No pre-built gaming pc for you

[Chris Corvinus]

8 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

 

 

https://www.invenglobal.com/articles/14669/no-california-is-not-banning-gaming-pcs

See, this is what I don’t get because you can turn sleep/idle modes OFF. It’s like, the first thing I do whenever I buy a new upgrade. So I don’t understand the inability to ship to those states.

[MoiraKathleen]

It sounds like the more full-featured the pre-built gaming PC is, the larger the idle/sleep energy allowances are, plus the more likely that it is exempt altogether. 

I am for manufacturers and those using products to be encouraged to think about energy efficiency, and how they can lower energy consumption.    From the video Lyssa posted, it indicated the regulations were put in place a number of years ago, and different parts of the requirments for different types of setups are being phased in at different times, in order to give manuafacturers time to redesign their products if necessary. 

With drought looking more and more like a common occurrence in the western states, I think energy consumption issues are becoming more important especially when some hydroelectic plants are in danger of not having enough water to keep them fully operational, and it sounds to me like these regulations for system integrators are one piece in trying to reduce unnecessary energy consumption for situations where the end-user may not be aware enough or care enough to try to reduce usage on their end (by not turning off equipment that is not being used for long periods of time, for example).

[LittleMe Jewell]

2 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

Nah, not a problem.  Read the legislation, not the click-bait "press".

 

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

This is simply not true. 

Thank you @Lyssa Greymoonfor posting that video

 

1 hour ago, Bitterthorn said:

If you read the actual legislation it's not at all worth the clickbait articles. But clickbait sells I suppose. 

 

1 hour ago, Quistess Alpha said:

TL;DR If your (prebuilt) gaming computer has a "gold-standard" power supply and a good graphics card, it gets into a loophole in the regulations. The sky isn't falling.

 

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

The regs are only for idle/sleep mode?  I don't see a big problem then.  It does seem as if most gaming computers already out there are possibly exempt?  

 

Even if the regulations are for non-active modes and thus even if it shouldn't apply to the computers, the fact is that DELL has stated on almost all of their Aurora gaming desktops that they will not ship to the mentioned states -- I reside in Colorado.

So, IMO, click-bait or not, what matters the most is how the computer companies are interpreting things and whether or not they will ship it to me.  

Edited July 28, 2021 by LittleMe Jewell

[Quistess Alpha]

15 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

So, IMO, click-bait or not, what matters the most is how the computer companies are interpreting things and whether or not they will ship it to me.  

In order to comply with the regulations Dell may need to make some (minor) changes to certain models which make them more expensive, but slightly more energy efficient. some specific computers won't be shipped to certain places, but give it a year or two, and they'll make all or most of their models comply with the regulations to avoid the consumer spectacle.

Get the one they will ship to you, (Edit, that's This one and another one) it's slightly better anyway.

15 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

almost all

is not all. at least they made a few that are up to the new spec. (a more efficient power supply)

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by Quistess Alpha

[Ardy Lay]

3 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

DELL has stated on almost all of their Aurora

You don't want that anyway: 

 

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

See, this is what I don’t get because you can turn sleep/idle modes OFF. It’s like, the first thing I do whenever I buy a new upgrade. So I don’t understand the inability to ship to those states.

You may not be able to turn them off much longer. Win10 has the XBox features, one or two of which I can't uninstall. That button is greyed out. It is not just me either. Google it and see just how many hundreds of people have the same issue. MS did that on purpose so you can't uninstall it without jumping through hoops. You must use Powershell. 

Win11 is coming "soon" so who knows what will happen.

[Chris Corvinus]

27 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

You may not be able to turn them off much longer. Win10 has the XBox features, one or two of which I can't uninstall. That button is greyed out. It is not just me either. Google it and see just how many hundreds of people have the same issue. MS did that on purpose so you can't uninstall it without jumping through hoops. You must use Powershell. 

Win11 is coming "soon" so who knows what will happen.

