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TMP Legacy mesh body

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13 hours ago, Kristie Lemon said:

I thought about changing to the Legacy body today when I noticed an issue I didn't think would recur.

Right now, I use a Slink HG body, Lelutka Greer head, with League Alessa skins on the head and League Isla pale skins on my BoM body.  There is absolutely no neck seam.  This has been true since I switched to League and Lelutka in 2018.

Using the exact same skin (which is NOT made specifically for a Slink body), I get a neck seam when using the BoM Legacy body.  It's very subtle, but too much for me.

Is this a problem with Legacy?  Despite the superior shape of Legacy and the increasing clothing support, I think this will make the body a no-go for me.  I can't stand that seam.

I am using Legacy in BOM mode and Genus head in BOM mode and get zero neck seam. The caveat in all of this, which is true for most onion-skinned bodies and heads "converted" to BOM, is the materials and other settings; shine or sheen or whatever.

I'm sure you already know all this, so I will describe for others: The issue also is that head and body are made by different creators. The point being that for BOM, removing the neck seam entirely requires removing every possible setting that changes the tone of the head and body both; turn off all materials settings. BOM can have its own materials and using tattoos, etc, can also mimic materials. For BOM, the mesh head and body need to be as transparent as possible.

There always will be a neck seam, it cannot be removed entirely, but if you can get it that it's entirely invisible in calWL unless you alt-cam to within clipping distance (the point where the camera goes into the mesh) and know where to look - it will be there, but only you can see it because you know where to look for it.

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3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I am using Legacy in BOM mode and Genus head in BOM mode and get zero neck seam. The caveat in all of this, which is true for most onion-skinned bodies and heads "converted" to BOM, is the materials and other settings; shine or sheen or whatever.

I'm sure you already know all this, so I will describe for others: The issue also is that head and body are made by different creators. The point being that for BOM, removing the neck seam entirely requires removing every possible setting that changes the tone of the head and body both; turn off all materials settings. BOM can have its own materials and using tattoos, etc, can also mimic materials. For BOM, the mesh head and body need to be as transparent as possible.

There always will be a neck seam, it cannot be removed entirely, but if you can get it that it's entirely invisible in calWL unless you alt-cam to within clipping distance (the point where the camera goes into the mesh) and know where to look - it will be there, but only you can see it because you know where to look for it.

Thank you for the response!

I couldn't really follow it, but I tried a bunch of demos today for Lelutka and Catwa and couldn't get the seam to disappear, even if each head had no seams with my Slink body.  

I wish I could figure it out and get rid of the seam in the same way because I would upgrade to Legacy in an instant.  

Edited by Kristie Lemon

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20 minutes ago, Kristie Lemon said:

Thank you for the response!

I couldn't really follow it, but I tried a bunch of demos today for Lelutka and Catwa and couldn't get the seam to disappear, even if each head had no seams with my Slink body.  

I wish I could figure it out and get rid of the seam in the same way because I would upgrade to Legacy in an instant.  

The Slink is natural BOM (I presume that's the one you're using) - which is how I wish they all were, perhaps in the future.

For Legacy body, you have to turn off all materials. I have it on my alt and I'm not in there right now - so this is from memory. I think you need to turn off all effects first, before turning on the BOM option, because doing it in reverse seems to affect the BOM option. Turn off all sheen or "shine" - turn off any sweat or wet/oil look. This needs to be actively done because the default is with an "oil sheen" I think.

After going through the HUD settings and manually turning off all effects, then set the BOM last. Be sure to be in calWL - it's the best windlight for matching colors of attachments, etc., so it also is the best windlight for looking at neck-seam removal efforts.

Part of the problem that no one can deal with also: Different wind lights *will* show the neck seam (even on your SLINK, albeit: barely) - this is because of the different creators (body versus head) - the only way to literally obliterate the neck seam is if both body and head creator are the same and it's a head-to-toe skin. I've seen (on very rare occasion, admittedly) where a body skin and head tattoo (for the head skin) can create a telltale seam as well.

I've purchased a professionally-made skin Master PSD file so I could tweak it and touch it up the way I want. And I kept seeing that darned seam! No matter what I did, it was always there. Then I used a different viewer and voila! That seam is *gone!* This is what reminded me about how touchy that seam is with the slightest difference in graphic settings

So, for me, the truest test for head/body neck seam (to see the true quality of the skin, actually) is to go into POSE mode, preferably in a sand box with little lag, set windlight to calWL and turn ALL graphic settings to *maximum* (Highest quality you can get) - frame rates may drop to -1 LOL BUT, you will see the truest quality of what you're looking at.

Also remember that anything we do regarding eliminating the neck seam only works for us in our own viewers, other people may still see the neck seam depending on their own graphic settings. 

