TMP Legacy mesh body

[Alyona Su]

47 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Likely because many of the nay-sayers grabbed it (and regardless if they actually tried it or not) left unfair negative reviews, so they delisted it. If they relist it after delisting it it would be agains Market Place TOS. They'd have to wait at least a month or two, I imagine, before it's considered a "delist/relist" scenario.

 

26 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

There are still some demos up, I checked yesterday. The male and the pregnancy one are up there. But yeah, I would have agree with @Alyona Su there. It is probably due to them making negative reviews, and only getting the demo.

This also brings a question for @Dakota Linden - where this is a very likely possibility and plausible scenario: a merchant (more or less) being "forced" (by pressure) to delist an item - how long must they wait before putting it up again before it is no longer counted as the naughty delist/relist offense? Or, in other words, what is the "statute of limitations" on that offense?

If I could find the Market Place3 JIRA or whever it is 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Alyona Su

[Sammy Huntsman]

23 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

People leave legit reviews, so a product runs away...

The demo reveals some serious 'not ready yet' issues - like the seams, the lack of omega, high script load and high complexity.

I am not yet sure the HUD is networked still - an applier I used from my skin's maker didn't load into the Style thing... So the demo did not YET reveal this to me. But that is a major issue if it still is.

'Naysayer?'

- legit issues should be noted.

There is no right to a 5-star review. Reviews should be detailed and honest.

 

That noted, I didn't get the demo from MP. You can get it in their store... which reveals another issue. The use of the experience system - which is like handing someone else RLV control of you...

 

We are not talking about the legit reviews, we are talking about people being jerks just to be jerks. As they hate the company already. Kinda unfair to leave a really negative review, when they don't really own the product, and are not on their to leave a legit and honest review.

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

I really like my Legacy body, almost said Genus head there. Like the Genus head, it is very mouldable and you can really play around with the body more than you can any other body. Without it looking kinda off. That is a big plus for me, if I can mould it to my liking, and have the ability to make many different looks out of it. That is definitely what I want in a body. Now I know people are gonna boo me off the hypothetical stage. But I honestly don't care. Would I say it's the best body? Yes, for the one reason that I have the ability to mould it to my liking, as I said before. But again, me saying it's the best body is very subjective and everyone will have their idea of the best body. I do like the other bodies, don't get me wrong. But this body gives me more bang for my buck.

[Pussycat Catnap]

27 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

We are not talking about the legit reviews, we are talking about people being jerks just to be jerks. As they hate the company already. Kinda unfair to leave a really negative review, when they don't really own the product, and are not on their to leave a legit and honest review.

Illegitimate reviews can be flagged and removed. So... I doubt that is the case.

 

This is what threw me off:

Those are all over the body.

Others have noted:

- Those are hard technical issues...

...even if you disagree about the networked HUD and experience usage, lack of Omega, neck seams, and body/head texture mismatches (which I suspect are due to materials - on the HUD you can only use materials with their skins, not with your own. Applying a material changes it to their branded skin...).

 

That's not 'naysayers', that's a product that wasn't ready to go live.

 

I still -almost- bought it. $3500L now or wait till this is fixed but pay full price... and maybe not get those deformers that seem to be ONLY for early buyers or might have a cost later on (not sure).

Some years ago another body had issues like these seams. It also got slammed hard in reviews... and was rapidly fixed. I can't remember if it was Maitreya or Belleza or someone else... whoever itwas - I remember it getting a fix and some apologies.

That said... Legacy is NOT unique is fleeing from bad reviews over legit issues... If they fix this... the community will likely give them a pass for it... time will tell.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[Sammy Huntsman]

4 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Illegitimate reviews can be flagged and removed. So... I doubt that is the case.

 

This is what threw me off:

 

And that is totally fine, but imagine getting so many that you can't take the time and unlist 1000s of negative reviews. Do you just leave them there, and let these people keep on doing this, or do you delist the item and wait the allotted time and put it back up.

 

[Orwar]

10 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

And that is totally fine, but imagine getting so many that you can't take the time and unlist 1000s of negative reviews. Do you just leave them there, and let these people keep on doing this, or do you delist the item and wait the allotted time and put it back up.

   Negative reviews based on valid concerns with the product, such as it being a broken, unfinished mess shouldn't be removed, though. A bad product should have bad reviews, that's sort of why there is a review system, to let others know how your experience with the product was.