That’s so weird because you just go into Power and Sleep settings and turn them off. Set screen and sleep to ‘never’. It’s insanely easy. 

[Finite]

I usually buy my pre-builts from newegg  (3 since 2004). I'm not seeing any of them in there mentioning that they cannot be shipped in CA. Even the ones with older generation vid cards like 1050s. Seems all if not most actual gaming computers fall into whatever this new requirement is. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Finite

[Silent Mistwalker]

46 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

That’s so weird because you just go into Power and Sleep settings and turn them off. Set screen and sleep to ‘never’. It’s insanely easy. 

Now you can. I was talking about in the future. You know, like when Win11 comes out. It's in beta right now.

[Paul Hexem]

What I find most interesting isn't the clickbait, it's that people read it and think "Yeah, that's exactly what those particular politicians would do, I believe it."

Says more about politics these days than it does about the actual story. 

[MoiraKathleen]

https://www.theguardian.com/games/2021/jul/29/dell-pulls-energy-hungry-gaming-pcs-in-six-us-states-after-failing-efficiency-rules

My take on this is that either Dell didn't plan well enough with the Alienware destop line, in advance, for the phased-in requirements, or they took a gamble to see if they could get away with not making changes to some of their Alienware desktops and were caught. 

I went and looked on the Dell site, and it was only on certain Alienware desktops that I saw the "Can't ship to certain states" statements.  I didn't see that message it on any of the gaming laptops, or on any of their other desktop or all-in-one offerings, all which fall under the same energy efficiency regulations the best I can tell from the charts that have been posted in other articles or videos.  

It very well may be more of an issue with the Alienware desktop line itself, than with pre-built "gaming PC's" in general.  

[FreeToSL]

I blame bit coin miners.

[Bree Giffen]

This is all a conspiracy to sell more Steam Decks!

[Ellie4024]

This is why I learned to build my own.... I'm now on my second BEAST of a PC... And I expect it to last me another 5 years. 

You pay sooooo much more for a pre-built (though right now, it's about the only way to get a modern graphics card)... My same PC, bought from a boutique builder would have been almost 50% more in price. 

[Finite]

1 hour ago, FreeToSL said:

I blame bit coin miners.

It doesn't seem to be the gaming ones bitcoin miners use that's being regulated. Looks to be the cheaply made, Dell "gaming" ones that are.

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

I think the (political) term 'nothingburger' would be appropriate here.

Kudos to mr. JayzTwoCents and his team to actually go through the legalese, and debunk the clickbait articles in a timely manner, while the outrage is still hot

And kudos to the Gamers Nexus guy for always finding new and hilarious ways to roast OEM builders in the first place.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Arduenn Schwartzman

[Chris Corvinus]

8 hours ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Now you can. I was talking about in the future. You know, like when Win11 comes out. It's in beta right now.

You can do all that just as easy in Win 11 too. These regulations make zero sense. If that many people aren't paying attention or dont care to how their computers sleep, then just make it a standard all PCs come with those options turned off. There is literally no point for all this.

[Jaylinbridges]

This is a long term energy saving plan.  Intel was heavily involved in the regulations so it's no surprise the more you spend for your computer, the more energy you are allowed to consume.  Nobody In Silicon valley is going to kill the golden egg known as gaming. 

These Tier 2 regulations are really aimed at cheap inefficient power supplies that still consume too much power when idle, and memory chips that are inefficient because of higher power consumption from old die fabrication technologies.   Of course cheap inefficient power supplies also consume more power running full tilt gaming, but no one wants to point out the obvious, and risk slowing down computer sales.

The assumption is that most users will use the standby/idle settings to power down when not in use.  Since most gaming computers are idle most of the day, requiring more efficient power supplies during idle mode will save energy.  Multiply that by the millions of new computers/laptops and monitors sold in Calif every year and it adds up.  Nobody cares if you defeat the power saving options, because that is not the norm for people who still buy their gaming systems.

