Why do people get so irrationally angry over others on their land?

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

On 8/16/2019 at 1:20 PM, charlottevics said:

I clicked a random LM in my inventory, which just happened to be on someone's parcel

You just made that up, didn't you?

[Adam Spark]

Way over the top reaction. Yes its her right. Its our right to say chill, too.

I will say this - If I have to leave that quickly, I try to log from SL if I have just TP'd to such a location. Its the quickest way out.

I've accidentally TP'd to homes. I leave immediately after apologizing, unless the homeowner could care less about the intrusion and engages in chat. Yes, that does happen. Well it used to before everybody got offended by everything.

[sirhc DeSantis]

6 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

 

Didn't it ever occur to you that sometimes it's not possible to check anything before going afk? I don't know about you but I value my life and the life of my other half far more than I do SL or my computer.

Yes, That is why there is that big x in the top corner. Takes less than a quarter of a second. How hard would that be eh?

[Lyssa Greymoon]

21 hours ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

You just made that up, didn't you?

What, doesn't everyone who needs to go AFK before the wife can see what they're doing in haunted yiff mansion, open their landmarks, and find one that looked like a good place to go AFK the last time they were there, three years ago, teleport there and instantly minimize the viewer? That doesn't sound totally legit?

Edited August 18, 2019 by Lyssa Greymoon

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, sirhc DeSantis said:

Yes, That is why there is that big x in the top corner. Takes less than a quarter of a second. How hard would that be eh?

 I'm not taking the time to close out of SL before rushing him to the hospital. I'm not going to let him die because of some virtual world. ***** that.

[Qie Niangao]

This could be the killer SL app: Open Inventory, filter for Landmarks, teleport at random... et voilà, "Landmark Roulette !"

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

2 hours ago, Selene Gregoire said:

 I'm not taking the time to close out of SL before rushing him to the hospital. I'm not going to let him die because of some virtual world. ***** that.

In this case, the OP indicated she was AFK for 5 minutes. I don't think the life or death emergency excuse applies for her actions. 

I do think we didn't get the whole story, though. It would be interesting to hear it from the land owner's POV. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

"Pretty" may no longer be a requirement. I can usually hang out as "Maddy" in a sandbox without attracting attention, but I sometimes get hit on when I'm the Li'l Devil. And yesterday, as I was starting work on a particle avi, I got hit on by two avis, one old, one new, both looking for friendship.

Or maybe my sense of style is so bad that Maddy is less attractive than this?...

 

Ooh you look like a dandelion, Maddy! (Which reminds me of that dandelion field  you rezzed at the Forum Cartel hangout.)

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

In this case, the OP indicated she was AFK for 5 minutes. I don't think the life or death emergency excuse applies for her actions. 

I do think we didn't get the whole story, though. It would be interesting to hear it from the land owner's POV. 

I never said it did. All I said was there are times when people aren't going to be able to just hit that little X in an emergency situation. Then someone had the unmitigated gall to try to tell me I could take the time to close out a virtual world rather than use that time to save someone's life. That is messed up. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

14 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I never said it did. All I said was there are times when people aren't going to be able to just hit that little X in an emergency situation. Then someone had the unmitigated gall to try to tell me I could take the time to close out a virtual world rather than use that time to save someone's life. That is messed up. 

OK.

[Madelaine McMasters]

39 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said:

Which reminds me of that dandelion field  you rezzed at the Forum Cartel hangout.

[Arielle Popstar]

I don't see this as being about the OP but about a tenant who went ballistic for no apparent reason. If something like that happened in R/L, my first thought would be to wonder what it is the tenants were trying to hide using their abusiveness as a distraction. 

[Sylvia Tamalyn]

22 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I see I was appropriately scratching my head over your antics. lol

[Prokofy Neva]

On 8/16/2019 at 7:20 AM, charlottevics said:

I was in a heavily crowded region that was lagging me to death so I clicked a random LM in my inventory, which just happened to be on someone's parcel but I also had to go AFK right at that moment. When I got back I'd understandably been kicked from the parcel. Only she hadn't ejected me but actually pushed my avatar right out of the parcel either with her avatar or a weapon and had been stood there hurling abuse at me for 5 minutes straight while I was away, insulting my character and my RL profile picture. So then her partner and the region owner comes in, and I get banned from the entire sim for "trespassing and being abusive".

