and sometimes pretty unhealthy) helps keep the coffers of SL full.  It allows a lot of people who have zero interest in pixel jumping anyone to mingle, dance, visit beautiful places, create a whole universe of fabulous stuff and have very full lives and experiences here.  THAT is why all my friends are in SL.  I have many.  MOST of them have little interest in SL sex, though I suspect many of them have tried it at least once.

If some people want to do something I think of as moronic (but which on the whole is a lot less dangerous than real life bone jumping of random strangers) then more power to them.

I will not judge (for example) the people in sexless marriages who preserve their family unity by finding a release here with another person.  It may not be for me, but loneliness kills people and if they connect here who am I to judge them?

I hope people will not make assumptions.  Meet people.  Talk to people.  Look at their profile but also recognize that a profile is something CREATED.  It can reflect who someone is or who someone wants to be perceived to be.  Most of the time, it's a bit of both.

If the person hasn't bothered to put a profile picture up, THEN i would suspect that alt of being 'disposable' - but frankly, i take people as they treat me.  More than once I've met friends who have said (after talking for a bit) 'I'm an alt' - here's the real me - please friend that person. 

I tend to come in world with alts sometimes to do things (mostly visit interesting sims) or make/build things -- when I want to be left alone. SL is a social place, but sometimes I wish I could be out in the woods or lying on a beach but real life doesn't allow it... and no, I don't always want to hang out with people. Occasionally I will make a friend - and I will direct them to my real avatar if I like them enough. 

Alts and money:

I've never requested money in any form... but I've given money to newbies or those i perceive as newbies (some of whom have told me they were returning newbies who joined and left or joined and never 'took' the first time), and had people give me money when I was new and did not have two pennies to rub together.  That kindness was part of what cemented my desire to be in SL.  I have never given money to ANY stranger who ASKED for it and likely never will.

There are a lot of GOOD reasons for people NOT to have payment on file.  I did not for the first few months b/c i had no money to spend on a 'mere game' and then for several months after that b/c of a glitch in SL processing my payment method... It took a while to sort it.

Not everyone has money.  There are people in SL for whom this place is a lifeline but who are disabled or otherwise unable to put money into the game.  I know people who've been given computers by family but have little or no disposable income.

Please don't judge people by the money they don't have.

Edited November 10, 2022 by DeepBlueJoy