Of course I could see the CEETS (Computer Energy Enforcement Task Squad) breaking down Chris's front door at 5am, to check if he has defeated power saving options on his computer.  Just remain calm and don't point your smartphone at the Feds, so you don't get shot.  After your arrest you will be released with only a fine for the first offence.  This is more likely in New York than California, since nobody works before 9am on the West coast.

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Chris Corvinus]

20 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

 

Of course I could see the CEETS (Computer Energy Enforcement Task Squad) breaking down Chris's front door at 5am, to check if he has defeated power saving options on his computer.  Just remain calm and don't point your smartphone at the Feds, so you don't get shot.  After your arrest you will be released with only a fine for the first offence.  This is more likely in New York than California, since nobody works before 9am on the West coast.

 

Jokes on them. I'm not home at 5am and my computer will be turned off.

[Jaylinbridges]

28 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Jokes on them. I'm not home at 5am and my computer will be turned off.

TMI !  But they are already re-scheduling, noting your sleep times.

[Chris Corvinus]

57 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

TMI !  But they are already re-scheduling, noting your sleep times.

 

[Chroma Starlight]

20 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

If you live in these states, you’re screwed if you’re looking to buy a decent pc for SL. No idea what would happen if you already own one. Building your own is still legal though because that makes sense.

Well, if they were actually serious about really limiting wasteful energy use, then they would simply regulate their electric grid in a manner that discouraged waste, and they'd go after the biggest absolute sources of inefficiency and loss first, like a rational government. I sometimes think that legislation like this or politicians like Caitlyn Jenner exist solely to sully symbols. Now people are being guided by government policy to associate conservation with killjoy, and meanwhile little actual energy is conserved by this change for all the reasons, and the biggest wasters and indirect polluters on the electric grid go unchallenged and uncorrected by any of this.

That said, if you're casual about gaming, and are primarily concerned with playing commercial titles, then you just buy a turnkey console like a Nintendo or a Sony, or maybe valve's upcoming handheld. If you're serious about gaming, into its culture, then you're probably the kind of person who already knows how to salvage five PCs into one gaming rig and what titles will play well on it. Mostly you just need newer hardware for VR, cutting edge tech demo titles. I'm still getting milage on the hardware I was stuck with when all this began, even an Oculus (kinda), and this is a Q3 2011 CPU with a Q3 2014 GPU. Of course, it's making content creation a bit slow, but it can still run fun stuff technically, and still plays many new games excellently, even if I can't seem to keep up with my friends, who are likely raytracing Minecraft these days, and peers, who can do high-fidelity high-FPS VR, anymore with hardware like this, at least there's a nice gaming world in the lower end and a vast library of worthy titles from the past. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Chroma Starlight

[Silent Mistwalker]

3 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

You can do all that just as easy in Win 11 too. These regulations make zero sense. If that many people aren't paying attention or dont care to how their computers sleep, then just make it a standard all PCs come with those options turned off. There is literally no point for all this.

I live in one of the those states. I'd like to have water in the future along with electricity to keep from dying in 100F plus temperatures.

How about not trying to make lemonade out of coconut milk.

 

Or do you have a solution to the 20 plus year drought that has been going on in the west? No? Didn't think so.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Silent Mistwalker

[Theresa Tennyson]

Theresa Tennyson mutters to herself, "The real kerfuffle will start when there are regulations about oxygen consumed versus intelligent thoughts created."

[Chroma Starlight]

It's really more a question of how much you enjoy that claustrophobic feeling of breathing with a plastic bag over your head.

Total column of carbon dioxide [ppmv] for Thursday 28 November 2019. (Credit: Copernicus Atmosphere Monitoring Service, ECMWF)

See how sensitive "Information Utilization," "Breadth of Approach," and "Basic Strategy" are to even just 600 PPM of CO2? What do you suppose that going from 310 to 420 PPM has done to mankind's collective ability to be human beings?

Why people are not terrified of this is beyond my comprehension, because to me this is definitely one of the nastier ways for a species to snuff itself out, or at least back into primate status.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Chroma Starlight