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My Sim Is Now Apparently the Meeting Place of Parallel Universes. Whyyyyyyy?


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So, last night I experienced something I don't think I've every seen in SL before. A friend (ok, it was Maddy) dropped by the sim, Flagg, where I was doing some photography to chat, as she sometimes does, but, while she (and then, later, her alt) were literally supposedly standing next to me, neither of us could see each other. She appeared on my map (but with that icon that indicates an indeterminate altitude), and I appeared on hers -- and we were able to chat -- but neither of us was visible to the other.

The problem seems to have been limited to that one region: when we met in a sandbox, we could see each other.

But it was very weird: it was, for a bit, like we were each in alternate, different "instances" of SL that just happened to be partially connecting at that one region.

I'm presuming others have experienced something like this before? Any idea as to what caused it?

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The only thing I can think of is, there was a parcel border between you and one of the parcels was set with parcel privacy (avatar invisibility) turned on. It works both ways; avatars outside the parcel can't see those inside, and also those inside can't see those outside. However, this should also stop you seeing local chat as well, so.... maybe it's some other glitch...

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Just now, Maitimo said:

The only thing I can think of is, there was a parcel border between you and one of the parcels was set with parcel privacy (avatar invisibility) turned on. It works both ways; avatars outside the parcel can't see those inside, and also those inside can't see those outside. However, this should also stop you seeing local chat as well, so.... maybe it's some other glitch...

Thanks!

Actually, it's a sim I administer, so I know it's not a problem with the permissions. For that reason, too, I'm also sure that we were in the same parcel.

Weird . . .

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I have had this happen before when sitting on furniture... either both are sitting and can't see each other, or one is sitting and the other standing and can't see each other. It seems to fix itself by standing, but I don't know if that's the same as the issue you had. 

It could also be because you angered the Linden Gods by calling it a "sim" instead of a "region" and you're being punished. 😜

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Well, I just tested it, and the problem, whatever it was, has righted it self. Which is good . . . I really didn't want to have to contact LL about a region restart or whatever.

7 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said:

It could also be because you angered the Linden Gods by calling it a "sim" instead of a "region" and you're being punished. 😜

They can't make me! SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM!!!

(The ancient Greeks called this "hubris".)

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, last night I experienced something I don't think I've every seen in SL before. A friend (ok, it was Maddy) dropped by the sim, Flagg, where I was doing some photography to chat, as she sometimes does, but, while she (and then, later, her alt) were literally supposedly standing next to me, neither of us could see each other. She appeared on my map (but with that icon that indicates an indeterminate altitude), and I appeared on hers -- and we were able to chat -- but neither of us was visible to the other.

I actually had this happen at two different stores yesterday -- but all was fine when I returned to the stores a few hours later.

I wrote it off to something odd going on with SL or my ISP at the time.  I was also getting Search time-outs, Forum page time-outs, and MP time-outs all at the same time.

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1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, last night I experienced something I don't think I've every seen in SL before. A friend (ok, it was Maddy) dropped by the sim, Flagg, where I was doing some photography to chat, as she sometimes does, but, while she (and then, later, her alt) were literally supposedly standing next to me, neither of us could see each other. She appeared on my map (but with that icon that indicates an indeterminate altitude), and I appeared on hers -- and we were able to chat -- but neither of us was visible to the other.

The problem seems to have been limited to that one region: when we met in a sandbox, we could see each other.

But it was very weird: it was, for a bit, like we were each in alternate, different "instances" of SL that just happened to be partially connecting at that one region.

I'm presuming others have experienced something like this before? Any idea as to what caused it?

I don’t know what causes it, but it’s happened to me several times in the past, different people, different regions- but it was always one sided- not criss cross.  

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No, no idea.  I have had some "wonky" SL experiences lately though and I thought perhaps it's because of either LL moving stuff to "the clouds" (which I heard they have moved inventory) and/or the internet is a lot more full than it usually is due to "safer at home" rules because I have had a few weird experiences with the internet outside SL lately as well.  

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1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

No, no idea.  I have had some "wonky" SL experiences lately though and I thought perhaps it's because of either LL moving stuff to "the clouds" (which I heard they have moved inventory) and/or the internet is a lot more full than it usually is due to "safer at home" rules because I have had a few weird experiences with the internet outside SL lately as well.  

The outside SL stuff has to be because of more of us actively online at any given time.  There was a national network (probably ABC) news segment I didn’t pay 100% attention to that addressed this last week....  