So if you don't actually WANT people in your land, why keep it open? That's why the option is there. Close it off if you don't like visitors. It's just the logical thing to do. If I come to your land and it's open with no security I'm just gonna naturally assume you don't mind people on it.  Visitors on your land that are doing nothing harmful doesn't give you the right to act like an abusive psycho towards them. But as ever people are still messed up in this game and take it way too serious. 

I deal with this issue constantly as a rentals agent. It is the kind of real-life human behaviour that is hard-wired into the brain from evolution, the territorial imperative, and you can't get rid of it online so you have to work around it and if anything, accommodate it.

The fear and hatred are rooted not only in a need for resources, basically food, shelter, and fire, and keeping "the other" away, but later fear that one's progeny might not actually be one's heirs, i.e. if the wife had another partner who fathered her children. Paternity and property rights go together.

Since you don't really need any of this in SL, especially the proof of paternity and the food, why don't you just open up your house and if anything perch on top of it like a bird since you don't need shelter? Why are houses like RL houses and not branches in a tree (mostly)?

Again, you can't erase human hard-wiring so don't try to.

People really, really, really fear a stranger even going on their sex furniture with someone else, let alone their own partner -- and this is in a world where you can't catch STDs or AIDS.

The Lindens over the years gave up their cosmic engineering around this issue and put in property ownership, property lines, ban lines, and allowed orbs -- which I think they should have deprecated at the dawn of time. 

Later, they put in "avatars can't see me" -- which you would think is the ultimate privacy. But yet it isn't, because the fear of somebody in your house, maybe on your sex furniture or just "there" with their cooties is completely unsettling. It's the biggest reason for move-outs. Yet the people complaining about it usually can't afford the expensive humper bunkers on the homesteads or islands. So they make skyboxes and orbs -- but it's never enough because someone could still cam them (and Firestorm and others let you know when someone cams you. 

So why don't these paranoid people lock up their land with orbs or "group only"? Because either they don't know how, or their landlord doesn't allow it (like me, on the ground, although skyboxes are ok), or they still want the convenience of their friends arriving easily -- but want to vent all their paranoia and hate on strangers that stumble across the line.

I think there's also a basic lack of good will in SL that could have been remedied much earlier in its history by not allowing ad farms and griefing as much but honestly, I don't know how to do it today. Except by patiently telling people who get crazy like this that the reason you landed in their yard is because you always type in the name of a sim to the world map and TP there rather than hunting for LMs, and for 10 years the 128,128,0 spot was a big, empty, abandoned field, but today it's their back yard. And? So what? It's not worth ejecting over when I immediately fly away anyhow? 

I have zillions of LMs of stores and various interesting sites that are now changed, and I go there and land in somebody's house sometimes, and get a boot. They don't care about explanations.

I don't know how to fix this. Over time, as land gets cheaper and it is easier to get rid of annoying types without maximum security methods, perhaps with soft bumpers that leave 96 m on parcels for people to pass through or something, or with some kind of system of verification that lets people know you are not a creep (they also tried that in early SL with pos rates and neg rates and it went in the opposite direction).

Hell is other people. So is Second Life. But since those other people might be your customers, at least if you are in business you learn to think twice before ejecting people.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

This could be the killer SL app: Open Inventory, filter for Landmarks, teleport at random... et voilà, "Landmark Roulette !"

I have a device called Random Compass that does that, people fill it with landmarks and you click and go to a random one. It's fun! Work to maintain, however.

[kiramanell]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:51 PM, Amina Sopwith said:

I can see why someone would get annoyed by a non responsive avatar, but once they're off your land there's no good reason to care. And it's really not abusive to stand on public ground not talking to anyone.

 

^^ This. Once you pushed them off your parcel (with a weapon, no less, geez), I don't see how just idling can be construed as being 'abusive', really. Maybe the Landlord had a little powertrip, and wanted to show what he/she could do. See, if I were a land owner, and a parcel renter asked for my assitance, my first question would likely have been, "Is she still on your parcel?" And if the answer were negative, I would have kindly told her that just being on an open land, idling no less, is no reason for me to get involved -- let alone ban someone over. So, possibly, as Sylvia said, we may not have the full story.

