Totally flummoxed by the new Arcade

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, TimKoul said:

I don't think you understand how these machines work. 

Ball 16 has the item you want but Ball 16 is not visible so now you can either take a RISK and play and hope Ball 16 appears or walk away. So what do you think happens when you decide to pay to play the machine and Ball 16 doesn't appear? Now you have an item you don't want and you can choose to play again for another chance at the item you want.

Thats how gachas work.

The element that was taken out was the UNKNOWN part.  The end.

[Bree Giffen]

I never played those gatchas or post-gatcha games. Just never appealed to me. Maybe if someone made a good skee ball game. 

[TimKoul]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

The element that was taken out was the UNKNOWN part.  The end.

The unknown is the ball that appears at the bottom with a random number.

[Rowan Amore]

Just now, TimKoul said:

The unknown is the ball that appears at the bottom with a random number.

But you KNOW what it is BEFORE you make that purchase.  It was not knowing what you purchase BEFORE that was the issue.  Sheesh.

You can go on and on if you'd like but I'm out.

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, TimKoul said:

Youre taking a risk by hoping the randomized number you want shows up at the bottom. Nobody was forced to play gachas either. You're not taking a risk when you buy the product you actually want.

If the rares are limited in number and you are playing to make a whole set, that would be gambling - gambling you 'might' get a rare for a whole set.  Are the rares limited?  If the rares are not limited and everyone has a chance for a whole set, it wouldn't be gambling.  I've never heard of this, so was wondering about the rare situation and how that works.  

[TimKoul]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

But you KNOW what it is BEFORE you make that purchase.  It was not knowing what you purchase BEFORE that was the issue.  Sheesh.

You can go on and on if you'd like but I'm out.

Yeah, its called a loophole. In the world of gacha, you play for the biggest prize: rares. With these new machines, you play for the item you want which is....what would be the rare. Numbers are still randomized. Addicts keep playing for the stuff they want. Addicts keep getting stuff they don't want until they get what they want and "win". Its a cruel concept that is honestly worse than gachas because now you can actually see the randomized numbers. Its like a transparent gacha machine. The actual gacha mechanic is literally still there.

[TimKoul]

2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

If the rares are limited in number and you are playing to make a whole set, that would be gambling - gambling you 'might' get a rare for a whole set.  Are the rares limited?  If the rares are not limited and everyone has a chance for a whole set, it wouldn't be gambling.  I've never heard of this, so was wondering about the rare situation and how that works.  

As far as I know, I wasn't aware of any limited sets/rares before gachas were outlawed. I assumed everyone could play and complete a set. There were, and still are, plenty of whole sets on the marketplace.

[EliseAnne85]

19 minutes ago, TimKoul said:

As far as I know, I wasn't aware of any limited sets/rares before gachas were outlawed. I assumed everyone could play and complete a set. There were, and still are, plenty of whole sets on the marketplace.

I meant the new arcade game.  If only certain people can win a rare, then it's similar.  You just don't have to buy so many commons if you can see what it is before you buy then.  But, what I was saying is (in the new arcade game) if only a certain amount of people can get the rare, it's gambling by buying the non-rares and hoping to get the rare to complete the set but there is no guarantee anyone will get a rare.  It sounds the same as gacha, only you don't have to buy as many commons.  It sounds a bit better, actually.   Anyhow, this is off topic, so I'm out too.  

[Chic Aeon]

1 hour ago, TimKoul said:

I don't think you understand how these machines work. 

Ball 16 has the item you want but Ball 16 is not visible so now you can either take a RISK and play and hope Ball 16 appears or walk away. So what do you think happens when you decide to pay to play the machine and Ball 16 doesn't appear? Now you have an item you don't want and you can choose to play again for another chance at the item you want.

Thats how gachas work.

Let's be clear on a couple of things. If you BUY the bottom ball number (see @Marianne Little s screenshot awhile back. The ball ABOVE that "drops down. So if the thing you want is the SECOND ball in the balldrop area you can pay for the item you don't want and then you get the item you DO want on the next turn. 

 

Everyone gets a different hud (well maybe there are a dozen or maybe it is totally random within random -- I don't know). The HUDS RESET AT MIDNIGHT FOR EVERYONE. 

I actually like the new system once I got used to it. And yes, sometimes the PAIR buttons don't show up if it is very laggy.   

When this came out a few rounds ago there was an uproar and Patch came on and explained it was all legal so far as LL was concerned. It is NOT gambling since you know exactly what product you are getting.  

 

There is still the issue of not seeing the item (in the cases where there are no demos) and so you don't know about LODs, triangle count etc. That is the only "gamble" you are taking -- the same with any purchase where you haven't seen a demo.  

