New Starter Avatars?

[Persephone Emerald]

I saw somewhere that Linden Lab is working on new starter avatars?  I think they need to get rid all the current ones and instead have some decent-looking human bodies with hands and feet that aren't hideous. Maybe newbies won't feel like the first thing they need to do is to buy an expensive and difficult to use mesh body and head. What do you think?

[Kimmi Zehetbauer]

20 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I saw somewhere that Linden Lab is working on new starter avatars?  I think they need to get rid all the current ones and instead have some decent-looking human bodies with hands and feet that aren't hideous. Maybe newbies won't feel like the first thing they need to do is to buy an expensive and difficult to use mesh body and head. What do you think?

They could put the current ones like in a archive thing.  When you sign up, could be "Don't like our new avatars? We still have our classic ones you can choose from."

Hope they're not working on leg-less avis! 🤣

[PermaRuthed]

1 hour ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

Hope they're not working on leg-less avis! 🤣

They don't need a dev team for that. We already have the technology! 👍

[Bree Giffen]

Legless avatars are disturbing. LL needs to make an ad campaign that emphasizes that we have legs. 

[Marigold Devin]

2 hours ago, Kimmi Zehetbauer said:

They could put the current ones like in a archive thing.  When you sign up, could be "Don't like our new avatars? We still have our classic ones you can choose from."

Hope they're not working on leg-less avis! 🤣

I seem to have all the starter avatars, each and every one since 2007, in my inventory's library section. Some weird and wonderful ones included that I have never seen anyone ever use. 

[Arielle Popstar]

Wish they would just fix the Ruth body. 18 years and still lumpy breasts

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I saw somewhere that Linden Lab is working on new starter avatars?  I think they need to get rid all the current ones and instead have some decent-looking human bodies with hands and feet that aren't hideous. Maybe newbies won't feel like the first thing they need to do is to buy an expensive and difficult to use mesh body and head. What do you think?

I think starter avatars should be good enough to engage in most commerce SL has to offer, but at the same time "encourage" users to spend some money on either hair, clothing or accessories that the starter avatar can wear or on a new head/body.

Today, SL is more fashion focused than it was on the social building of yore.

I think people will spend money on something regardless as they want to personalize their look and not look like everyone else.

Also, even if a starter avatar looked and functioned stellar in all regards, you will still have the fashion police labeling people using them as "noobs" causing many to spend money on something else anyway.

If starter avatars were so great that no one would spend money on their looks, we wouldn't have as many people using the platform to create content and since LL won't implement competitive gaming content creation features, idk what else people would bother spending money on recreationally.

[ChinRey]

3 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

Legless avatars are disturbing. LL needs to make an ad campaign that emphasizes that we have legs. 

Yes and I've got the perfect picture for the ad:

[Teagan Tobias]

 

I think someone starting SL should get an avatar that is capable of participating in SL, something that has the ability to change clothing, modify your look. Don’t stick them with a $50 US bill for an avatar before they even get started, obviously that does not work for retention of new users.

I know if I had been hit with that when I started I would not be here today. But when I started I could use SL without spending a lot of money on an avatar.

 

 

[Alazarin Mondrian]

LL updates the starter avvies from time to time anyway. I think what would be a better introduction for newbies would be to start off with something like the LBD Ruth 2.0 [and a Ralph 2.0 for the guys] with a simplified HUD and a selection of outfits that work together from the get-go. Maybe specify that the outfits automatically activate the relevant alpha panels so that it's just a straightforward experience of simply wearing different outfits rather than having to faff around with all the alpha layer malarkey. The HUD would be an option for people to use once they feel more confident with things.  This would be a seamless introduction to the current state-of-play vis-a-vis avatars as well as bringing down the off-putting financial hurdles and steep learning curve for newbies to get up to a level standing with existing residents. It might even encourage content-makers to make their products compatible with the starter mesh body as a way of going after the newbie L$.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Alazarin Mondrian
Further thoughts., etc...

[Alwin Alcott]

11 hours ago, Teagan Tobias said:

 Don’t stick them with a $50 US bill for an avatar before they even get started, obviously that does not work for retention of new users.

but nóbody does send them a bill, you only need to sign up, and have access to (hundred?) basic starter avatars in all kind of sorts and sizes.
It's the choice of the people comming in to spend, or wait. And seems all feel the need to go to super modern latest mesh and change heads every two days ... but that's nót required.
And with some patience, its totally possible to create a amazing looking avatar without spending hundreds of dollars.
LL should make that clear, and not only show bling and photoshopped to death images.

Nobody of older rezzdates did everything in one day, we grew in SL .. newbs should realize thats a normal thing to do.