Edited by Alyona Su

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10 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

The Slink is natural BOM (I presume that's the one you're using) - which is how I wish they all were, perhaps in the future.

For Legacy body, you have to turn off all materials. I have it on my alt and I'm not in there right now - so this is from memory. I think you need to turn off all effects first, before turning on the BOM option, because doing it in reverse seems to affect the BOM option. Turn off all sheen or "shine" - turn off any sweat or wet/oil look. This needs to be actively done because the default is with an "oil sheen" I think.

After going through the HUD settings and manually turning off all effects, then set the BOM last. Be sure to be in calWL - it's the best windlight for matching colors of attachments, etc., so it also is the best windlight for looking at neck-seam removal efforts.

Part of the problem that no one can deal with also: Different wind lights *will* show the neck seam (even on your SLINK, albeit: barely) - this is because of the different creators (body versus head) - the only way to literally obliterate the neck seam is if both body and head creator are the same and it's a head-to-toe skin. I've seen (on very rare occasion, admittedly) where a body skin and head tattoo (for the head skin) can create a telltale seam as well.

I've purchased a professionally-made skin Master PSD file so I could tweak it and touch it up the way I want. And I ket seeing that darned seam! No matter what I did, it was always there. Then I used a different viewer and voila! That seam is *gone!* This is what reminded me about how touchy that seam is with the slightest difference in graphic settings

So, for me, the truest test for head/body neck seam (to see the true quality of the skin, actually) is to go into POSE mode, preferably in a sand box with little lag, set windlight to calWL and turn ALL graphic settings to *maximum* (Highest quality you can get) - frame rates may drop to 1- LOL BUT, you will see the truest quality of what you're looking at.

Also remember that anything we do regarding eliminating the neck seam only works for us in our own viewers, other people may still see the neck seam depending on their own graphic settings. 

Thanks again for your  help.

Following your instructions can get the seam to look ok in calWL:

https://gyazo.com/63c7411819e8b8501ee38cdeed9ba7c0

But it really breaks down if you don't use that windlight:

https://gyazo.com/9c05ce7a83ecb6b871cc752a542def30

There is some weird mismatch between Legacy and my Greer head.  It still feels like some layer isn't quite reset, but the Lelutka group thought that the Legacy body just wasn't designed quite right to eliminate a seam.  I couldn't figure out how to demo Genus in BoM mode (talk about a weird HUD), but the seam is also there with Catwa and newer Lelutka heads, so I think it is a Legacy issue.

I super appreciate your help.

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The Legacy body follows the Ruth standard and if the head doesn´t fully comply with this standard problems arise, this is Lelutka Andrea with male Legacy body and StrayDog skins on midday windlight and as you can see it´s almost perfect on the worst windlight of all. It's a bit visible from the front but I can live with that.

neck.png

Edited by Varistentia Varriale

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6 minutes ago, Kristie Lemon said:

Seams always look best from the side and back. :)

True but you will never get rid of it though, it's because it is two different mesh pieces and light bounces off their surfaces differently, only way is a body with a head attached to it.

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1 hour ago, Varistentia Varriale said:

True but you will never get rid of it though, it's because it is two different mesh pieces and light bounces off their surfaces differently, only way is a body with a head attached to it.

I get basically no seam between a Slink HG Redux body and my Greer head.  Certainly nothing like with Legacy.

https://gyazo.com/3a74224f5f8c82f807175d0faae48fff

And with legacy, same light and location, and skin and head, etc.

https://gyazo.com/e416eab54a63e35b2372d7326c3d3327

 

 

Edited by Kristie Lemon

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Everyone will have a different experience due to the sheer amount of variety in every computer system, viewer choice, graphic settings and all the rest. Neck seams are a fact of Mesh in SL. There's not much we can do about them and we've all complained about them. So, just saying there's no point in continuing the debate. This is a thread about the Legacy mesh body, so saying something works with X-brand and Y-brand combination but not with X-brand and Legacy is kind of a moot point.

Perhaps it would be better to create a "Neck Seam Suggested Solutions" thread in "Your Avatar" forum? Just a suggestion. :)

Edited by Alyona Su

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3 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Everyone will have a different experience due to the sheer amount of variety in every computer system, viewer choice, graphic settings and all the rest. Neck seams are a fact of Mesh in SL. There's not much we can do about them and we've all complained about them. So, just saying there's no point in continuing the debate. This is a thread about the Legacy mesh body, so saying something works with X-brand and Y-brand combination but not with X-brand and Legacy is kind of a moot point.