Edited September 4, 2022 by Chic Aeon
clarifying statement

[Eddy Vortex]

I never got into the gacha alternative they have over at Arcade. If I need an alt to game for the item I want, it's way too complex for me. 😂

[EliseAnne85]

7 minutes ago, Chic Aeon said:

Let's be clear on a couple of things. If you BUY the bottom ball number (see @Marianne Little s screenshot awhile back. The ball ABOVE that "drops down. So if the thing you want is the SECOND ball in the balldrop area you can pay for the item you don't want and then you get the item you DO want on the next turn. 

Oh, I see.  That sounds much better than gachas.  

And, about the lag that's talked about in this thread, it's probably heavily scripted everywhere.  

Edited September 4, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

Looks like the OP got the answer and the thread probably will get secured by a Mod --- but a few of us learned a new word today, such as "flummoxed."

[Blaise Glendevon]

9 hours ago, TimKoul said:

It's a stupid concept. Just let people buy the product.

It's a vendor and a game, and a social interaction in the yard sales and trades forums. It's fun. Sorry you don't like fun.

[Seicher Rae]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I was never a fan of gachas either.  Paying for the unknown just makes no sense and not something I'd do in RL either.  At least now, you can see what it is you're buying or not buying.  They progress at their own pace, I believe although some might only progress after the one showing is purchased.  I think the Arcade uses the former.  Come back tomorrow and see what's showing.

It's pretty much like a vendor that scroll through products until the one you want shows except in this case, the vendor progresses the product and not you.

I've actually purchased from one or two when something I wanted was showing.  Not gonna stand around and wait, though.

 

5 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

It is a few good rares this month. Fatpacks with textures for all commons + more. Skins with all possible brow colors and makeups. Maybe I go there when the crowds start to thin out.

I have spent money in The Arcade once with the new system. I used my alts and we picked up all I wanted, no annoying doubles.

 

I just... I can't even... 

There's literally NOTHING I want to purchase in SL that is worth this kind of hassle! Alts? Standing around? Coming back the next day? Cycling through a vendor's random progression?

I'm not harshing anyone else's enjoyment with these things. If you like them, great!

But I see nothing compelling here, and frankly it turns me off of the seller. Make a good product & let me buy it. Let me buy the pieces I want and don't hold me hostage to jumping through hoops if I want the black one (this is another peeve of mine, sellers who put the colors they know everyone really wants in the fat pack only!).

ETA: In the case of those ever-popular rares? Make a good product and let me buy it. Let me buy the various pieces I want. Want to make something special? Then do a limited-number release. "Only 200 of the special flowery frilly versions available. Once they are gone, they are gone." There. Rare.

This is going to be yet another "thing" in SL that I just don't understand. There's a lot of those.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Seicher Rae

[Ingrid Ingersoll]

Sounds like a bigger pain in the @@@ than the original.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

I see machines with queue lengths of 3, and here, at the Arcade, apparently 6. But to me, and as mentioned above as well, it still looks like gambling. People will still go after the rares, which will less likely appear in the queue at all. And thus, like with the old gacha machines, people will continue to pay these machines until, by chance, their desired prize appears in that queue.

Wouldn't the suspense of gambling - you know, the adrenalin kick you get by the anticipation of reward while you are bleeding money - increase with the reduction of the queue length? Or would the intensity of such sensation not matter significantly with the differences in queue length (or even zero queue), given that the rare ones appear so infrequently anyway? And are these gacha machine alternatives as addictive as the original machines? I guess I'm curious what people feel, physically and emotionally, when they play these things, and how these feelings compare with the ones experienced while playing the old machine.

Also, are there any legal limits to a queue length? Is a length of 1 legal?

[Update] Another thing I was wondering: what seems to be the frequency of doubles and triples appearing in these queues? Are the appearances of the items as random as one would expect, mathematically? Or did the scripters 'work' the numbers a little as to make double and triple appearances go away so that every new queue member is different from the previous one? I'm asking, because @Marianne Little's example at the top of this thread shows a very un-random distribution of billiard balls. I understand that's just a photoshopped picture, for the sake of aesthetics, but the notion made me wonder what it would be like in a real situation.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

It's a vendor and a game, and a social interaction in the yard sales and trades forums. It's fun. Sorry you don't like fun.

Can you please explain the fun part? I'm lost.

Thanks!

[Blaise Glendevon]

42 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Can you please explain the fun part? I'm lost.

Thanks!

You trade for parts you want or shop in secondhand markets. The fun is acquiring what you want and interacting with people to get it. I've met great friends and acquaintances in trade groups.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

You trade for parts you want or shop in secondhand markets. The fun is acquiring what you want and interacting with people to get it. I've met great friends and acquaintances in trade groups.

Thank you.

[diamond Marchant]

1.  When you see people enjoying an activity in SL that you do not care for, simply decline to participate. Judgement not required.