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Negative reviews based on valid concerns with the product, such as it being a broken, unfinished mess shouldn't be removed, though. A bad product should have bad reviews, that's sort of why there is a review system, to let others know how your experience with the product was.

I was not talking about bad reviews, and in legit bad reviews. I am talking about ones, that people are a jerk just to be a jerk, using their hate for the last body as a way to fuel their jerkiness. That is basically all I am saying. There is such thing as people who review just to be buttholes, and people who do a legitimate bad review.

[Alyona Su]

44 minutes ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

This is what threw me off:

Those are all over the body.

Huh - I'm not seeing any of that (and I do have dark skin every bit as dark as yours.) - I'll not proffer a cause or solution. I only saying that was you see I do not see.

Quote

Others have noted:

You are now throwing around hearsay to improve your argument (and not even directly quoting them.) This devalues your argument, somewhat. It lessens the very legitimacy of your previous statements by giving the impression that what you personally are witnessing is not of importance enough all by itself and needs additional support to hold up your argument.

I think it best to only speak for yourself, or use the "Quote" feature so that "what others say..." can be vetted by readers. Own your own mind.

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

And that is totally fine, but imagine getting so many that you can't take the time and unlist 1000s of negative reviews. Do you just leave them there, and let these people keep on doing this, or do you delist the item and wait the allotted time and put it back up.

 

I wonder if 1000s of negative reviews could be an exxaggeration from your side.

If it really was that many, something about first TMP, then Legacy, must really has provoked people.

Everybody who bought it inworld and wanted to defend the brand could take a demo from the MP and write about how well it worked for them. You should think it was some balance in the reviews.

I didn't know a merchant could unlist reviews that stayed on topic and in a polite tone? Perhaps that was the issue. Too many well written reviews that voiced legitimate concerns. They could not flag them to LL and have them removed.

[Sammy Huntsman]

58 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I wonder if 1000s of negative reviews could be an exxaggeration from your side.

If it really was that many, something about first TMP, then Legacy, must really has provoked people.

Everybody who bought it inworld and wanted to defend the brand could take a demo from the MP and write about how well it worked for them. You should think it was some balance in the reviews.

I didn't know a merchant could unlist reviews that stayed on topic and in a polite tone? Perhaps that was the issue. Too many well written reviews that voiced legitimate concerns. They could not flag them to LL and have them removed.

I was using 1000s as an example. I really don't know the actual number of reviews were actually constructive. But my whole point, is that someone can only take so many Ahole reviews that do not provide any insight or how they can improve, without getting annoyed and having to take something down.

[Marianne Little]

5 minutes ago, halebore Aeon said:

I was using 1000s as an example. I really don't know the actual number of reviews were actually constructive. But my whole point, is that someone can only take so many Ahole reviews that do not provide any insight or how they can improve, without getting annoyed and having to take something down.

But you assume it is Ahole reviews? What is an Ahole review? Is it pointing out that the neck fit is not so good, and asking them to improve it before they will buy the body a suggestion of improvement? Or that the body show creaks? I have heard that Marketplace review needs to be factually wrong, off-topic, or clearly flamatory for it to warrant removal.

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Marianne Little

[Love Zhaoying]

4 hours ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

Illegitimate reviews can be flagged and removed. So... I doubt that is the case.

 

This is what threw me off:

Those are all over the body.

Others have noted:

- Those are hard technical issues...

...even if you disagree about the networked HUD and experience usage, lack of Omega, neck seams, and body/head texture mismatches (which I suspect are due to materials - on the HUD you can only use materials with their skins, not with your own. Applying a material changes it to their branded skin...).

 

That's not 'naysayers', that's a product that wasn't ready to go live.

 

I still -almost- bought it. $3500L now or wait till this is fixed but pay full price... and maybe not get those deformers that seem to be ONLY for early buyers or might have a cost later on (not sure).

Some years ago another body had issues like these seams. It also got slammed hard in reviews... and was rapidly fixed. I can't remember if it was Maitreya or Belleza or someone else... whoever itwas - I remember it getting a fix and some apologies.

That said... Legacy is NOT unique is fleeing from bad reviews over legit issues... If they fix this... the community will likely give them a pass for it... time will tell.

