No pre-built gaming pc for you

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

If anything wears down your computer, it's leaving the machine on. Computers build up heat when they are actively processing data and running software. Heat itself can damage internal components, but it also causes your computer's fan to run longer. The more the fan runs, the quicker it will wear out its bearings

I also noticed the guy that wrote that article was using an oversized laptop.  Laptops have lousy cooling and cheap fans.

My computers are all desktop towers.  They run cool when idle and under load.  My MB and ambient inside cabinet temp is about 2 degrees above room temperature. My CPU never goes over 55 F, and runs around 40 F when idle.  GPU temp is 45 F now, and maxes at 60 F w/ sustained 100% load.  Heat is not a problem because I build my own systems to last.  I also use air filters on air intakes, and maintain positive pressure so the cracks don't suck in dust.  Slow speed large diameter fans also run slower, and I only use ball bearing fans.  I haven't had a noisy fan for years.  First thing I always did when I was using cheap power supplies was replace the fans with quality ball bearing fans.

Consumer grade brand name computers use cheap fans, and never enough cooling.  They are designed to last about 3 years. or whenever the warranty runs out.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Kathlen Onyx]

27 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I also noticed the guy that wrote that article was using an oversized laptop.  Laptops have lousy cooling and cheap fans.

My computers are all desktop towers.  They run cool when idle and under load.  My MB and ambient inside cabinet temp is about 2 degrees above room temperature. My CPU never goes over 55 F, and runs around 40 F when idle.  GPU temp is 45 F now, and maxes at 60 F w/ sustained 100% load.  Heat is not a problem because I build my own systems to last.  I also use air filters on air intakes, and maintain positive pressure so the cracks don't suck in dust.  Slow speed large diameter fans also run slower, and I only use ball bearing fans.  I haven't had a noisy fan for years.  First thing I always did when I was using cheap power supplies was replace the fans with quality ball bearing fans.

Consumer grade brand name computers use cheap fans, and never enough cooling.  They are designed to last about 3 years. or whenever the warranty runs out.

At the end of the day people will do what they feel is best. Either they believe that their computer will "wear" out if they continually leave it on or they feel it will last longer if they turn it off.  If I've learned one thing from these forums very rarely does one side go over to the other.  I, however will go over to the energy saving side from my first original post as I found out that the OP didn't really understand what the law was and posted in haste.  I am totally on board with it and believe it is a move in the right direction.

[Jaylinbridges]

2 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I am totally on board with it and believe it is a move in the right direction.

I agree.  It's fine for the general public and I use idle mode when it's appropriate.  But I don't idle my main system power because it is busy during my off hours doing stuff that is critical.  I don't want my hard drives spinning up and down every 30 minutes to save a tree once a year.  Monitors go to sleep every night, saving about 40 watts/hr.

I drive about 30 miles per month in a low pollution car that gets 30 mpg on Regular.   That's my contribution to a low carbon profile.  And I still pay $230 USD to the State for registration tags to build roads I never use.

 

 

 

[Drayke Newall]

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Shutdown keeps your power supply powered so it can detect startup - just doesn't have the load of the computer drives, memory, MB etc, since you shutdown your computer w/ software.  But I know some people that DO use the power switch to turn off their computers, after the shutdown.  Especially with laptops.  If I shutdown w/ windows I get the "It's now safe to turn off your computer" on screen, which keeps the PS powered and ready.  I don't shutdown at night - I have processes running when I am sleeping or afk.  I do put the monitors to sleep after 30 mins.  Unless an automated process is running my CPU and graphics utilization at night is zero. Fans slow if they are temp controlled.

Seriously, what OS and hardware are you using to have the "It's now safe to turn off your computer"? That hasn't been a feature since windows XP and that is because you literally had to switch it off in the early years of win95. Technically you can get it to do that on windows 10 but its a long process and completely pointless.

As to shutdown, of course there is a charge still going to the PC that is the same with any electrical device/cord plugged in - even your phone charger cord draws a small amount of power with no phone attached to it. Also it is no different to standby mode. Do these people you know also turn the TV off at the socket after they press the power switch on the remote control or switch their washing machine, microwave etc off at the switch as well?

The negligible charge of at most 5v of anything on standby mode or being plugged in is not going to save the planet if it is turned off at the switch. As to laptops, why would you keep it plugged in if you are not using it?

1 hour ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I also noticed the guy that wrote that article was using an oversized laptop.  Laptops have lousy cooling and cheap fans.

HAHAHA. That picture is a stock picture from getty images (as sourced) and not even a laptop its a older computer monitor.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Drayke Newall

[Jaylinbridges]

1 hour ago, Drayke Newall said:

Seriously, what OS and hardware are you using to have the "It's now safe to turn off your computer"? That hasn't been a feature since windows XP and that is because you literally had to switch it off in the early years of win95.