Perhaps it would be better to create a "Neck Seam Suggested Solutions" thread in "Your Avatar" forum? Just a suggestion. :)

It's weird to say that a discussion of which heads work in combination with a Legacy body doesn't belong in the Legacy body discussion.  I wasn't trying to debate.  I was trying to find a solution, even if it meant a different head.

I got the Genus Strong Face demo and a bunch of demo skins, and I still saw a seam.  I guess Legacy is less about eliminating a seam and more about tolerating it.

Frankly, my tests with most major head brands on Slink and Legacy bodies (and even a quick test with Belleza) suggest that neck seams are basically a fact of life only with Legacy bodies or if you choose to use a non-matching head/body skin.

Thanks.

Edited by Kristie Lemon
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9 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

Everyone will have a different experience due to the sheer amount of variety in every computer system, viewer choice, graphic settings and all the rest. Neck seams are a fact of Mesh in SL. There's not much we can do about them and we've all complained about them. So, just saying there's no point in continuing the debate. This is a thread about the Legacy mesh body, so saying something works with X-brand and Y-brand combination but not with X-brand and Legacy is kind of a moot point.

Perhaps it would be better to create a "Neck Seam Suggested Solutions" thread in "Your Avatar" forum? Just a suggestion. :)

I usually wear collars and chokers to hide mine. And then it goes away and doesn't bug the heck out of me.

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14 hours ago, halebore Aeon said:

I usually wear collars and chokers to hide mine. And then it goes away and doesn't bug the heck out of me.

I agree. And it doesn't;t even have to be a collar or choker, the right kind of any neck decoration does the job. Though I've since manged to eliminate my neck seam, I still wear this just for the style of it: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KC-CAILY-CHOKER-MAITREYA-BELLEZA-SLINK-SL-AVATAR/12856163 

I have something similar for my Legacy on my alt, this one I wear on my Belleza - but just wanted to show a style example here.

Edited by Alyona Su

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8 hours ago, Alyona Su said:

I agree. And it doesn't;t even have to be a collar or choker, the right kind of any neck decoration does the job. Though I've since manged to eliminate my neck seam, I still wear this just for the style of it: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/KC-CAILY-CHOKER-MAITREYA-BELLEZA-SLINK-SL-AVATAR/12856163 

I have something similar for my Legacy on my alt, this one I wear on my Belleza - but just wanted to show a style example here.

I would love to know what combo of Genus head, skin, and Legacy you are using that shows no neck seam. 

Thanks!

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Genus Babyface, Legacy, both set to Bakes on mesh, and a head-to-toe system layer skin and Black Dragon viewer (which has better dynamic range than the others, so truer colors without the harshness). Though even on Firestorm and Catznip, the seam isn;t there in most wind lights.

Edited by Alyona Su

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Just now, Alyona Su said:

Genus Babyface, Legacy, both set to Bakes on mesh, and a head-to-toe system layer skin and Black Dragon viewer (which has better dynamic range than the others, so truer colors without the harshness).

May I ask who the skin maker is? I totally understand if you don't want to say.  It's not easy to find good Genus BoM skin by just marketplace searches.

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8 minutes ago, Kristie Lemon said:

May I ask who the skin maker is? I totally understand if you don't want to say.  It's not easy to find good Genus BoM skin by just marketplace searches.

I had Deetalez and Session, then purchased a full permissions PSD and made my own. The one I did myself I created a full head-to-toe skin layer. The same with the Session (BOM only skin) - is full head to toe. The Deetalez is separate: skin for body and tattoo layer for head. So there will still be a very faint seam in some wind lights, but not all.

Edited by Alyona Su

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1 minute ago, Alyona Su said:

I had Deetalez and Session, then purchased a full permissions PSD and made my own. The one I did myself I created a full head-to-toe skin layer. The same with the Session (BOM only skin) - is full head to toe. The Deetalez is separate: skin for body and tattoo layer for head. So there will still be a very faint seam in some wind lights, but not all.

Thanks!  I will try Session (already had no luck with Deetalez demos on this issue).

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15 minutes ago, Kristie Lemon said:

Thanks!  I will try Session (already had no luck with Deetalez demos on this issue).

With Session, it will be the newest BOM only skins - try those demos and set windlight to calWL for best studio lighting. You also may beed to turn up graphics to Ultra on all sliders where they apply, at least temporarily. The reason is because that seam always will be there whether we see it or not because the head is actually a separate texture (so is the torso separate from the pelvis and legs - so there's also a seam at the belt line that most people *never* notice! Baahahaha!) Thus, the trick is to hide it as best as possible. :)

And remember also to turn off all effects of Legacy.