It appears that product is..half-baked.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

4 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

You are now throwing around hearsay to improve your argument (and not even directly quoting them.) This devalues your argument, somewhat. It lessens the very legitimacy of your previous statements by giving the impression that what you personally are witnessing is not of importance enough all by itself and needs additional support to hold up your argument.

That's just trying to distract from my point. As to one of those others - I quoted them 1 page earlier - they were at the time in active disagreement with you and the quote I made was from them quoting you having quoted them...

Then I gave a screenshot of the very issue in the post you say is me giving 'hearsay'...

/fail

 

I tried to give this body a try... DESPITE the company's history of using network HUDs and not supporting Omega... and when I did give it a try the other day... I found all these new flaws...

And reactions of denial only serve to harden my opinion.

It has a good basic form - but it's not ready yet... It looks like it's inwork. It's way too complex for 2019*, too heavy script load for 2019*, has seams / gaps, and texture issues from the lack of ability to adjust materials without reverting skin color (unless this is a demo issue only, but nothing gave that impression).

*Complexity and Script load like this were normal some years ago - it's what I see on my older bodies like Lena Lush, or early versions of Belleza and Maitreya. But these days bodies typically have half this complexity and even before deleting scripts - half this script usage. Given how minimal the HUD is, and that it's supposed to be BOM - I would expect much smaller scripts and way lower complexity.

 

If they put out an patch to fix these issues, I will look again. If you think I am being negative here, you should have been around to see what my first review of Belleza was like... I was brutal against that body... and now it's my go to choice because they fixed every last concern I had. This isn't me being negative, this is me being critical. I WANT to flip my opinions on these things...

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by Pussycat Catnap

[steeljane42]

6 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Likely because many of the nay-sayers grabbed it (and regardless if they actually tried it or not) left unfair negative reviews, so they delisted it. If they relist it after delisting it it would be agains Market Place TOS. They'd have to wait at least a month or two, I imagine, before it's considered a "delist/relist" scenario.

They actually, in fact, did try to relist demo the avoid the negative reviews.

Here is the original demo link: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Try-On-LEGACY-The-Ultimate-Meshbody-All-New-Next-Generation-Hyper-Real-HD-SL-UV-Closet-Compatible-Bento/17495698

And here is the relisted product: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Try-On-LEGACY-The-Ultimate-Meshbody-All-New-Next-Generation-Hyper-Real-HD-SL-UV-Closet-Compatible-Bento/18473263

I did report the 2nd one personally (for relisting) as it did appear on MP right after I posted in other thread about demo vanishing from the MP. Considering that the male and pregnancy body demos are still there, because they have 1 5* and 0 reviews, it's pretty obvious why they did this - to get rid of the negative reviews.

Shady business is shady, no matter what "valid excuses" anyone is trying to make. You don't see big brands like addams or blueberry doing this, even for products that are faulty (both have them, not many, but still) and people posting 1* reviews for that reason.

Both links still appear in google search, just in case if anyone thinks "it's made up and nay-sayers".

 

P. S.

Demo had ~30 reviews with 3.5* total rating. Most that weren't 4 or 5 stars were pointing towards lack of omega, slow hud, neck seam and mesh issues. Besides, as already noted, merchants have an option to report to LL if they think the review has nothing to do with their product or just plan trolling. Guess it didn't fit their "uitimate and elite" description too well, must have full 5* to attract the kind of people that fall for that kind of PR.

Edited December 4, 2019 by steeljane42

[Pussycat Catnap]

13 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

P. S.

Demo had ~30 reviews with 3.5* total rating. Most that weren't 4 or 5 stars were pointing towards lack of omega, slow hud, neck seam and mesh issues. Besides, as already noted, merchants have an option to report to LL if they think the review has nothing to do with their product or just plan trolling. Guess it didn't fit their "uitimate and elite" description too well, must have full 5* to attract the kind of people that fall for that kind of PR.

3.5* is actually not bad...

It is bad on MP because merchants attack people that give any non 5-star review. But if you go look on Amazon or Yelp... that's a product you buy or a restaurant you eat in...

 

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, Pussycat Catnap said:

3.5* is actually not bad...

It is bad on MP because merchants attack people that give any non 5-star review. But if you go look on Amazon or Yelp... that's a product you buy or a restaurant you eat in...