I just tried Shutdown on an old Win2kPro system w/ a 2002 Epox MB and it just shut down the computer with no message.  Might be a BIOS setting.

My SL system is about 10 years old. All I have upgraded is the power supply so far (750W Antec HGS) since I do have a decent load on the 12V lines (has 40 amps on 12V).  This system still runs SL just fine on Firestorm. I often run 2 or 3 accounts at the same time, and it still handles them OK, until I run out of VRAM from the busy clubs they are in.  I could use a new Video card, mainly to up my VRAM to 8GB at least. And that would mean a new system if I'm going to spend that much money on a new NVidia card.

This may look like a below min system, but I get better performance and frame rates on busy sims and clubs than most others.  The 550Ti is more in the 600 category.  But no hurry with the prices today.  As far as Win10, pfft, I already have it, installed it, and reverted back to 7. Win10 does nothing for me.

Operating System
    Windows 7 Professional 64-bit SP1  (Build 7601)
CPU
    AMD Phenom II X4 965  Processor (3400.1 MHz)   44 °C
    Deneb 45nm Technology
RAM
    16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 666MHz (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
    MSI 870A-G54 (MS-7599) (CPU1)    39 °C
Graphics
    HP 23xi (1920x1080@60Hz)
    DELL ST2310 (1920x1080@60Hz)
    2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 550 Ti  (EVGA)    39 °C

 

 

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

Umm.. no I have never heard anything like that. How old are your power supplies and who actually turns their pc off at the power supply switch? You do know when people say they 'turn off their computer' they mean Start>Power>Shutdown.

I know, right? PC's don't even have "toggle" switches for power buttons anymore. A button activates the shutdown process.

[Love Zhaoying]

/rename_thread "make fun of people with obsolete PC knowledge"

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I am using the Antec High Current HCG 750 watt Gamer, about 2 years old. in my modern system.  No idea what's in the old Win2K, I have upgraded it's power supply a dozen times.  At least a 600W name brand, as I put a new one in it the last time I cleaned it.

That "dozen" (emphasis mine) is exaggeration, right? Otherwise that's a new power supply about every other year, which would raise some questions.

I try to ignore power supplies but about a month ago I rebuilt our desktop towers and decided to gut them to the bare cases and splurge on something newer and more efficient. Definitely worth it for the silence: under baseline usage, these power supply fans don't spin at all, in part because we have vast, mostly empty cases into which radiant heat is easily dissipated. (These were my first modular power supplies, too, an obvious advance, leaving the case even more empty.)

So if there were a ban on shipping anything containing inefficient power supplies, I'd be all for it. (Not that 80 PLUS rating means much.)

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

So if there were a ban on shipping anything containing inefficient power supplies, I'd be all for it. (Not that 80 PLUS rating means much.)

This popped up on my YouTube.

 

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

This popped up on my YouTube.

Possibly because @Arduenn Schwartzmanjust recommended it.  Coincidentally(?) I had it open in another window while I was typing—despite the fact I generally avoid videos if at all possible.

[Jackson Redstar]

I think the question nobody is asking is why? The state isn't paying your electrify bill nor are they generating the electricity to sell to you. So if you want some energy hog device even at idle it is coming out of your own wallet. But the "state" has bought into the whole fake scientific scandal that "climate change" is real so they keep regulating power plants out of existence. Wind and solar is nice, except when there is no wind or solar. Hydro is great except when the region goes through an extended drought period. Nuclear is the best option, at least to meet with a 'carbon neutral' footprint, but there are numerous issues with nuclear let alone the cost and time it takes to get a plant online. The best overall source of power generation would be natural gas, but we can't have that because some group of politicians pretending to be scientists say c02 emissions will destroy the earth in 10 years! (every 10 years they say that!)

These particular regulations aren't that big of a deal anyways for most users, but again, ask yourself why the hell the government thinks it needs to regulate how much energy an individual purchases to live life they want to live life

[Jaylinbridges]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

That "dozen" (emphasis mine) is exaggeration, right? Otherwise that's a new power supply about every other year, which would raise some questions.

Probably is.  It was built in 2003 with a 450 watt generic supply, probably Allied.  I didn't say the power supplies ever failed. But the cheap fans got noisy, so I would stick in another of the dozen or so power supplies I had sitting around, so I could replace the fan in the other one when I felt like it.  450 watts for a single core Athlon XP with only 1 GB of system memory is overkill.  All it does now is stream music.  It's just been a standby machine for years - sitting on the LAN turned off until recently. It uses the Epox 8KHA+ motherboard - one of the more famous old gaming boards - It's never crashed.   Not my problem the youngsters here don't know what a power switch is.  Now that I think about it, the old Win2K system has a modular power supply now too.  I had a spare one so felt sorry for it and gave it something to do.  The old and the new.   Like buying Grandma a Maserati for her weekly grocery drive down the block.