[Teagan Tobias]

 

45 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

but nóbody does send them a bill, you only need to sign up, and have access to (hundred?) basic starter avatars in all kind of sorts and sizes.
It's the choice of the people comming in to spend, or wait. And seems all feel the need to go to super modern latest mesh and change heads every two days ... but that's nót required.
And with some patience, its totally possible to create a amazing looking avatar without spending hundreds of dollars.
LL should make that clear, and not only show bling and photoshopped to death images.

Nobody of older rezzdates did everything in one day, we grew in SL .. newbs should realize thats a normal thing to do.

 

I believe you truly understand what I was saying about the bill, just ask here if you don’t.

It may be a choice to spend or wait, but now days its more “I want it now” that fits a lot of people.

And about the need to go to super modern latest mesh, when I look around that “is” Second Life and you need to keep up to play the “game”, because that is what you ‘see’ its all about, or at least a good portion of it is, I know its what I see.

And with some patience(?), I covered that already, I want it now knows no patience, and besides you don’t fit in that way, you need to be new and shiny.

And as for the older ones growing in SL, when we singed up we got the best there is as a starter avatar, maybe give noobs the best there is now and let them start exactly like the older ones did.

 

[Kia Kiyori]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:02 AM, Arielle Popstar said:

Wish they would just fix the Ruth body. 18 years and still lumpy breasts

Right? Nothing quite like lumpy porridge for boobs.

[Jennifer Boyle]

On 11/14/2021 at 5:46 AM, Alazarin Mondrian said:

LL updates the starter avvies from time to time anyway. I think what would be a better introduction for newbies would be to start off with something like the LBD Ruth 2.0 [and a Ralph 2.0 for the guys] with a simplified HUD and a selection of outfits that work together from the get-go. Maybe specify that the outfits automatically activate the relevant alpha panels so that it's just a straightforward experience of simply wearing different outfits rather than having to faff around with all the alpha layer malarkey. The HUD would be an option for people to use once they feel more confident with things.  This would be a seamless introduction to the current state-of-play vis-a-vis avatars as well as bringing down the off-putting financial hurdles and steep learning curve for newbies to get up to a level standing with existing residents. It might even encourage content-makers to make their products compatible with the starter mesh body as a way of going after the newbie L$.

Yes!

[Jaylinbridges]

I think the main reason why SL  does not provide a decent Bento/BOM/Mesh body and head is loss of income by SL.  They know how many dollars the largest body, head and skin designers are taking out of SL, and know the fees these transactions earn them.  And the outcry from the big name designers if there were free decent bodies in the SL Library would make the Gacha thread look like a Sunday picnic.

Newbies can of course simply buy the Ruth and Roth full Bento/BOM mesh open source bodies and heads with skins included for something between free and $20L total cost on the Marketplace.  The bodies are quite nice - hands and feet look nearly as good as the $5000L big name ones, and the female body fits most Maitreya clothing.  And if there is a poke thru, that's what an alpha layer is for. 

Advanced features and head animations are missing from the free bodies, but at least you don't look like a lumpy freak of nature with the free Bento/BOM mesh bodies.  The free mesh heads are not so nice though - I can't see SL making a really attractive library face anytime - because of loss of income.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Coffee Pancake]

Any starter avatar that can't participate in the social and fashion fashion ecosystem is junk, doesn't matter how good it is if it just marks it's users for harassment or teaches them they need to buy another head and body in order to participate.

 

[Teagan Tobias]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Any starter avatar that can't participate in the social and fashion fashion ecosystem is junk, doesn't matter how good it is if it just marks it's users for harassment or teaches them they need to buy another head and body in order to participate.

 

 

But its easier to just not log in again, end of new user.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Teagan Tobias
said now, should be not

[Janet Voxel]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:13 AM, Teagan Tobias said:

It may be a choice to spend or wait, but now days its more “I want it now” that fits a lot of people.

It's not even an "I want it now" thing. It's two things: 1) Nobody wants to start off Second Life with an avatar that looks like a character from a Playstation game. That's Playstation 1, not Playstation 5. 2) In no modern day advertisement, splash page, blog, flickr, FB, reddit, new article, etc does an avatar look like system avatar...even the updated ones. At the very least, the expectation is going to be that you get an avatar that looks on par with what people are seeing before they even sign up.

[Lucia Nightfire]

2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Newbies can of course simply buy the Ruth and Roth full Bento/BOM mesh open source bodies and heads with skins included for something between free and $20L total cost on the Marketplace.  The bodies are quite nice - hands and feet look nearly as good as the $5000L big name ones, and the female body fits most Maitreya clothing.  And if there is a poke thru, that's what an alpha layer is for.