[kiramanell]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I deal with this issue constantly as a rentals agent. It is the kind of real-life human behaviour that is hard-wired into the brain from evolution, the territorial imperative, and you can't get rid of it online so you have to work around it and if anything, accommodate it.

The fear and hatred are rooted not only in a need for resources, basically food, shelter, and fire, and keeping "the other" away, but later fear that one's progeny might not actually be one's heirs, i.e. if the wife had another partner who fathered her children. Paternity and property rights go together.

Since you don't really need any of this in SL, especially the proof of paternity and the food, why don't you just open up your house and if anything perch on top of it like a bird since you don't need shelter? Why are houses like RL houses and not branches in a tree (mostly)?

Again, you can't erase human hard-wiring so don't try to.

People really, really, really fear a stranger even going on their sex furniture with someone else, let alone their own partner -- and this is in a world where you can't catch STDs or AIDS.

The Lindens over the years gave up their cosmic engineering around this issue and put in property ownership, property lines, ban lines, and allowed orbs -- which I think they should have deprecated at the dawn of time. 

Later, they put in "avatars can't see me" -- which you would think is the ultimate privacy. But yet it isn't, because the fear of somebody in your house, maybe on your sex furniture or just "there" with their cooties is completely unsettling. It's the biggest reason for move-outs. Yet the people complaining about it usually can't afford the expensive humper bunkers on the homesteads or islands. So they make skyboxes and orbs -- but it's never enough because someone could still cam them (and Firestorm and others let you know when someone cams you. 

So why don't these paranoid people lock up their land with orbs or "group only"? Because either they don't know how, or their landlord doesn't allow it (like me, on the ground, although skyboxes are ok), or they still want the convenience of their friends arriving easily -- but want to vent all their paranoia and hate on strangers that stumble across the line.

I think there's also a basic lack of good will in SL that could have been remedied much earlier in its history by not allowing ad farms and griefing as much but honestly, I don't know how to do it today. Except by patiently telling people who get crazy like this that the reason you landed in their yard is because you always type in the name of a sim to the world map and TP there rather than hunting for LMs, and for 10 years the 128,128,0 spot was a big, empty, abandoned field, but today it's their back yard. And? So what? It's not worth ejecting over when I immediately fly away anyhow? 

I have zillions of LMs of stores and various interesting sites that are now changed, and I go there and land in somebody's house sometimes, and get a boot. They don't care about explanations.

I don't know how to fix this. Over time, as land gets cheaper and it is easier to get rid of annoying types without maximum security methods, perhaps with soft bumpers that leave 96 m on parcels for people to pass through or something, or with some kind of system of verification that lets people know you are not a creep (they also tried that in early SL with pos rates and neg rates and it went in the opposite direction).

Hell is other people. So is Second Life. But since those other people might be your customers, at least if you are in business you learn to think twice before ejecting people.

 

^^ A good analysis.

Paranoia begets paranoia. And this is, of course, what LL must have realized since the advent of Bellisseria. It's one thing to try and be sensitive to people legitimate need for privacy, but offering all these tools/options to keep everyone out, or even have you not show up on their cam, really also breeds animosity towards others, and a growing sense that everyone else around you is scary.

So, I'm glad, at least with Bellisseria, they put a stop to this ever-increasing paranoia, and basically said, "Yes, we'll still give you protection when needed, but you know you are part of a neighborhood, right?! Try and actually talk to someone. Not everyone is scary. And who knows, you may even make a new friend or two." I like their new approach better.  

[Lindal Kidd]

[Selene Gregoire]

6 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

^^ A good analysis.

Paranoia begets paranoia. And this is, of course, what LL must have realized since the advent of Bellisseria. It's one thing to try and be sensitive to people legitimate need for privacy, but offering all these tools/options to keep everyone out, or even have you not show up on their cam, really also breeds animosity towards others, and a growing sense that everyone else around you is scary.