 My antique PC computer collection goes back to the 1978 Apple II.  

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Pussycat Catnap]

On 7/28/2021 at 10:15 AM, Ardy Lay said:

Nah, not a problem.  Read the legislation, not the click-bait "press".

Yeah.

Conservative click-bait is always trying to say California is taking 'ur freedoms, ur women (gonna make them marry black folks or some'thn), ur guns, and gonna eat ur babies...'

Best to avoid some forms of "journalism"...

 

Being a Californian... I get a dozen articles a day telling me how cops are going to murder everyone, white people are on a rampage again, Karen is coming for me, conservatives are going to force me to eat meat, all folks of color are being sent to prison camps over in Texas, and so on...

... And I'm smart enough to know not to click on that bait (most of the time, they get me now and then too... some of that bait is VERY clicky... )

I suggest the folks on the other side of the line would do well to ALSO not click on the bait they get, so we can get past all these silly attempts to make us afraid of each other...

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Pussycat Catnap

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Possibly because @Arduenn Schwartzmanjust recommended it.  Coincidentally(?) I had it open in another window while I was typing—despite the fact I generally avoid videos if at all possible.

No, I already had the YouTube channel in my subscriptions. Because of the general news the guy supplies.  However, I totally ignored the video until the thread.. because... it will not impact us.

[Maitimo]

It's just occurred to me that this decision could well drive the movie industry out of California. If anyone needs high-powered computers, it's movie production studios.

[Lyssa Greymoon]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

It's just occurred to me that this decision could well drive the movie industry out of California. If anyone needs high-powered computers, it's movie production studios.

They can still get Mac Pros and Dell Precision workstations. They’ll be okay.

[Finite]

1 hour ago, Maitimo said:

It's just occurred to me that this decision could well drive the movie industry out of California. If anyone needs high-powered computers, it's movie production studios.

The regulation doesn’t affect high end pc’s just the cheaply made commercial brands. Made mostly of cheap parts designed to break down after a few years forcing you to buy another one. 

[Drayke Newall]

2 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Probably is.  It was built in 2003 with a 450 watt generic supply, probably Allied.  I didn't say the power supplies ever failed. But the cheap fans got noisy, so I would stick in another of the dozen or so power supplies I had sitting around, so I could replace the fan in the other one when I felt like it. 

It has nothing to do with your PSU's having cheap fans, its just that your PSU's are so old that they still operate their fans all the time when powered on and you keep them on 24/7 and therefore they wear quicker and made noise quicker.

My pc which I built 5 years ago the PSU fan has never run at all as it never reaches the required temp to turn it on. Not only that my GCard fans dont run at all unless on an extremely demanding game. I have also had it in the past except in summer/autumn that my AIO CPU cooler fans dont run at all unless running a graphically demanding program or rendering. 8 core CPU temp has never been over 40C and idles at 22-28C. System temp is always between 25-39 even under load and GCard sits at 27-30 most times unless running a game. Only fans that run all the time is the front and back fans at 900-1200RPM.

You mentioned before your PC's runs cool under idle and load, I beg to differ based on the temps you gave.

[Jaylinbridges]

6 hours ago, Drayke Newall said:

t has nothing to do with your PSU's having cheap fans, its just that your PSU's are so old that they still operate their fans all the time when powered on and you keep them on 24/7 and therefore they wear quicker and made noise quicker.

You are not reading my posts.  I said I have not had a noisy fan failure for years, because I replaced the el cheapo sleeve bearing fans with ball bearing fans in my older power supplies.  That was years ago.  My present PS and CPU and GPU fans are all temperature controlled and slow rotation.  And my side case fans that cools the CPU are also temp controlled. I can set it to stop in cool weather too, but so what?  I didn't install cooling fans to not rotate.

This is the Power supply I have in my 10 yr old SL system for the last 2 years.  It is still for sale on Amazon. How can it be so old when it's still a model listed on Amazon?

Antec HCG 750 watt Gold

$120 isn't that cheap either.

 

I consider a case temp of 40 C and 45 C for the CPU to be cool, considering I am also running firestorm full screen plus Chrome atm.  Obviously the new CPU's and MB's can run cooler then mine - it's called die shrink to increase speed with less power consumption.  My CPU is rated to 80C, so 45 C is fine with me.  I am also using the stock AMD supplied CPU fan/heat sink that comes with the CPU.  I forget to mention I have four hard drives in the case too, with no special cooling. Their internal temps are a bit high, as expected.

