About Those Mesh Heads...

[Lindal Kidd]

I have a few mesh heads that I've picked up over...quite a long time.  Most of them, except for a couple from Vista, were free or on sale. At times, too, I've picked up several demos at a time from a single creator, and tried them on one after the other.

These days, my go-to head is Kaya from Lelutka, which I got when they were giving it away free last Christmas.

So, I'm not completely inexperienced with mesh heads, although I don't consider myself an expert.

With judicious use of the Appearance sliders, I can pretty much get any of the heads within a given creator's line to look like "me". Perhaps I'd see more differences if I took pictures and compared end results carefully, or used a crew of alts to display several heads side by side. But, absent that sort of careful comparison, my end results seems pretty much the same.

So...why do head creators sell all those different heads? If they are all essentially the same head?

I have a similar question for the skin makers. Leaving out skin tones, which are the same across a creator's line, the only differences these days seem to be in the amount of freckles and the placement of moles. Why so many different and yet indistinguishable skins?

[Coffee Pancake]

Aside from obvious geometry differences (llp cleft etc), heads tend to be very weighted in favor of one particular look. You might be able to get them all to look close enough from the front .. but how many of them have pushed in concave faces after you're done (LeLutka are especially prone to this).

[Lindal Kidd]

I like the side view of my Lelutka head...but I did have to greatly reduce the "eye bulge" slider to keep the mesh eyes from poking through the eyelids, and I do see what you are talking about.

[Love Zhaoying]

22 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

So...why do head creators sell all those different heads? If they are all essentially the same head?

I am still learning a lot, this question is pretty useful. 

For males, I kind of agree..

For females (for LoveX), I had to pick a specific head to match a specific "look" based on the default head shape, lips, etc.  (So the skin [?] I wanted would "look right".)

But for males, it's not so clear yet.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Bree Giffen]

They can look very similar if you use the same skin and use only ambient lighting but they are all shaped differently. I’ve tried shaping Catwa and Lelutka heads to the same shape and the differences between each face from each store become noticeable. Each head has specific eye sockets, eyelids, brows, nostrils, nose bridges, lip cleft, lips, cheeks, chins, jawlines, etc. If you consider the infamous duck lips for example, you can’t make those go away with slider settings. I turn on sun/moon light and view each head from the front, side, three quarters view and from above and below. I also take a photo of each so I can flip the face images  back and forth quickly to see differences. Some faces will have a specific feature that I don’t want and a few will look similar but subtly different. 
 

I’m editing this post to emphasize taking photos and flipping between the faces. This really helps make the differences noticeable.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bree Giffen

[June Starlight]

There's another thing I've noticed aside from what have been mentioned already - most heads that are given as gifts, at least in past couple years, tend to be variations of a similar look. Same brands often do have heads with wildly different geometry at the full price, but you will have to go in store and look for them.

[kali Wylder]

What I'd really like to see is a mesh version of my system head.  It makes me sad sometimes that I don't look the same as the early pictures of me.  I didn't even buy a mesh head until the bento ones came out so I could customize.  Then I spent months working at it until I had a close proximity to my system looks.  Recently I gave up using my Lelutka Simone which I had for years and changed to the Lelutka Kaya that I got for free last Christmas.  It took me all these months to finally get it to look like me.  So now I've had 3 incarnations as Kali since the beginning.  I suppose our looks do change in real life over the course of a lifetime so I can live with that.

[Nuuna Nitely]

I've tried most of the major mesh heads out there and ALL of the Lelutka heads. And there's been only two heads I got the look I felt was "me". Yes you can get similar looks, but if you try different skins or look from different angles it falls apart. For Lelutka especially it's either the eyes, chin or nose that differs from head to head. 

As for skins I agree lot of the skins look very similar. Because everything now can be replaced with tattoo layer addons what I mostly look on a skin is nose, cheeks and chin shading. 
If you want skins with more different look check out: BOATAOM and DeeTaleZ. 

[Garnet Psaltery]

14 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

What I'd really like to see is a mesh version of my system head.  It makes me sad sometimes that I don't look the same as the early pictures of me. 

That's one of the reasons I became a full-time Tiny.  I could never get a mesh head to look like the person I'd been for years.  I made something pretty in the end but it could have been anyone.

[Lucia Nightfire]

15 hours ago, kali Wylder said:

What I'd really like to see is a mesh version of my system head.

Isn't that what the head in the Ruth project is?

[Lindal Kidd]

4 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

Isn't that what the head in the Ruth project is?