So, I'm glad, at least with Bellisseria, they put a stop to this ever-increasing paranoia, and basically said, "Yes, we'll still give you protection when needed, but you know you are part of a neighborhood, right?! Try and actually talk to someone. Not everyone is scary. And who knows, you may even make a new friend or two." I like their new approach better.  

I wish it was as easy as you make it sound. It isn't. I'm pretty sure I wasn't just being paranoid when my ex stalker was still alive and stalking me.

It is not the monsters we should be afraid of; it is the people that don't recognize the monsters inside themselves.

[kiramanell]

23 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

I wish it was as easy as you make it sound. It isn't. I'm pretty sure I wasn't just being paranoid when my ex stalker was still alive and stalking me.

It is not the monsters we should be afraid of; it is the people that don't recognize the monsters inside themselves.

 

And I'm sorry to hear you got stalked: that's nasty, in any walk of life, real or virtual.

I can also say, however, with a certain degree of confidence, that not all Residents of Bellisseria are monsters, stalkers, or even just scary folks. Not saying you imputed that, of course, but I think it's the latter notion that LL tried to break away from: the idea that everyone is scary. That is a societal problem, really, with ppl wanting to live in gated communities and all, these days, far away from the scary people outside.

Sad part is, that there really are a lot of scary ppl out there; especially so in RL, I'd say. But a lonesome girl in SL, being pushed off a parcel, just idling, I don't particularly consider that a huge threat. And that's where I come full circle when I said "Paranoia begets paranoia," because the effect compounds, and the following week they'll say to each other "Beware, another scary person! Because remember last week, when we had to ban that other abusive girl? It never ends!" Whereas maybe the first girl really didn't need to be chased off to begin with?

Mind you, I'm saying this mostly to myself, really, as a reminder that I need to choose, every day again, not to live scared of ppl all the time. Risky, to a degree, but overall, I think, better for the soul.

Edited August 18, 2019 by kiramanell

[Garnet Psaltery]

7 hours ago, kiramanell said:

 

^^ This. Once you pushed them off your parcel (with a weapon, no less, geez)

Well, it's not certain that a weapon was used.  My instrument of shoving is generally a newly-rezzed sideways-stretched prim that pushes a person gently out of the way (and is amusing because their legs start thrashing about).  Call me silly.

[kiramanell]

1 minute ago, Garnet Psaltery said:

Well, it's not certain that a weapon was used.  My instrument of shoving is generally a newly-rezzed sideways-stretched prim that pushes a person gently out of the way (and is amusing because their legs start thrashing about).  Call me silly.

 

True that. The OP only said "either with her avatar or a weapon " So, indeed, we don't know.

[Selene Gregoire]

14 minutes ago, kiramanell said:

 

And I'm sorry to hear you got stalked: that's nasty, in any walk of life, real or virtual.

I can also say, however, with a certain degree of confidence, that not all Residents of Bellisseria are monsters, stalkers, or even just scary folks. Not saying you imputed that, of course, but I think it's the latter notion that LL tried to break away from: the idea that everyone is scary. That is a societal problem, really, with ppl wanting to live in gated communities and all, these days, far away from the scary people outside.

Sad part is, that there really are a lot of scary ppl out there; especially so in RL, I'd say. But a lonesome girl in SL, being pushed off a parcel, just idling, I don't particularly consider that a huge threat. And that's where I come full circle when I said "Paranoia begets paranoia," because the effect compounds, and the following week they'll say to each other "Beware, another scary person! Because remember last week, when we had to ban that other abusive girl? It never ends!" Whereas maybe the first girl really didn't need to be chased off to begin with?

Mind you, I'm saying this mostly to myself, really, as a reminder that I need to choose, every day again, not to live scared of ppl all the time. Risky, to a degree, but overall, I think, better for the soul.

I know what you are trying to say. The problem is, survivors don't always get to choose, after years of abuse and then the stalking. And he never saw anything wrong with what he did. He never recognized the monster inside himself. 

If you haven't seen them yet, you may want to read my posts from yesterday to BloodDoll in the pet peeves thread.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

cause people are weird.

[JennCrossSL]

I’ve been away a while, but there used to be a problem with people dropping replicating items on open-drop land and griefing the landowner.

Really, thats more of a “take care of your Land Permissions” issue; but I guess it could make some folks testy....