931GB Hitachi HDS721010CLA332 ATA Device (SATA )    36 °C
596GB Western Digital WDC WD6401AALS-00E3A0 ATA Device (SATA )    45 °C
931GB Western Digital WDC WD1003FZEX-00MK2A0 ATA Device (SATA )    45 °C
465GB Western Digital WDC WD5000AAKB-00H8A0 ATA Device (ATA )    48 °C

Next upgrade they will be replaced with one 4 TB WD for archive storage.

Series	HCG Gold 750
Brand	Antec
Connector Type	FDD Adapter, 6_plus_2_pin_pci_e, Sata
Output Wattage	750
Form Factor	ATX12V
Wattage	750 watts
Power Supply Design	Full Modular
Product	5.91 x 5.51 x 3.39 inches; 4.7 Pounds
Fan Size	120 Millimeters
Minimum Input Voltage	100 Volts   About this item 750W Power Supply - 750W of continuous power supply, certified by 80 PLUS Gold to deliver the maximum of 92% energy efficiency for reduced electricity bill.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges
added spec info

[Drayke Newall]

5 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

You are not reading my posts.  I said I have not had a noisy fan failure for years, because I replaced the el cheapo sleeve bearing fans with ball bearing fans in my older power supplies.  That was years ago.  

It doesn't matter the point is that you have had noisy fans (and not just one that can be attributed to a manufacturer failure) in the past that were obviously so bad that you needed to replace them. I have never had a noisy fan at all and I turn my comps off all the time. To me that reads as 24/7 on means noisy fans due to wear just like most tech people state like @Sam1 Bellisserian quoted earlier. My case fans are also not ball bearing and they are not noisy.

Even on my old 2008 PC I still use most days I have no fan noise and that PSU is an older 2008 model that its fan runs all the time and is not ball bearing. This shows that what you posted earlier that 24/7 running doesn't affect the pc and turning it off and on is bad is wrong.

[Jaylinbridges]

5 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

t doesn't matter the point is that you have had noisy fans (and not just one that can be attributed to a manufacturer failure) in the past that were obviously so bad that you needed to replace them. I have never had a noisy fan at all and I turn my comps off all the time

If your oldest running computer is only 2008, you did not buy the cheap $25 Allied 450W power supplies I did in the 1990's and early 2000's. Their cheap 90mm Taiwanese sleeve fans would last about 6 months.  I have had no fan failures since I started using quality ball bearing fans.  But I am glad you have never had a noisy fan - you must be too young then to have experienced them, or you always bought the highest quality supplies.  Good for you.  Are we done yet?

[Jaylinbridges]

19 minutes ago, Drayke Newall said:

This shows that what you posted earlier that 24/7 running doesn't affect the pc and turning it off and on is bad is wrong.

I was talking about hard drives, not fans.  I don't idle my systems because they are in use 24/7.  Only my three 24" monitors sleep when I am afk.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[MoiraKathleen]

2 hours ago, Maitimo said:

It's just occurred to me that this decision could well drive the movie industry out of California. If anyone needs high-powered computers, it's movie production studios.

The requirements are around the amount of energy used when the computer is only in idle or sleep mode.  It's also not a one-size-fits-all requirement - the more high-end the computer (larger power supply, graphic cards, other additional things) the larger the allowance of that amount is.  There are also other parts of the regulations that apply to other situations that have been being phased in.  The regulations were first released in 2016, I think, so all the manufacturers have had ample time to prepare, and I would imagine that most of them have.  I think this came to the forefront right now because the part of the regulations that has to do with home PC's just took effect 7/1/21 and many of Dell's Alienware desktops are not in compliance (though apparently all their gaming laptops and other non-Alienware desktops appear to be in compliance - at least they do not have notices on the web pages about not being able to be shipped to California and the other involved states). 

[Jaylinbridges]

20 minutes ago, MoiraKathleen said:

I think this came to the forefront right now because the part of the regulations that has to do with home PC's just took effect 7/1/21 and many of Dell's Alienware desktops are not in compliance

Dell is based in Texas?  Not surprised they see no reason to be compliant with the West Coast energy conservation rules  Texas has lax pollution laws anyway - They have natural gas and gulf coast oil to burn.

California was the first to require low smog emission autos.  It helped clean up the LA air.  It really is just the West Coast being ahead of the rest of country.  It's always been that way.  Now the leader in power outages and forest fires too.

 

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaylinbridges

[Kathlen Onyx]

25 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Dell is based in Texas?  Not surprised they see no reason to be compliant with the West Coast energy conservation rules  Texas has lax pollution laws anyway - They have natural gas and gulf coast oil to burn.

California was the first to require low smog emission autos.  It helped clean up the LA air.  It really is just the West Coast being ahead of the rest of country.  It's always been that way.  Now the leader in power outages and forest fires too.

 

Well Texas better get on board although ERCOT can't keep the power on without rolling outages so it's probably a mute point for them anyway.