Edited by Alyona Su

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Just realized that this Legacy body I've been seeing referred to is some upgrade from TMP.  On investigation it seems they would want me to lay out another 2500L to upgrade from my old TMP.  I am a year moved on from TMP, now very happy in a much more mainstream environment.  The only thing I miss about TMP is a slightly better boob shape.  Apart from that, their HUDs were a nightmare and customer service, after they had milked the SL community for as much as they could get, pretty much just disappeared.  Not even the most basic enquiries were EVER answered.

I hear various stories these days about how things have changed, customer service is said to be better - for now.  (It was ok last time, to start with, I was told, but by the time I got it, at the tail end, it was already just not happening)

As for lifetime upgrades - they don't exist with this lot.  They want another 2500L for an upgrade.  My new body gives them out for free.

If you trust this outfit with your money you might be happy for a time, but don't be surprised if the same happens once they've made a new packet of money and you have struggle for service once again.  Only time will tell.  But they won't get me again, that's for sure.

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On 1/15/2020 at 2:34 AM, Blake1111Coverdale said:

...this legacy body has many drawbacks of which I will mention a few.  Number 1... NO SUPPORT !!  If you do decide to buy this body male or female, just know support is non existant.  They have a support group that will attack you for asking a question and maybe one of your attackers will tell you to contact the CSR named LiveHelp.  If you contact the CSR by that name, you will never hear from them ever.  You spend 5 grand on a mesh body girl or guy, there should be proper support available always like with Signature, Maitreya and Catwa groups. ...

Wow, just reading back through the thread after I made my post, and I find actually nothing has in fact changed re their support.  That's exactly what used to happen - you'd never hear back from that anonymous faceless LiveHelp avatar.  I'm surprised to hear with their new upgrades that that is still happening.  Reinforces what I said above.  *sigh*

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1 hour ago, CassiaChiu said:

Wow, just reading back through the thread after I made my post, and I find actually nothing has in fact changed re their support.  That's exactly what used to happen - you'd never hear back from that anonymous faceless LiveHelp avatar.  I'm surprised to hear with their new upgrades that that is still happening.  Reinforces what I said above.  *sigh*

I have a lot of mesh bodies, for my preference, Belleza still has the best breast and leg shapes of all of them. Of course that's my own preference. As for support: this is SL, if you need support for anything (very rare except in odd cases) the user community is where you should go and that includes every other mesh body, including Maitreya.

As for the legacy, you are correct that it is a new product from them. I agree that the HUD is abysmal, but I couldn't care less as there's no reason to wear the HUD for anything other than initial set-up or resetting the once-in-a-while errant alpha-cut due to region lag. There is no reason whatsoever to continuously wear it otherwise (and I believe this to be true for all mesh bodies.)

I have the Legacy on my alt and I like it. it really is a highly-detailed, great-looking body. Though I don't have the Belleza on that account so I stay with the Legacy as it's the best-looking among all of them for my tastes, save Belleza. I didn;t get Lagacy on this account because I have every other body and I am always, returning to my Belleza.

Here is one thing I am noticing very quickly and frequently (in Marketplace and every event I've been to this month): Many creators who were exclusively only Maitreya are now exclusively Maitreya and Legacy only. I am seeing this more and more everywhere I go. So the new Legacy seems to be quickly moving into the number two spot for creator support. It's not there yet, to be sure, but seems to be on the fast-track toward that status; it is the most-added-to-the-line-up for most creators. As awesome as the Signature Alice is: nada in terms of mass--support, which is sad, really, because that's a really good mesh body, too.

Edited by Alyona Su

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3 hours ago, CassiaChiu said:

Wow, just reading back through the thread after I made my post, and I find actually nothing has in fact changed re their support.  That's exactly what used to happen - you'd never hear back from that anonymous faceless LiveHelp avatar.  I'm surprised to hear with their new upgrades that that is still happening.  Reinforces what I said above.  *sigh*

They have a support team https://www.meshbody.com/support (scroll down) also the livehelp group is very active.

Edited by Varistentia Varriale

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33 minutes ago, Varistentia Varriale said:
4 hours ago, CassiaChiu said:

Wow, just reading back through the thread after I made my post, and I find actually nothing has in fact changed re their support.  That's exactly what used to happen - you'd never hear back from that anonymous faceless LiveHelp avatar.  I'm surprised to hear with their new upgrades that that is still happening.  Reinforces what I said above.  *sigh*

They have a support team https://www.meshbody.com/support (scroll down) also the livehelp group is very active.

"One cannot plan the future on events of the past."

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Well I've just been over to the TMP store...…..WHAT?????????

I'm not the brightest with IT, but when I eventually discovered you needed a hud, I still couldn't make it work and I couldn't get access to anything.

HOW do they sell anything there????? Unbelievable.

Rant Over.

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