 

I concur. three stars is "average" - neither good nor bad (and that also is the recommended definition in the knowledge-base). I only ever give four stars if I'm impressed and five stars if I'm wowed.

1 hour ago, steeljane42 said:

I did report the 2nd one personally (for relisting) as it did appear on MP right after I posted in other thread about demo vanishing from the MP.

And you are absolutely right for doing so. I wrote a book a long time ago about successfully doing business in SL and in a later edition I harped on always leaving negative reviews up because it legitimizes your product. I also recommend to merchants that they should *always* comment on a revue, positive or negative, because that shows the merchant is active and willing to engage their customers.

@Dakota Linden - can you provide a link or URL to the Market Place Jira, or whatever it is where we can put feature-requests? Because reviews on items marked as a demo really shouldn't be there, even if only to prevent abuse and that is a feature request I'd submit.

[Cinos Field]

I've always found that demo reviews are, if policed for obvious "review bombing" just as valuable as the rest. Those gaps, for example, might not appear when someone tries the demo, and so reading about them in the reviews would allow them to not miss that flaw. I personally always read reviews for both the demo and the full product.

[Orwar]

36 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

Because reviews on items marked as a demo really shouldn't be there, even if only to prevent abuse and that is a feature request I'd submit.

   What if I want to complain about the demo not containing any actual textures apart from a blank white sheet with 'demo' spammed all over it in red text, making it pretty much impossible to determine whether the textures on the real product are decent?

[Qwestor Janus]

About networked body HUD. I just discovered that from my “StyleMod” of TMP body, which I bought sometime, the opportunity to change the textures of things from TMP Boutique was lost. What is next? Skins or third-party appliers for body will be taken away? Are Legacy sales going so bad that they want to make me pay again? And where is the guarantee that like that will not happen with new body? *upd Really "don't have"? You are seriously?

Edited December 5, 2019 by Qwestor Janus
added picture

[missyrideout]

10 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Huh - I'm not seeing any of that (and I do have dark skin every bit as dark as yours.) - I'll not proffer a cause or solution. I only saying that was you see I do not see.

You are now throwing around hearsay to improve your argument (and not even directly quoting them.) This devalues your argument, somewhat. It lessens the very legitimacy of your previous statements by giving the impression that what you personally are witnessing is not of importance enough all by itself and needs additional support to hold up your argument.

I think it best to only speak for yourself, or use the "Quote" feature so that "what others say..." can be vetted by readers. Own your own mind.

Go a couple thousand meters above sky level and look again. Even 1000m may be enough. 

[Alyona Su]

12 hours ago, Orwar said:

   What if I want to complain about the demo not containing any actual textures apart from a blank white sheet with 'demo' spammed all over it in red text, making it pretty much impossible to determine whether the textures on the real product are decent?

IM to creator? LOL Are we not all often griping about negative reviews where even an attempt to the creator was never attempted?

[Alyona Su]

8 hours ago, missyrideout said:

Go a couple thousand meters above sky level and look again. Even 1000m may be enough. 

This happens with many mesh things. Additionally, when was that picture taken? (Rhetorical question) the body has been updated already, I don't know if any of it applied to that or not, but I'm not seeing it (and yes, I do go that high in-world, often. Just making a counter-point, that's all. The fact with SL has often been that what you see is not always what others see. It really is an individual experience.

[Orwar]

5 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

IM to creator?

   I could. But if the demo doesn't actually 'demonstrate' the product, i.e. what a bloody demo is supposed to do, I'll just regard it as 'not having a demo, default to shopping rule #1': "No demo, no purchase".

[Alyona Su]

6 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   I could. But if the demo doesn't actually 'demonstrate' the product, i.e. what a bloody demo is supposed to do, I'll just regard it as 'not having a demo, default to shopping rule #1': "No demo, no purchase".

Precisely.

[OddPieceLady]

Ugh I got the TMP body and regretted it from day 1, no way should anyone trust this company, if you have Lara or Freya then you've already got more than enough, everything fits Lara and she's a nice mesh design so that's better than investing in another one. And Freya has not a complete wardrobe it's true but a decent amount to enjoy. Only fools buy TMP....they just rip people off with crap and call it acceptable, the image at the top if this thread looks like they forgot to turn off the UV map, pathetic company.

Edited December 8, 2019 by OddPieceLady
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