If they looked nearly as good as big name bodies and can wear big name body clothing, why have I only seen 1.2% of users wearing Ruth?

I suspect that 1.2% will creep up a little with my next release at 250k samples. Maybe it will make it to 1.5%? 🤔

[ChinRey]

1 hour ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

If they looked nearly as good as big name bodies and can wear big name body clothing, why have I only seen 1.2% of users wearing Ruth?

I'm surprised the number is that high actually, because:

1. 98% of the users already bought a commercial mesh body before Ruth 2/Roth came along.
2. 95% have never heard of the free mesh bodies.
3. 99.99% have no idea how to make their own alpha layers and it's not as if the clothing come with ready made ones.
4. 2% tried Ruth 2/Roth, found out their favourite outfit didn't work "out of the box" and abandoned it.
5. The claim that most Maitreya clothes fit Ruth 2 is a little bit exaggerated and it doesn't apply to Roth anyway.
6. People tend to base their choices on recommendations from friends and/or random strangers and those people tend to recommend what they are using themselves.

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, ChinRey said:

I'm surprised the number is that high actually, because:

1. 98% of the users already bought a commercial mesh body before Ruth 2/Roth came along.
2. 95% have never heard of the free mesh bodies.
3. 99.99% have no idea how to make their own alpha layers and it's not as if the clothing come with ready made ones.
4. 2% tried Ruth 2/Roth, found out their favourite outfit didn't work "out of the box" and abandoned it.
5. The claim that most Maitreya clothes fit Ruth 2 is a little bit exaggerated and it doesn't apply to Roth anyway.
6. People tend to base their choices on recommendations from friends and/or random strangers and those people tend to recommend what they are using themselves.

 

Thank You, you saved me the time to say the same things.

I might add Elitism and Promotion to your list - no fashion blogger would promote a $1L mesh body, no matter how it compares to a $5000L body. They would be kicked out of the elite fashion bloggers club and ridiculed out of SL, only to return as a Fuzzy.

This thread is not about the sheepish tendency for everyone to follow the herd, but why does SL not provide an acceptable Mesh/Bento/BOM avatar for women.  (Men don't count, and want to look like shaved gorillas anyway.)

The body I was thinking of made #19 on Lucia's list, despite all the fear of not looking like some prima donna queen:

#19 out of 300.  Not everyone was fooled into buying #1 as their first SL avatar body.

I use that body, with other heads and skins for Alts - and no one can tell the difference, unless like the snobs do, they use Inspect to see who the designer was.  Same as label shame in RL.

I also have all the major popular mesh bodies to compare with.  For a newbie that will take months to figure out all the features of a 12K avatar, it works and looks just fine.

Here's an alt of mine - $1 mesh/bento/BOM body - with an old BOM skin and system head from 2013. If you had to buy the head it would cost about $299L.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[ChinRey]

25 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I might add Elitism...

I don't really like to use that word here. For most users SL is light entertainment after all and they should be allwoed to flaunt a little bit if they want to. Apart from that, I agree with everything you say.

[Blaise Glendevon]

On 11/13/2021 at 12:39 PM, Persephone Emerald said:

I saw somewhere that Linden Lab is working on new starter avatars?  I think they need to get rid all the current ones and instead have some decent-looking human bodies with hands and feet that aren't hideous. Maybe newbies won't feel like the first thing they need to do is to buy an expensive and difficult to use mesh body and head. What do you think?

Linden Lab wouldn't get any buy-in for an in house mesh body, because people like the bodies they have. The designers would need specialty kits for rigging clothes to it, and if people aren't willing to splash out on bodies and heads, what makes the average shop think that person wants to buy clothes?

[Blaise Glendevon]

55 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I might add Elitism and Promotion to your list - no fashion blogger would promote a $1L mesh body, no matter how it compares to a $5000L body. They would be kicked out of the elite fashion bloggers club and ridiculed out of SL, only to return as a Fuzzy.

Jokes. 

[ChinRey]

7 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

Linden Lab wouldn't get any buy-in for an in house mesh body, because people like the bodies they have.

I think you miss the point, which is fair enough since we're already a bit sidetracked here.

This thread is about the starter avatar. There are three questions no newcomer should be forced to think about before they've become a little bit familiar with SL:

• Is SL something worth spending money on?
• Can I trust LL with my payment info?
• How do I change my avatar?

The avatar a new user finds the first time they log on doesn't have to look great but it needs to look good enough they can go out in public without feeling embarrassed and there has to be a decent selection of alternatives to switch between with just a click on a button.

A starter avatar is exactly what the names says, it's a start, and I hope we all agree we want to give new users a good one.

Edited November 16, 2021 by ChinRey