2. Gambling requires putting something of value at risk (a bet), a game of chance (not skill), and a payout of something of value.

3. This topic should be locked.

[Marianne Little]

33 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

1.  When you see people enjoying an activity in SL that you do not care for, simply decline to participate. Judgement not required.

2. Gambling requires putting something of value at risk (a bet), a game of chance (not skill), and a payout of something of value.

3. This topic should be locked.

Please don't close it before it is explained again that it's not random prizes that come up when you buy one. The prizes is locked in the drop down window in your HUD. No one can steal your rare if it is number two and you buy the common sofa table that's first, to get the rare adult sofa that's number two in line. Not only do you see what you buy, you also see the whole line of the rest of the visible prizes. Buy one, the rest fall down, then a new one comes up at top.

It is still visible what you buy.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Marianne Little

[Marianne Little]

About lag, is the number of avatars a region can held set by the region owner? I am asking because I am trying to get in and take screenshots. I saw it was 42 avatars there on the map. That's what I am used to from before, 40 avatars and two Premiums that get the special entry. 

But the numbers drup to 36, then 38, 36 again, and I still get the message that the region is full? Can the region owner set the numbers to 35? Just curious.

[Marianne Little]

Here is a real image. Not from The Arcade website.

It is zoomed in so you can see the prizes and the text clearly. If I zoom out a bit, it is a DEMO to buy under this, and a cardboard box with a no transfer FATPACK to buy. You get all prizes in that box.

So let us say I have bought the demo, I love it and I want one of the rares. The vendor offer me #6 instead. It is not a bad skin, but it is not what I want. If I buy #6, I get it, and the one over drop down. A new ball with an unknown number appear on top.

Maybe I have so much money that I don't care, and continue to buy skins Im not interested in, hoping a rare will show up.

That's my money, and if I have so much that I can pay over and over again I can do it. I could buy the fatpack instead, and teleport out happy. But I am clinging to my money and do not want to pay the vendor more than once. And I do not want to pay 2600 for the fatpack.

I can come back after midnight SLT, because I get new random prizes loaded in the HUD every day. Or I am devious and log in an alt, send him to The Arcade, to see what prizes he is offered. The alt can buy for me, and transfer the prize to me. I can continue to do this until I get a rare, or I run out of alts.

This sounds like a lot of work, and it is true. It is possible to buy the fatpack and be done with it. If I want something cheap, I need to invest some time.

I don't understand what's interesting with breeding animals... It is many who likes to do it, It is fun for them. For me, it is fun to get a skin for 75 L without buying any other of the skins first. I can take that time to log in alts. 

Edited to add a wide image. This is another avatar I have logged in. It is not the same prizes as the first. It is still nothing I want. I wasn't in the Arcade because I really want this skin, but I needed to take screenshots.  

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Marianne Little

[Marianne Little]

Here is another, wider shot to see a whole vendor. This is another vendor, but they are organized the same way.

I have already zoomed in, and saw that #22 is the rare, colorchange. No #19 is a veil. I want those. But I am offered #12 instead.

Do I buy #12 so I can get #19 and #22? Only I can decide that. I have spent 150 L if I do so. I have one spare, no 12, that I can sell, give away or transfer to an alt. So it is not a worthless one.

Edit to add: This vendor is 50L per play. Others may be 75L or even 100L. 

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Marianne Little

[Love Zhaoying]

35 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Here is a real image. Not from The Arcade website.

It is zoomed in so you can see the prizes and the text clearly. If I zoom out a bit, it is a DEMO to buy under this, and a cardboard box with a no transfer FATPACK to buy. You get all prizes in that box.

So let us say I have bought the demo, I love it and I want one of the rares. The vendor offer me #6 instead. It is not a bad skin, but it is not what I want. If I buy #6, I get the one over, and a new ball appear on top.

Maybe I have so much money that I don't care, and continue to buy skins Im not interested in, hoping a rare will show up.

That's my money, and if I have so much that I can pay over and over again I can do it. I could buy the fatpack instead, and teleport out happy. But I am clinging to my money and do not want to pay the vendor more than once.

I can come back after midnight SLT, because I get new random prizes loaded in the HUD every day. Or I am devious and log in an alt, send him to The Arcade, to see what prizes he is offered. The alt can buy for me, and transfer the prize to me. I can continue to do this until I get a rare, or I run out of alts.

This sounds like a lot of work, and it is true. It is possible to buy the fatpack and be done with it. If I want something cheap, I need to invest some time.

I don't understand what's interesting with breeding animals... It is many who likes to do it, It is fun for them. For me, it is fun to get a skin for 75 L without buying any other of the skins first. I can take that time to log in alts. 

 

 

 

Oh, you can SEE pictures of the items. Not just billiard balls!