Yeah. Maybe the new NUX avatars will put all the mesh body and head makers out of business...and make all the skin makers scramble to make new content.

I am not sure how I feel about that idea. On the one hand, it would do a lot to clean up the mess that avatar appearance customization has become. On the other hand, it would put a lot of very nice and hard working people out of business, and make a huge amount of content obsolete. And on the third hand (this is SL, I can have all the hands I want!) it would be LL moving into the mesh biz with all the unstoppable power that they demonstrated when they moved into the land rental biz with Linden Homes.

[Persephone Emerald]

46 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Yeah. Maybe the new NUX avatars will put all the mesh body and head makers out of business...and make all the skin makers scramble to make new content.

I am not sure how I feel about that idea. On the one hand, it would do a lot to clean up the mess that avatar appearance customization has become. On the other hand, it would put a lot of very nice and hard working people out of business, and make a huge amount of content obsolete. And on the third hand (this is SL, I can have all the hands I want!) it would be LL moving into the mesh biz with all the unstoppable power that they demonstrated when they moved into the land rental biz with Linden Homes.

I think the NUX avatars will help with new user retention, but I don't think those who already use commercial mesh avatar will give them up. The NUX avatars will have better hands and feet than the old system avatars, but they won't have curvy, muscular or sensual shapes. They'll have some ability to shape the faces, but they won't have all the individualization possbile with current mesh heads. Personally I hope some people who prefer using the old system avatars will use the NUX avatars, but this is just me wanting to impose my own sense of aesthetics on other people. Everyone will still be free to shape their avatars however they like, which is really a good thing for SL.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 8/1/2022 at 6:55 AM, Lindal Kidd said:

I have a few mesh heads that I've picked up over...quite a long time.  Most of them, except for a couple from Vista, were free or on sale. At times, too, I've picked up several demos at a time from a single creator, and tried them on one after the other.

These days, my go-to head is Kaya from Lelutka, which I got when they were giving it away free last Christmas.

So, I'm not completely inexperienced with mesh heads, although I don't consider myself an expert.

With judicious use of the Appearance sliders, I can pretty much get any of the heads within a given creator's line to look like "me". Perhaps I'd see more differences if I took pictures and compared end results carefully, or used a crew of alts to display several heads side by side. But, absent that sort of careful comparison, my end results seems pretty much the same.

So...why do head creators sell all those different heads? If they are all essentially the same head?

I have a similar question for the skin makers. Leaving out skin tones, which are the same across a creator's line, the only differences these days seem to be in the amount of freckles and the placement of moles. Why so many different and yet indistinguishable skins?

My experience is they are not the same and look every different.

When I decided to go with a mesh head I had used my system/classic head for years. I was also one of the ones that wanted to keep that facial look. It was a THAT is me thing.

So I spent months looking though the various brands and their models. I photographed my "Classic" face and stuck it on a cube. I would attach the cube to my shoulder and start trying on heads. I would spend 30 minutes to an hour adjusting the shape sliders trying to get close to the look I wanted. Eventually I decided on something I considered close enough. An GA.EG head.

Through all that experimentation I found that most heads could NOT be made to look like another. Not even within the same brand. I messed with a lot of sliders pushing from in to max and all in between.

Since you seem to be saying you can make them ALL look the same... there has to be something different in our perception of the faces. I do wear glasses...

I'll suggest that designers would not make all the variations if all heads could be made to look the same.

[Marianne Little]

Slanted eyes is one thing. For some heads, it is really difficult to raise the eye corners. Even a few points is starting to "drag" the skin or eyebrows to distortion. Or the chin. Some have pointy chin, others more rounded. It is possible to make them less rounded or less pointy, but I can't make a pointy chin fully round, and vice versa.

I see female skins in the weekend sales. And I admit, I don't see thin lips, bigger noses and small eyes. So it is a very clear beauty standard. Sometimes a skin can make a difference, an illusion of a wider nose, like this:

But for men, I see an almost clone type for Lelutka heads. I wonder if all the ads show Alain or Logan, or whatever the free heads is named. It is very long faces, very similar chins, very high cheek bones and very heavy shading under them.

[Lindal Kidd]

51 minutes ago, Nalates Urriah said:

Since you seem to be saying you can make them ALL look the same... there has to be something different in our perception of the faces.

It's probably because you actually took pains to be able to do a direct comparison. I have just been going by memory..."oh, that looks about right"...and I'm pretty sure that's not QUITE as accurate. I was actually meaning "heads within the same brand", though. But you say you see differences even there.