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Wouldn't this be related to the gradual restoring of the optic fibre cable services that were/was recently accidentally cut in the US a little while ago?
Didn't LL have to divert tons of stuff to work around the problem?

That's my new fave saying: Tons of digital stuff - lol
(that doesn't weigh anything) 🤩😆😹😻

 

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6 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, I just tested it, and the problem, whatever it was, has righted it self. Which is good . . . I really didn't want to have to contact LL about a region restart or whatever.

They can't make me! SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM!!!

(The ancient Greeks called this "hubris".)

I responded with a "thank you" because this happens to be my own little SL rebellion. After eye-rolling at many, many people's pedantic diatribes about "it isn't a sim, it is a region..." my own little mission is to keep saying sim sim sim just to amuse myself with a little passive-aggressive F.U. I'm fine with it being hubris. :)  I really hate the mansplaining around this issue. (Yep, pet peeve thread.) (And yes, mansplaining done by both men and women and everyone else.)

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9 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, last night I experienced something I don't think I've every seen in SL before. A friend (ok, it was Maddy) dropped by the sim, Flagg, where I was doing some photography to chat, as she sometimes does, but, while she (and then, later, her alt) were literally supposedly standing next to me, neither of us could see each other. She appeared on my map (but with that icon that indicates an indeterminate altitude), and I appeared on hers -- and we were able to chat -- but neither of us was visible to the other.

The problem seems to have been limited to that one region: when we met in a sandbox, we could see each other.

But it was very weird: it was, for a bit, like we were each in alternate, different "instances" of SL that just happened to be partially connecting at that one region.

I'm presuming others have experienced something like this before? Any idea as to what caused it?

The sim/region probably needs a reset.

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I've had this happen before. This occurs because the ObjectUpdate representing the avatar was dropped. A simple fix is to change appearance, group tag, or just re-log.

Technical explanation:

Everything your viewer "sees" is created via a ObjectUpdate packet, even if it is new. ObjectUpdate can be read as a synonym for "ObjectCreate". If it doesn't exist, the viewer will create it. All ObjectUpdate packets contain enough information to create a object if it doesn't exist.
ObjectUpdate contains everything you can see, such as object type(Avatars are a type of object), UUID, Local ID(similar to UUID, but it is a number, computers like smaller numbers), textures, position, rotation, scale, floating text, even avatar group tags!

Physical objects, including avatars, are always simulated by the simulator, there is no physics engine on the viewer to "predict" physics, so the simulator has to send a lot of packets regarding the physical movement of objects. Sending a ObjectUpdate packet would be very wasteful(bandwidth wise) as it is basically re-sending the entire object data back to the viewer, so Linden Lab created a new packet called ImprovedTerseObjectUpdate.

ImprovedTerseObjectUpdate contains only physical data about the objects physical information, specifically the following: Local ID, Is Avatar flag, Collision normal(if avatar), position, velocity, acceleration, rotation, and angular velocity. It also includes time delta so it knows how much to scale a object's speed based on how slow the simulator is running.
This packet does not contain enough information to create a object. It just has a pointer to update the physical data.

So in the scenario of "ghost avatars", the ObjectUpdate message to create the avatar never appeared to the viewer, however the ImprovedTerseObjectUpdate did. But because the object was never created, it doesn't know what to do with the ImprovedTerseObjectUpdate, so it just discards it. The only way for this to be fixed is if they do something to cause a ObjectUpdate message, such as changing their group tag, appearance, or similar.

As for why you can still see their chat messages, chat is handled by ChatFromSimulator, which as long as the viewer receives it, it will process it, even if the Position value is out of range, the viewer just uses the position value for reference. The simulator decides if someone is in range or not.

Message references:

Edited by Chaser Zaks
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11 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

They can't make me! SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM!!!

(The ancient Greeks called this "hubris".)

I've been around long enough to remember when the Lindens officially called them sims.  It's not our fault that they can't make up their minds.

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9 minutes ago, Parhelion Palou said:

Even Lindens make mistakes. 😉 I call them regions but I'm not bothered by people calling them sims. I might orbit them, but that's just for fun.

SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM SIM

I am never logging in again.

Just kidding.

Still dealing with trying to get the place replumbed and the new hot water heater installed. Sucks when it's just the two of you, you're both getting old and you both have bad backs. But we'll get through it. Somehow. 🤪

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