Good eye.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

I have friends who spend a lot of their time buying and playing with new mesh heads and skins -- for them, it's no different than buying new hair (which is what I do -- a LOT). And the results are, for me, usually pretty discernibly "different" from their former looks -- but not entirely so. There's always a family resemblance, and one of their questions is frequently "Do I still look like me?" The answer is generally . . . yes. With some qualifications.

They've tried to seduce me into the game (yes, I'm looking at you @Saskia Rieko and @Eva Knoller), but I've resisted. I'm not sure if it means that I am more or less "sensitive" to sometimes subtle differences (and they are often quite subtle), but changing a skin or mesh head, to me, has a pretty dramatic effect on my look. And I like my look, a lot. I spent a great deal of time fine-tuning it, over the course of a year or more. So I'll keep on using my increasingly out-of-date mesh head (Genus Classic) and the skin I finally settled on for it for as long as I can. If Genus ever updates to a higher definition skin mapping (like LeLutka), I'd still likely resist the change, because it would almost certainly entail buying a new skin.

But I think I'm the exception. Most people, I think, do come to identify with their look, but most are probably not as fierce about it as I am.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Scylla Rhiadra
Missing word

[Madelaine McMasters]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I have friends who spend a lot of their time buying and playing with new mesh heads and skins -- for them, it's no different than buying new hair (which is what I do -- a LOT).

They've tried to seduce me into the game (yes, I'm looking at you @Saskia Rieko and @Eva Knoller), but I've resisted.

Most people, I think, do come to identify with their look, but most are probably not as fierce about it as I am.

Some are more fierce about it than you.

I ain't going hair shopping with you, got it?

Edited August 2, 2022 by Madelaine McMasters

[Scylla Rhiadra]

12 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Some are more fierce about it than you.

I ain't going hair shopping with you, got it?

Barbarian. (Again.)

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I ain't going hair shopping with you, got it?

Bald is beautiful, too!

[Madelaine McMasters]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Bald is beautiful, too!

I was bald for a few months during the hard chemo phase of my breast cancer treatment. I was told at that time, by more than one person, that I have a "rockin' noggin". Though I've got my hair back (and going snow white) I find I like it quite short. It's so easy to maintain. My laziness can beat up my vanity.

As Scylla quite accurately observes, I am a barbarian.

[Cali Souther]

I think there are so many with only subtle differences because creators want to make money - period.

Once they make one head or skin that really works - all they have to do is tweak it ...   kind of like they do with movies ...  and sequels and reboots etc.

I enjoy a change now and then,  but heads are expensive!   I always seem to miss the sales and freebies,  so I'm sticking with what I got for quite awhile... no matter how many new heads they come out with.  Other folks have more disposable income / fun income --- whatever you want to call it,  so they enjoy having various bodies / heads / skins ...  to see what looks they can come up with.   To each their own.

I was sitting here thinking about Premium Plus ..    along the same lines Premium with a tweak ...   and just can't see paying the extra...    so in the end (for me) it comes down to how much hard earned moolah you have / want to spend for things that don't change much. 

 

[Love Zhaoying]

12 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As Scylla quite accurately observes, I am a barbarian.

Great! I need a new rug! Or is that "Berber"?

No? I always thought "Babar the Elephant" didn't seem so scary..

Oh, Barber! I could use a haircut..

 

[Ceka Cianci]

deleted

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Ceka Cianci
Change Bom to Tattoo body skin

[Madelaine McMasters]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I always thought "Babar the Elephant" didn't seem so scary..

Oh, Barber! I could use a haircut..

I've no doubt that, during my puppet theater years, I created some version of a Babar that was terrifying. Many of my puppets eventually ate whatever  (played by my parents) was annoying them.

My first visit to a hair salon did not go well. I was maybe three at the time and Mom wanted something cute done with my hair. I've no recollection of the affair, but something went sideways and they had to wrap me tightly in a blanket to finish the job. For years thereafter, Mom or Dad were the only ones allowed to do my hair. I eventually learned to wrap it around tin cans to impart gentle swirls and for a short while payed almost as much attention to my hair as Scylla would like me to now.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

41 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

too!

I was bald for a few months during the hard chemo phase of my breast cancer treatment. 

One of my fondest memories of my mother, was visiting when she was bald from chemo. During my visit to her home (I had a friend along), she experienced terrible uncontrollable flatulence, and we all laughed while she farted and farted. Anyway, you had to be there but: bald mom farting and laughing uncontrollably was quite amusing.